Repentance

[Sir]

Since I was kind of bored tonight, I thought I would take James Banta's conjecture (in red) and his issues with LDS repentance and add a little commentary with my questions to YOU, the non-LDS here:

Originally Posted by James Banta

The sinner must have "Sorrow for Sin"

Doesn't seem like a problem. If one is to repent of their sins they must feel a genuine sense of sorrow, an understanding of what they did that was an offense to God. To be healed from sickness one must first recognize they are sick.

What is wrong with this step according to you non-LDS?

Originally Posted by James Banta

Then "Confess" the sin. If it's minor God can handle it but if it's a big sin like adultery you have to tell a man..

Yes, we must confess our sins to God so He can forgive us. When LDS confess more grave sins (like adultry, as James knows about quite well) to the church leaders, it is not in order to receive any type of forgiveness since they have not the power to forgive. It is to receive their guidance and help in returning to the path of God and being an upstanding member of the church of God here on earth.

What is wrong with this step according to non-LDS?

Originally Posted by James Banta

You have to stop sinning "Abandon Sin". No one has ever done this so my guess is that not a single mormon ever dies with a clean conscience.

If someone is to repent of adultry (James), then it makes perfect sense that true repentance requires that the person refrain from committing adultry again. When you repented of your adultry, James, did you quit doing it? Or are you of the opinion that one can simply ask for forgiveness of adultry on Friday and then go out and do it again on Sa****ay and then ask God for forgieness again in Sunday, only to go do it again on Monday?

That you claim "no one has ever abandoned sin" is a gross misrepresentation and misunderstanding on your part of the principle of repentance and forgiveness.

What is wrong with the idea of stopping the sin that is being repented of according to non-LDS?

Originally Posted by James Banta

The sinner MUST make Res***ution.. How do you make res***ution for murder or adultery?

When we repent, we need to correct the wrong. If I steal a bike from my neighbor, I am not truly repenting if I simply ask for God's forgiveness and then continue riding my newly ill-gotten bike in front of my neighbor's house.

Some sins cannot be restored, as James suggests, which is why we always need the atonement of Jesus. His atonement paid the price of our sins and it is through His atonement that the payment for the res***ution is made.

What is wrong with the principle of righting a wrong as part of our repentance process according to the non-LDS?

Originally Posted by James Banta

You must change your ways to "Righteous Living".. Again no one has ever done this so again not mormon can be saved..

When one truly seeks reprentance, they do so with a spirit of wanting to follow God better, to become more like Him. That requires that we change aspects of our lifestyle in order to conform more to the path that God wants us to follow. If I repent of frequenting strip clubs, I am not truly repentant if I do not change my lifestyle and stop going to those strip clubs.

What is wrong with the principle of changing your lifestyle to be more righteous as part of the repentance process according to the non-LDS?

[jdjhere]

Sir- We get what you are saying here and I for one would be happy to dialogue with you but have in the past and it went nowhere. Just let me make a point- when you attack someone personally about a sin they may (or may not have) committed, all it does is make your self-righteous at***ude even more apparent. Don't cast stones, especially in public, before you straighten up your own house.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

Sir- We get what you are saying here and I for one would be happy to dialogue with you but have in the past and it went nowhere.

Fair enough. Feel free to remove yourself from the thread then.

Just let me make a point- when you attack someone personally about a sin they may (or may not have) committed, all it does is make your self-righteous at***ude even more apparent. Don't cast stones, especially in public, before you straighten up your own house.

We are all sinners. Using someone's experience with a sin (since they were the ones the brought up that particular sin) isn't really an attack. It's common knowledge here that James was once an adulterer. Since he is open about that and since we are talking about repentance, it is apropros to using that in order to help paint the picture that James is trying to convey about the principles of true repentance.

I appreciate your attempt at preaching not to cast stones while simultaneously calling me self-righteous. No irony there. None.

[James Banta]

[Sir;140047]Since I was kind of bored tonight, I thought I would take James Banta's conjecture (in red) and his issues with LDS repentance and add a little commentary with my questions to YOU, the non-LDS here:

Doesn't seem like a problem. If one is to repent of their sins they must feel a genuine sense of sorrow, an understanding of what they did that was an offense to God. To be healed from sickness one must first recognize they are sick.

What is wrong with this step according to you non-LDS?

The problem isn't having sorrow for sin. The problem is believing that you don't find sorrow for being a sinner in the first place.. We all have sinned and we continue to sin daily and yet LDS don't seem to have sorrow for that but instead try to take sins they "Feel" one at a time and go through their repentance process..

Yes, we must confess our sins to God so He can forgive us. When LDS confess more grave sins (like adultry, as James knows about quite well) to the church leaders, it is not in order to receive any type of forgiveness since they have not the power to forgive. It is to receive their guidance and help in returning to the path of God and being an upstanding member of the church of God here on earth.

What is wrong with this step according to non-LDS?

What is wrong is the fact that you are not willing to confess that you are a sinner and have God deal with your sin completely.. You were born naturally and without a new birth a spiritual birth you have not confessed your place before God. That of a sinner His enemy..

If someone is to repent of adultry (James), then it makes perfect sense that true repentance requires that the person refrain from committing adultry again. When you repented of your adultry, James, did you quit doing it? Or are you of the opinion that one can simply ask for forgiveness of adultry on Friday and then go out and do it again on Sa****ay and then ask God for forgieness again in Sunday, only to go do it again on Monday?

That you claim "no one has ever abandoned sin" is a gross misrepresentation and misunderstanding on your part of the principle of repentance and forgiveness.

What is wrong with the idea of stopping the sin that is being repented of according to non-LDS?

What is wrong with this.. The fact that once you have repented to God and turned to Him He has made you a new creation.. That new creation is in the image of Jesus and is 100% pure.. There is no sin in it at all.. Yes the flesh is still there but it is no longer the person that commits sin but sin that is still there in their flesh (Romans 7:17-20).. You know that after you go through this process of LDS repentance that you still go back and commit the same sin again and again.. I am sorry but this is the nature of the beast. This is why Jesus came to be righteousness for us, because in ourselves there is no power to do righteousnesses.. To say we are or even that we can be is the pinnacle of SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS just like the Pharisees..

So what is wrong with this point of LDS repentance? It doesn't correct the problem within us.. We sin and sin and sin again.. Over and over the same old thing and that is rebellion against God..

When we repent, we need to correct the wrong. If I steal a bike from my neighbor, I am not truly repenting if I simply ask for God's forgiveness and then continue riding my newly ill-gotten bike in front of my neighbor's house.

Some sins cannot be restored, as James suggests, which is why we always need the atonement of Jesus. His atonement paid the price of our sins and it is through His atonement that the payment for the res***ution is made.

What is wrong with the principle of righting a wrong as part of our repentance process according to the non-LDS?

I am glade you have seen that Jesus is the ONLY way to have atonement made for our sin. What does the Bible teach as who we sin against even when it hurts others? So what is wrong with this point of LDS repentance. It doesn't deal with our sin, any of it..

Psalm 51 3:-4
For I know my transgressions, And my sin is ever before me.
Against You, You only, I have sinned. And done what is evil in Your sight,
So that You are justified when You speak. And blameless when You judge.

The ONLY atonement that can be made is that which Jesus made.. Merely restoring what a person steals is NOT enough.. The law calls for blood when a person breaks the Law. James tells us that breaking one point of the law makes us guilty of breaking the whole of the law.

So what is wrong with this point of LDS repentance.. IT doesn't make up for (atone) for the wrong done.. That is what is wrong with it..

When one truly seeks reprentance, they do so with a spirit of wanting to follow God better, to become more like Him. That requires that we change aspects of our lifestyle in order to conform more to the path that God wants us to follow. If I repent of frequenting strip clubs, I am not truly repentant if I do not change my lifestyle and stop going to those strip clubs.

What is wrong with the principle of changing your lifestyle to be more righteous as part of the repentance process according to the non-LDS?

This condition of LDS repentance doesn't have one thing to do with the process of sanctification. It is stated that the repentant person loves the rest of their love sinless.. NOT ONCE HAS THIS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED BY ANY ONE OF YOU EVER. This wasn't even done by the apostle Paul (Romans 7:19).. How can you sit here and tell us you are greater in your spiritual life than he? And yet this is a step in LDS repentance and by it I can clearly state that not one of you has ever repented on one single sin in your life.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Fair enough. Feel free to remove yourself from the thread then.



We are all sinners. Using someone's experience with a sin (since they were the ones the brought up that particular sin) isn't really an attack. It's common knowledge here that James was once an adulterer. Since he is open about that and since we are talking about repentance, it is apropros to using that in order to help paint the picture that James is trying to convey about the principles of true repentance.

I appreciate your attempt at preaching not to cast stones while simultaneously calling me self-righteous. No irony there. None.

My repentance to God included ALL my sin.. I didn't take them one at a time as the LDS do.. There is no way I could be ***ured that I wouldn't have missed a few and since NO UNCLEAN THING CAN ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD I would be denied a place with Him in His Kingdom.. Instead I confessed my sin and He (God) is faithful and just to forgive my sin and cleanse me of ALL unrighteousness.. So what did I do about it? Nothing He did it all.. He broke my heart, showing me the poverty of my spirit and my sin. He put the sorrow for that sin within me. He showed me humility before His greatness. He places in me a hunger for Him, a desire to be filled by His Spirit again and again.. A need to help others always pointing to Him as the source for anything that He does through me. Allowing Him access to my heart to recreate me in the image of Jesus have the ***urance of standing in His presences at the end of my days without question in my mind..

Anyone that tells me that They DO any on this is waving a flag of self righteousness in my face and it is disgusting.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Since I was kind of bored tonight, I thought I would take James Banta's conjecture (in red) and his issues with LDS repentance and add a little commentary with my questions to YOU, the non-LDS here:



Doesn't seem like a problem. If one is to repent of their sins they must feel a genuine sense of sorrow, an understanding of what they did that was an offense to God. To be healed from sickness one must first recognize they are sick.

What is wrong with this step according to you non-LDS?



Yes, we must confess our sins to God so He can forgive us. When LDS confess more grave sins (like adultry, as James knows about quite well) to the church leaders, it is not in order to receive any type of forgiveness since they have not the power to forgive. It is to receive their guidance and help in returning to the path of God and being an upstanding member of the church of God here on earth.

What is wrong with this step according to non-LDS?



If someone is to repent of adultry (James), then it makes perfect sense that true repentance requires that the person refrain from committing adultry again. When you repented of your adultry, James, did you quit doing it? Or are you of the opinion that one can simply ask for forgiveness of adultry on Friday and then go out and do it again on Sa****ay and then ask God for forgieness again in Sunday, only to go do it again on Monday?

That you claim "no one has ever abandoned sin" is a gross misrepresentation and misunderstanding on your part of the principle of repentance and forgiveness.

What is wrong with the idea of stopping the sin that is being repented of according to non-LDS?



When we repent, we need to correct the wrong. If I steal a bike from my neighbor, I am not truly repenting if I simply ask for God's forgiveness and then continue riding my newly ill-gotten bike in front of my neighbor's house.

Some sins cannot be restored, as James suggests, which is why we always need the atonement of Jesus. His atonement paid the price of our sins and it is through His atonement that the payment for the res***ution is made.

What is wrong with the principle of righting a wrong as part of our repentance process according to the non-LDS?




When one truly seeks reprentance, they do so with a spirit of wanting to follow God better, to become more like Him. That requires that we change aspects of our lifestyle in order to conform more to the path that God wants us to follow. If I repent of frequenting strip clubs, I am not truly repentant if I do not change my lifestyle and stop going to those strip clubs.

What is wrong with the principle of changing your lifestyle to be more righteous as part of the repentance process according to the non-LDS?

To quote Jesus of the Holy Bible, "don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing."
My sins are no man's business. God of the Holy Bible knows how many hairs are on my head, so I have nothing to hid. Wait, there was this one time while I was in Atlanta..........

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

Sir- We get what you are saying here and I for one would be happy to dialogue with you but have in the past and it went nowhere. Just let me make a point- when you attack someone personally about a sin they may (or may not have) committed, all it does is make your self-righteous at***ude even more apparent. Don't cast stones, especially in public, before you straighten up your own house.

I know you will agree with me that who ever says that they have no sin is a liar and the truth in not in them.. This is what I hear from the LDS here and everywhere. That they don't have sin in them. That they are by nature good. That the few times in their life that they do din they go through the steps I listed on another thread.. They can be forgiven of almost any sin but if a Christian sins and they find out about it they make it their life's work to drag it up again and again..

Yes I sinned and committed adultery. I was totally in myself having had walked away from God. Then I came to see that sin and the Holy Spirit convicted me and brought me back to the cross where I saw what my sin had caused in the suffering of my Lord.. I accepted His sacrifice for my sin and thanked Him for His grace..

Since that day I have failed again and again in many ways and in differing ways.. It doesn't matter I still fail but as Paul said it is no longer I, but sin that lives within me.. He continues to work in me conforming me to the image of Jesus but unlike many He has a lit of work to do to get me where He wants me to be.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

To quote Jesus of the Holy Bible, "don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing."
My sins are no man's business. God of the Holy Bible knows how many hairs are on my head, so I have nothing to hid. Wait, there was this one time while I was in Atlanta..........

May God bless you as He works within you to change you into the image of His Son.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I know you will agree with me that who ever says that they have no sin is a liar and the truth in not in them.. This is what I hear from the LDS here and everywhere. That they don't have sin in them. That they are by nature good. That the few times in their life that they do din they go through the steps I listed on another thread..

You know, sometimes I wonder about your ability to perceive and understand LDS, even to the point that I wonder if you were really once LDS.

Mosiah 3:19

19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

It is in our scripture that the natural man is an enemy to God.

[RealFakeHair]

Mosiah 3:19

19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam,(our mormon god and the only one we have to do with) and will be, forever and ever,(or unless the present LDS prophet over rules this.) unless he yields to the enticings of the (LDS- Holy Spirit), and putteth off the natural man (unless it was Joseph Smith jr, or Brigham Young, who could just bout do anything under the sun.)and becometh a saint, through the atonement of Christ the Lord, of all and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him,( especially payment to the LDS inc. in form of a ***he) even as a child doth submit to his father.
(but only a LDS in good standing with a recommend father, all other fathers, forget about it!)It is in our scripture that the natural man is an enemy to God.[/QUOTE]
This is the way it reads in reformed egyptian.

[jdjhere]

JamesBanta stated: "Yes I sinned and committed adultery. I was totally in myself having had walked away from God. Then I came to see that sin and the Holy Spirit convicted me and brought me back to the cross where I saw what my sin had caused in the suffering of my Lord.. I accepted His sacrifice for my sin and thanked Him for His grace.."

Well JamesBanta, Jesus said if you even LOOK at a woman with lust in your heart that you are guilty, so guess what? Every guy here in this WM forum, at one time or another is his life, is GUILTY, including Sir. As males, our flesh is weak and that is part of the battle.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Since that day I have failed again and again in many ways and in differing ways.. It doesn't matter I still fail but as Paul said it is no longer I, but sin that lives within me.. He continues to work in me conforming me to the image of Jesus but unlike many He has a lit of work to do to get me where He wants me to be.. IHS jim

Maybe you could explain what this means. What do you mean that it is no longer YOU that sins, but sin that lives within you. If you go out and shoot someone, it really isn't you that is sinning?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

JamesBanta stated: "Yes I sinned and committed adultery. I was totally in myself having had walked away from God. Then I came to see that sin and the Holy Spirit convicted me and brought me back to the cross where I saw what my sin had caused in the suffering of my Lord.. I accepted His sacrifice for my sin and thanked Him for His grace.."

Well JamesBanta, Jesus said if you even LOOK at a woman with lust in your heart that you are guilty, so guess what? Every guy here in this WM forum, at one time or another is his life, is GUILTY, including Sir. As males, our flesh is weak and that is part of the battle.

So according to JD's interpretation of the Bible, to think of a sin is the same as to act on it. There is no difference in gravity or severity.

I think this and the other line of thinking brought up in this thread about "It's not me that is sinning but the sin that is in me", are reasons that these Christians are so quick to shrug off sins as being no big deal. They simply believe that since they are "saved", nothing they do will affect that salvation, not even sins, so if you mess up and sin, it's no big deal because it isn't YOUR fault you are sinning because YOu are perfect in Jesus. It's simply that pesky sin that is inside you that is doing the bad stuff. "The devil made me do it" at***ude. And also this idea that, well, I've already thought about doing it so it is no different then if I actually DO commit it, so why not?

That is a problematic position for Christians because it actually mocks God and Jesus' atonement.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Since that day I have failed again and again in many ways and in differing ways.. It doesn't matter I still fail but as Paul said it is no longer I, but sin that lives within me.. He continues to work in me conforming me to the image of Jesus but unlike many He has a lit of work to do to get me where He wants me to be.. IHS jim

This sounds like you are simply a robot that is waiting for the next program to be executed. You only sin because of the sin that is programmed in you. You are not in the image of Jesus yet because Jesus hasn't programmed you to be where He wants you yet.

Yours is a gospel of blaming everything other than yourself for all that is right and all that is wrong. When you pretend that nothing you do is your fault and your postion with Jesus is not your fault or doing, it makes it so much easier to simply exist in i g n o r a n t bliss because you have everyone else to blame for your condition except yourself.

Yours is a sad interpretation of the gospel.

[Sir]

jdjhere,

Since you have chosen to go ahead and contribute to this thread, what are your positions to the bolded questions in the OP? What is your position on each of the points of repentance that James conjectured upon? Are the LDS positions acceptable? Why or why not?

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by Sir

Yours is a gospel of blaming everything other than yourself for all that is right and all that is wrong. When you pretend that nothing you do is your fault and your postion with Jesus is not your fault or doing, it makes it so much easier to simply exist in i g n o r a n t bliss because you have everyone else to blame for your condition except yourself.

Placing the blame is exactly the reason this is all so confusing. They say it is not them that sins, but the sin in them. Then why the need to repent? Why does God need to work on them if they aren't the one sinning? I just don't get this line of thinking.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

You know, sometimes I wonder about your ability to perceive and understand LDS, even to the point that I wonder if you were really once LDS.

Mosiah 3:19

19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

It is in our scripture that the natural man is an enemy to God.

Why do we need to understand LDS? Its already been proven the mormon jesus was a man, married and fathered children. This isn't an attack, it's what the lds church taught.

Of course the natural man is an enmity of God. That's why you must be born again.

[jdjhere]

Sir stated: "jdjhere,

Since you have chosen to go ahead and contribute to this thread, what are your positions to the bolded questions in the OP? What is your position on each of the points of repentance that James conjectured upon? Are the LDS positions acceptable? Why or why not?

1. The sinner must have "Sorrow for Sin"
Of course. You have to recognize it IS sin and be sorry that you have sinned against God.
2. Then "Confess" the sin.
Of course. We need to confess that what we have done and deal with it and repent.
3. You have to stop sinning "Abandon Sin".
Of course. We need to repent of the sin (turn away from) and do our best NOT to sin anymore.
4. The sinner MUST make Res***ution.
Of course. If we have injured anybody (physically OR mentally) we need to try to make the wrong right again, then #5…
5. You must change your ways to "Righteous Living"
Of course but we do NOT always make it but we are to strive to be perfect as Jesus commanded. Unfortunately, our sin nature gets in the way at times and we do not always make it. Anybody that says they have NO sin is a liar, and the Truth is not in him. Sometimes we do actually repent and we change certain actions about ourselves. I believe it’s a lifelong process with the help of the Holy Spirit.

As a side note, there are lots of comments about Christians acting like sin is "no big deal," that we just sin on Sa****ay, ask for forgiveness on Sunday and act like it is no big deal. Just for me personally, you don’t even KNOW ME and have no idea what you are talking about. I realize EVERY SIN I commit is another pound of the nails in Christ's hands and feet. If you think I am not conscience about THAT then there is no sense in even dialoging with you. I know MANY LDS people and BELIEVE ME.... NONE of them are perfect or sinless.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Why do we need to understand LDS?

This is a great quote!!

Even in this thread another LDS-critic complained that he wasn't going to address the questions in the OP because he doesn't get serious conversation from LDS (me), and many other critics whine that their questions and conversations about Mormonism are ignored. But TheSword just showed us WHY many LDS choose not to bother!

When LDS people don't bother to address every claim made by the attackers, those critics then claim victory and claim that the LDS refusal to give them the time of day means that the LDS has no answer or has lost the debate. And yet when a LDS does engage in a conversation about LDS beliefs the critics make the wonderful comment that TheSword made above. Their ears are stopped, their eyes are shut, and their brains are turned off because they already think they know everything about LDS beliefs.

Its already been proven the mormon jesus was a man, married and fathered children. This isn't an attack, it's what the lds church taught.

So Jesus was never a man?

Some non-LDS believe Jesus was married. Some believe He had children.

Are people who believe this UN-Christian?

Would Jesus being married or having kids make Him any less divine?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

Sir stated: "jdjhere,

Since you have chosen to go ahead and contribute to this thread, what are your positions to the bolded questions in the OP? What is your position on each of the points of repentance that James conjectured upon? Are the LDS positions acceptable? Why or why not?

1. The sinner must have "Sorrow for Sin"
Of course. You have to recognize it IS sin and be sorry that you have sinned against God.
2. Then "Confess" the sin.
Of course. We need to confess that what we have done and deal with it and repent.
3. You have to stop sinning "Abandon Sin".
Of course. We need to repent of the sin (turn away from) and do our best NOT to sin anymore.
4. The sinner MUST make Res***ution.
Of course. If we have injured anybody (physically OR mentally) we need to try to make the wrong right again, then #5…
5. You must change your ways to "Righteous Living"
Of course but we do NOT always make it but we are to strive to be perfect as Jesus commanded. Unfortunately, our sin nature gets in the way at times and we do not always make it. Anybody that says they have NO sin is a liar, and the Truth is not in him. Sometimes we do actually repent and we change certain actions about ourselves. I believe it’s a lifelong process with the help of the Holy Spirit.

So you agree with the LDS principles of repentance too.

Great!!

I wonder why other "christians" like James seem to have a problem with almost all of them.

As a side note, there are lots of comments about Christians acting like sin is "no big deal," that we just sin on Sa****ay, ask for forgiveness on Sunday and act like it is no big deal. Just for me personally, you don’t even KNOW ME and have no idea what you are talking about. I realize EVERY SIN I commit is another pound of the nails in Christ's hands and feet. If you think I am not conscience about THAT then there is no sense in even dialoging with you.

Well, you don't know me either. So does that mean you have no idea what YOU are talking about?

I know MANY LDS people and BELIEVE ME.... NONE of them are perfect or sinless.

That's funny. Me too!!!!

So what? Whoever said anyone was sinless and perfect?

This is about repentance, not who is better than someone else.

[jdjhere]

Sir stated: "I appreciate your attempt at preaching not to cast stones while simultaneously calling me self-righteous. No irony there. None. "

Glad you feel that way. We are both sinners, you and me. I just thought you were attacking JamesBanta by repeating his name many times in "quotes" and it seemed fairly vindictive to me. If I misunderstood I apologize, Sir. Once we admit to God we have sinned and try to change it with the above steps, that sin is washed as WHITE as snow and is NO MORE. Thats what Jesus Christ has done for us with His blood and willingly going to the cross FOR US. There is no greater love than this.

[jdjhere]

Sir stated: "Well, you don't know me either. So does that mean you have no idea what YOU are talking about?"

No I don't know you but YOU (NOT me) made the statement about Christians, of which I AM one. So, explain to me what you meant when you said Christians act like sin is "no big deal."

Sir stated: (Post #13) "are reasons that these Christians are so quick to shrug off sins as being no big deal. They simply believe that since they are "saved", nothing they do will affect that salvation, not even sins, so if you mess up and sin, it's no big deal because ??it isn't YOUR fault?? you are sinning because You are perfect in Jesus."

This statement is simply NOT TRUE.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

Sir stated: "Well, you don't know me either. So does that mean you have no idea what YOU are talking about?"

No I don't know you but YOU (NOT me) made the statement about Christians, of which I AM one. So, explain to me what you meant when you said Christians act like sin is "no big deal."

Sir stated: (Post #13) "are reasons that these Christians are so quick to shrug off sins as being no big deal. They simply believe that since they are "saved", nothing they do will affect that salvation, not even sins, so if you mess up and sin, it's no big deal because ??it isn't YOUR fault?? you are sinning because You are perfect in Jesus."

This statement is simply NOT TRUE.

Okay....some Christians.

Obviously not 100% of any group will believe the exact same. Even Mormons. So when critics claim that "Mormons believe...", remember your statement that maybe SOME Mormons believe...

And my statement IS true. No matter how much a Christian believes his sin is affecting Christ's suffering, when they simply blame the "sin" for sinning and claim they themselves are actually perfectly blameless because they are "saved, that's where the true understanding of sin and repentance is diminished in their "gospel". That's my take.

jdjhere: As a courtesy, could you use the quote function when quoting posts? It is difficult to read through your personal formatting.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Okay....some Christians.

Obviously not 100% of any group will believe the exact same. Even Mormons. So when critics claim that "Mormons believe...", remember your statement that maybe SOME Mormons believe...

And my statement IS true. No matter how much a Christian believes his sin is affecting Christ's suffering, when they simply blame the "sin" for sinning and claim they themselves are actually perfectly blameless because they are "saved, that's where the true understanding of sin and repentance is diminished in their "gospel". That's my take.

jdjhere: As a courtesy, could you use the quote function when quoting posts? It is difficult to read through your personal formatting.

I believe 100% of what I believe in, but the other 0% is adding up to more than what I can handel.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

You know, sometimes I wonder about your ability to perceive and understand LDS, even to the point that I wonder if you were really once LDS.

Mosiah 3:19

19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

It is in our scripture that the natural man is an enemy to God.

Yes I and I used that in my post.. But then I know nothing about the LDS scripture.. I can't help the fact that mormonism denies the doctrine that we are all sinners from our birth.. That we come into this world in a state of purity. Here is a flash for you.. There is NO ONE MORE NATURAL THAN A NEW BORN BABY.. These then according to the BofM are enemies of God.. After all they have not "yielded to the enticing of the Holy Spirit, and put off the natural man and have become a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord".. No, what you teach about children is even outside the grace of God. Mormonism teaches that they are sinless. That they don't need Him for anything more than resurrection.. His atoning sacrifice means nothing to them because they violate the scripture and they have no sin.. Never mind that God see our heart (that is our very nature) and reports that it is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.. He tell is that ALL of us are sinners. Not some, not Most, not even those old enough, but ALL OF US.. Children are part of that description..

Mormonism is great about showing how "Christian" it is until you look closely at how it belittles God and His word in it's false doctrines.. IHS jim