Is Being Born-Again Irrelevant?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What is the matter with you?

beats me....

But I can tell you that if you come to this website and start reading the many new posts before you log-on...and see something and hit "REPLY", that this website will then take you right away to the log-on area where you will enter your name and p*** word as normal...But what i have just learned over the last year is that the next thing that will happen is that it will take you to the page that will allow you to REPLY, even if you did not know that the post you are replying to is written by someone on your IGNORE list.


This means that even if you did not relies it at the time, you can reply to posts that are normally on your ignore list...all without knowing it at all.


This does not mean that you are now replying the posts of people on your IGNORE list.
It's just a weird little computer glitch,,,

So from time to time I do end up replying to guys like BILLY or ErkErk Sir etc, that are on my ignore list.

I consider such times just my little 'gift' to the unfortunate ones that earned their spot on my list....

Oh i know that we have seen this one guy get all excited and jump up and down at this....
But I just smile....

As for what is wrong with him?......Thats not my field, but you are correct to ask such a question...

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post----Regardless of what people claim--here is the doctrine that Christ taught:


John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Originally Posted by Billyray View Post---Who is good according to Christ?

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---And how are you relating that to the fact that the Bible records Christ's testimony as all being judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?

Originally Posted by Billyray

Simple. If you take Jesus at his word that none of us are good then you will realized that our rigtheousness comes from the imputed righteousness of Christ--not our own righteousness based on our works.

Again--how are you relating that to the fact that all will be judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?

Is this an attempt to convey the cover and cancel program of the faith alone? Your theology somehow cancels out the truths taught by Jesus Christ? What is it about what Jesus taught we do not believe?

John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Again--how are you relating that to the fact that all will be judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?

Is this an attempt to convey the cover and cancel program of the faith alone? Your theology somehow cancels out the truths taught by Jesus Christ? What is it about what Jesus taught we do not believe?

John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Where does it say in John 5 that "all will be judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?"

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post----Again--how are you relating that to the fact that all will be judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?

Is this an attempt to convey the cover and cancel program of the faith alone? Your theology somehow cancels out the truths taught by Jesus Christ? What is it about what Jesus taught we do not believe?

John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Where does it say in John 5 that "all will be judged according to works---

they that have done good,----and they that have done evil,

--after death--

all that are in the graves

and that for life or ****ation?"

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

[TrueBlue?]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What do you want...a tissue?



Erik crossed the line with me...
I warned him....
I warned him and warned him, but he would not listen and so I put him on ignore...

But thats all I did too.

The story ended there.

I didnt have to attack him personally,
I didnt have to respond to him.
I didn't have to say another word to him, or about him...

He no longer appeared on my screen, so he did not exist as far as I was concerned.

I never gave him another thought after I added him to the list.

And thats the thing I want to point out now...
Thats the beauty of adding trouble makers to your ignore list and why I always suggest it for anyone that is having a problem with another member of the form...because it ENDS the problem!

Boom!....end of story,

Is that not so much better than the endless arguing and the endless bickering?

So I did the right thing.

I added his name to the list and I never saw another word he posted, nor did I ever bother to respond to another one of his rants.......

In other words...the ignore list worked like a CHARM!

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.


Mar_11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your tresp***es.



Just saying......

[TrueBlue?]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What do you want...a tissue?



Erik crossed the line with me...
I warned him....
I warned him and warned him, but he would not listen and so I put him on ignore...

But thats all I did too.

The story ended there.

I didnt have to attack him personally,
I didnt have to respond to him.
I didn't have to say another word to him, or about him...

He no longer appeared on my screen, so he did not exist as far as I was concerned.

I never gave him another thought after I added him to the list.

And thats the thing I want to point out now...
Thats the beauty of adding trouble makers to your ignore list and why I always suggest it for anyone that is having a problem with another member of the form...because it ENDS the problem!

Boom!....end of story,

Is that not so much better than the endless arguing and the endless bickering?

So I did the right thing.

I added his name to the list and I never saw another word he posted, nor did I ever bother to respond to another one of his rants.......

In other words...the ignore list worked like a CHARM!

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Luk 17:4 And if he tresp*** against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Just saying...........

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

they that have done good,----and they that have done evil,

all that are in the graves

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

The verses that you quoted never says the basis for heaven and hell is works yet you quote these verses and ***ume that it does say that. And at the same time you ignore many other verses that tell us that salvation is by grace through faith and not by works.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post----Again--how are you relating that to the fact that all will be judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation?

Is this an attempt to convey the cover and cancel program of the faith alone? Your theology somehow cancels out the truths taught by Jesus Christ? What is it about what Jesus taught we do not believe?

John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View PostWhere does it say in John 5 that "all will be judged according to works---

dberrie----"they that have done good,----and they that have done evil",

Billyray-----after death--

dberrie---"all that are in the graves"

Billyray---and that for life or ****ation?"

dberrie---"they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation."

Originally Posted by Billyray

The verses that you quoted never says the basis for heaven and hell is works

It states all will be judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation--just what I postulated in my opening post above.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

It states all will be judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation--just what I postulated in my opening post above.

It doesn't say that in those verses and if it did that would mean that the NT contradicts itself and could not be trusted. DB you pick a few verses and read things into the verses and then throw out many other verses that you don't like and as long as you do that you will remain lost.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---It states all will be judged according to works--after death--and that for life or ****ation--just what I postulated in my opening post above.

Originally Posted by Billyray

It doesn't say that in those verses

Yes it does:


John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Yes it does:


John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

db, have you done good, and how do you know?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by TrueBlue?

Luk 17:4 And if he tresp*** against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Just saying...........

internet bulling has to have a response that is firm, or people will expect to be able to get away with anything , saying anything, doing any hurtful thing they want, and when someone else tries to put a stop to it they turn out to be the ones thought of by others as in the wrong?....

Typical.....



I believe strongly that when any of us on a forum such as this runs into some poster that simply does not play by the rules, that in addition to contacting the MODs that we should make use of the IGNORE setting to end all future trouble with the offenders.

the IGNORE setting allows you to never again need to worry that the other person was rude, used bad words, used bad manners, or made personal attacks...

The IGNORE setting ends the problem.

It's over.....it finished....You dont have to deal with the same situation over and over and over...


I think TrueBlue that you should really consider that my approach is by far the best approach to take on the internet in general.

My approach is a real Christ-like way to handle situations on a forum like this.

My approach does not fail.....it always works....it has a 100% success rate for ending conflict.



This Walter Martin forum has gotten a reputation over the last year or so of being a place where the MOD simply was not paying much attention to what was going on.

While this has changed within the last few months (as I have see Kevin popping in a lot more now as of late), , for the most part the only means people had to control what was being posted here was the use of the IGNORE setting, or.....fighting back in kind,,,bad word for bad word,,,,spit for spit....


But by my own rare use of the IGNORE setting I was able to fully control the posters that I allowed to have their words appear on my computer screen.

I think a lot of people think that just by coming here that this somehow gives them the 'right" to post here whatever they want, and that the rest of us have to allow them this "right"

Well it dont!

You dont have any "right" to post here.
You dont have any such right to have your words pop up on my computer...

When we all have the ability to clear posts forever off of our screens, it reminds us that we have only the "privilege" to post here....

If you post something on the forum, I grant you the 'privilege' to have your words on my computer screen.

But if i believe you have abused yourself here?....then by the use of the IGNORE setting I can take away your "privilege' to have your words seen.


By my making sure you understand that I use my IGNORE setting to ban you from my computer, this should tend to help you find the right tone for your posts.

Because you have heard that once you get on my IGNORE list after 2 or 3 warnings, you are on it for good!



I have only had to use the IGNORE setting on 2 or 3 people.
Each time i gave the person way more 2nd chances than they were due.
I warned each person on my IGNORE list that there would be consequences to their actions, but in each case they simply dont give a rip.....
or they did not believe me,
or did not believe i would ban them forever, as most people give-in after a short time.

Well.....they know better now.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Yes it does:

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Where does that they will be "judged according to works". . ."for life or ****ation"?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Yes it does:


John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

db, have you done good, and how do you know?

I'm happy to let God judge that--that is who it rightfully belongs to. Not you nor me--but God.

But could I ask you a question? How does that somehow effect the fact the scriptures show all will be judged according to their works--and that for life or ****ation?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I'm happy to let God judge that-

He already has judged that and the answer is no you are not good. Only God is good.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Yes it does:


John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post--db, have you done good, and how do you know?

dberrie---I'm happy to let God judge that--that is who it rightfully belongs to. Not you nor me--but God.

But could I ask you a question? How does that somehow effect the fact the scriptures show all will be judged according to their works--and that for life or ****ation?

Originally Posted by Billyray

He already has judged that and the answer is no you are not good. Only God is good.

The scriptures state this judgment will take place after death--and a judgment of works--those who have done good--unto the resurrection of life. Could you explain how replacing that with your personal theology somehow changes the scriptures?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

The scriptures state this judgment will take place after death--and a judgment of works--those who have done good--unto the resurrection of life. Could you explain how replacing that with your personal theology somehow changes the scriptures?

Sure I would be happy to try and explain it to you but unfortunately you will likely not listen. Jesus clearly said that nobody is good besides God alone. If what he said was true then are you good based on your works? What is the basis for your righteousness according to the NT?

[dberrie2000]

dberrie----riginally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Yes it does:


John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

The scriptures state this judgment will take place after death--and a judgment of works--those who have done good--unto the resurrection of life. Could you explain how replacing that with your personal theology somehow changes the scriptures?

Originally Posted by Billyray

Sure I would be happy to try and explain it to you but unfortunately you will likely not listen. Jesus clearly said that nobody is good besides God alone.

Could you explain for us how your rationalizations negates what Christ has stated--that all will be judged according to works--and that for life or ****ation--after this life?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could you explain for us how your rationalizations negates what Christ has stated--

I am not negating what Christ said rather I am negating your false ***umptions.


Christ said that nobody is good besides God alone. Do you agree with that part so far?

[dberrie2000]

dberrie----Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Yes it does:


John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

The scriptures state this judgment will take place after death--and a judgment of works--those who have done good--unto the resurrection of life. Could you explain how replacing that with your personal theology somehow changes the scriptures?

Originally Posted by Billyray View PostSure I would be happy to try and explain it to you but unfortunately you will likely not listen. Jesus clearly said that nobody is good besides God alone.

dberrie---Could you explain for us how your rationalizations negates what Christ has stated--that all will be judged according to works--and that for life or ****ation--after this life?

Originally Posted by Billyray

I am not negating what Christ said rather I am negating your false ***umptions.

What part of-- they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; --do you consider false?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

What part of-- they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; --do you consider false?

Your ***umption of who you think is good and the basis for their goodness is what Is in error, not the verse.

Mark 10:18*“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

According to Christ who is good?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

John 5:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

The scriptures state this judgment will take place after death--and a judgment of works--those who have done good--unto the resurrection of life. Could you explain how replacing that with your personal theology somehow changes the scriptures?

I agree with you that both believers and unbelievers will have their works judged. But can you show me in your proof text where it says that works is the basis for salvation for believers because I don't see that in the verses above.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I agree with you that both believers and unbelievers will have their works judged.

You are right--and the scriptures have this as the result of those works:

John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.



Either life or ****ation.

But can you show me in your proof text where it says that works is the basis for salvation for believers because I don't see that in the verses above.

Works is the basis for either receiving His grace to life--or ****ation. What is it about John5:28-29 we are not understanding?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

You are right--and the scriptures have this as the result of those works:

John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.



Either life or ****ation.




Works is the basis for either receiving His grace to life--or ****ation. What is it about John5:28-29 we are not understanding?

But just like the definition of Eternal life mormonism has added a new definition to ****ation.. In mormonism a person can enter God's presence and still receive ****ation.. That is a wild doctrine but never the less the teaching of mormonism..

In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.’ (D&C 131:1–4.)
He cannot have an increase! He cannot have exaltation!
The Lord says further in the 132nd section of the Doctrine and Covenants:
No one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory’ (D&C 132:4).
No one! It matters not how righteous they may have been, how intelligent or how well trained they are. No one will enter this highest glory unless he enters into the covenant, and this means the new and everlasting covenant of marriage. (Spencer W. Kimball, “The Importance of Celestial Marriage,” Ensign, Oct. 1979, pp. 5–6.)

By this we can see that even in the presence of God within the Celestial kingdom, those who gain the first two levels are ****ed.. Does this show that mormonism teaches a different definition of ****ation than the Bible.. YES!! Of that there is no doubt.. IHS jim

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---You are right--and the scriptures have this as the result of those works:

John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

Either life or ****ation.

Works is the basis for either receiving His grace to life--or ****ation. What is it about John5:28-29 we are not understanding?

Originally Posted by James Banta

But just like the definition of Eternal life mormonism has added a new definition to ****ation.. In mormonism a person can enter God's presence and still receive ****ation.. That is a wild doctrine but never the less the teaching of mormonism..

And one that is not true. To live in the presence of God--one must not receive ****ation.

In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.’ (D&C 131:1–4.)
He cannot have an increase! He cannot have exaltation!
The Lord says further in the 132nd section of the Doctrine and Covenants:
No one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory’ (D&C 132:4).
No one! It matters not how righteous they may have been, how intelligent or how well trained they are. No one will enter this highest glory unless he enters into the covenant, and this means the new and everlasting covenant of marriage. (Spencer W. Kimball, “The Importance of Celestial Marriage,” Ensign, Oct. 1979, pp. 5–6.)

By this we can see that even in the presence of God within the Celestial kingdom, those who gain the first two levels are ****ed.. Does this show that mormonism teaches a different definition of ****ation than the Bible.. YES!! Of that there is no doubt.. IHS jim

And if one enters into any level with the exception of eternal life----one does live in the presence of God.