Repentance

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

JamesBanta stated: "Yes I sinned and committed adultery. I was totally in myself having had walked away from God. Then I came to see that sin and the Holy Spirit convicted me and brought me back to the cross where I saw what my sin had caused in the suffering of my Lord.. I accepted His sacrifice for my sin and thanked Him for His grace.."

Well JamesBanta, Jesus said if you even LOOK at a woman with lust in your heart that you are guilty, so guess what? Every guy here in this WM forum, at one time or another is his life, is GUILTY, including Sir. As males, our flesh is weak and that is part of the battle.

Thank you my brother for your support and understanding.. I am still sinning regularly for as I read God's word I am still guilty before Him for breaking all His Laws (James 2:10).. Still I was very guilty and as I have gained His promised forgiveness I thank you for yours as well.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

So according to JD's interpretation of the Bible, to think of a sin is the same as to act on it. There is no difference in gravity or severity.

I think this and the other line of thinking brought up in this thread about "It's not me that is sinning but the sin that is in me", are reasons that these Christians are so quick to shrug off sins as being no big deal. They simply believe that since they are "saved", nothing they do will affect that salvation, not even sins, so if you mess up and sin, it's no big deal because it isn't YOUR fault you are sinning because YOu are perfect in Jesus. It's simply that pesky sin that is inside you that is doing the bad stuff. "The devil made me do it" at***ude. And also this idea that, well, I've already thought about doing it so it is no different then if I actually DO commit it, so why not?

That is a problematic position for Christians because it actually mocks God and Jesus' atonement.

No son is no big deal.. All it caused was the entry of death into the world, the suffering of the Lord on that cruel Roman cross, and the destruction of countless souls that will be lost in the Lake of Fire.. Because God offers us forgiveness and justification as a free gift through faith in Jesus doesn't make the gift cheep or valueless. It is a gift that is beyond any value and beyond our ability to purchase. Your blasphemy would cheapen it and that is one more of your attacks on the Christian faith that you say you never make.. You insult our God, His might in creation, His work for our salvation. Then you get upset when we tell you that the Bible contradicts your doctrines on each point.. That God is One Lord, That God is Spirit, That He created all things, That He purchased our salvation with His own blood and gives it freely to all that believe.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Thank you my brother for your support and understanding.. I am still sinning regularly for as I read God's word I am still guilty before Him for breaking all His Laws (James 2:10).. Still I was very guilty and as I have gained His promised forgiveness I thank you for yours as well.. IHS jim

I've often wonder why so many people are worried about other peoples sins.
I can barely keep up with my own, like today, I've must have sinned 1.2 million times all ready. I wonder how many goats I gotta take to the LDS temple for sacrifice for my sins, anyone got an idea?
NO, James you are not quilty, as in the words of St Paul, " Liberty".
James, as a born againder you have taken of the Living Cup of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible, and the Cup is never empty!

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

Sir stated: "jdjhere,

Since you have chosen to go ahead and contribute to this thread, what are your positions to the bolded questions in the OP? What is your position on each of the points of repentance that James conjectured upon? Are the LDS positions acceptable? Why or why not?

1. The sinner must have "Sorrow for Sin"
Of course. You have to recognize it IS sin and be sorry that you have sinned against God.
2. Then "Confess" the sin.
Of course. We need to confess that what we have done and deal with it and repent.
3. You have to stop sinning "Abandon Sin".
Of course. We need to repent of the sin (turn away from) and do our best NOT to sin anymore.
4. The sinner MUST make Res***ution.
Of course. If we have injured anybody (physically OR mentally) we need to try to make the wrong right again, then #5…
5. You must change your ways to "Righteous Living"
Of course but we do NOT always make it but we are to strive to be perfect as Jesus commanded. Unfortunately, our sin nature gets in the way at times and we do not always make it. Anybody that says they have NO sin is a liar, and the Truth is not in him. Sometimes we do actually repent and we change certain actions about ourselves. I believe it’s a lifelong process with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Does anyone Abandon sin or are we likely to sin again and again? Am I the only one alive that sins again and again or do others do this as well? Is it possible to make Res***ution for not keeping the Sabbath, or putting others or other things before God? Just what can we do to make a res***ution for these sins? Isn't the blood of our Lord enough? Can we really cover these sins on our own? Can we EARN our forgiveness through Righteous Living? Jesus said there is no one Good but God.. Through the prophet our efforts to be Righteous are called filthy rags.. We can cooperate with the Holy Spirit as He works within us conforming us to the image of Jesus, listening to Him as we fail and fail again and finally gain the victory over sin as we exit this body of death. But is that struggle the means by which we gain God's forgiveness? I say NO that forgiveness comes to us by His grace through faith in Jesus and in NO OTHER WAY..

I am sorry but the LDS step by step requirements for repentance is a formula for death since no one can walk in the condition they lay out for repentance.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes I and I used that in my post.. But then I know nothing about the LDS scripture.. I can't help the fact that mormonism denies the doctrine that we are all sinners from our birth.. That we come into this world in a state of purity. Here is a flash for you.. There is NO ONE MORE NATURAL THAN A NEW BORN BABY.. These then according to the BofM are enemies of God.. After all they have not "yielded to the enticing of the Holy Spirit, and put off the natural man and have become a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord".. No, what you teach about children is even outside the grace of God. Mormonism teaches that they are sinless. That they don't need Him for anything more than resurrection.. His atoning sacrifice means nothing to them because they violate the scripture and they have no sin.. Never mind that God see our heart (that is our very nature) and reports that it is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.. He tell is that ALL of us are sinners. Not some, not Most, not even those old enough, but ALL OF US.. Children are part of that description..

Mormonism is great about showing how "Christian" it is until you look closely at how it belittles God and His word in it's false doctrines.. IHS jim

Once again James you have shown you really don't get it. Anyone out there reading James' explanation of our beliefs should toss them out the window.

This whole post is so ridden with errors that it would take more time than I have to prove it all wrong.

Put simply, the LDS believe children are without sin and protected from the fall of Adam by the atonement of Jesus Christ. Children, even babies, are without sin because they are incapable of consciously choosing to sin. Do they sin? Yes. They are not sinless. However, because they can not understand the law and consciously choose to sin or not they are 100% covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ. Please refer to Moroni 8.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

So Jesus was never a man?

Some non-LDS believe Jesus was married. Some believe He had children.

Are people who believe this UN-Christian?

Would Jesus being married or having kids make Him any less divine?

Yes Jesus was human.. He was 100% human.. Yet He is always God. He is 100% God and in that He is the Only God that exists or will ever exist.. He didn't come here to be a man and submit to the world in any way. Yes being a husband and a natural father would take away from His Godhood. This would make Jesus a servant of the pleasures of mortality and diminish His place as the everlasting Father.. Also this would place a divine bloodline into mortality. These would when be worshiped as semi divine beings.. God knew all these things. And we seeing that man is so very susceptible to idolatry would easily fall into such a trap.. yes holding such false teachings are UN-Christian and those that hold them are pagan not Christian.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

This whole post is so ridden with errors that it would take more time than I have to prove it all wrong.

Please refer to Moroni 8.

I thought the same thing while reading. Thought to myself, "Was James REALLY a Mormon in the past? Because he comes up with so many statements of what LDS people believe that are completely false and opposite of the truth that it makes one wonder if he really was LDS before. But then again, if that is a sign of his knowledge of Mormonism, it explains why he ended up leaving the church, since he didn't understand its doctrines to begin with. So I guess it DOES make sense"

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Once again James you have shown you really don't get it. Anyone out there reading James' explanation of our beliefs should toss them out the window.

This whole post is so ridden with errors that it would take more time than I have to prove it all wrong.

Put simply, the LDS believe children are without sin and protected from the fall of Adam by the atonement of Jesus Christ. Children, even babies, are without sin because they are incapable of consciously choosing to sin. Do they sin? Yes. They are not sinless. However, because they can not understand the law and consciously choose to sin or not they are 100% covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ. Please refer to Moroni 8.

here is the difference between us.. LDS teach that a person becomes a sinner through the commission of sin.. The Bible teaches that we are sinners because that is our nature.. We sin because we are sinners by nature.. A new born's nature is that of a sinner.. A 2 year old will stand in front of you and deny taking the candy even though their face and hands are covered in chocolate. Have we taught them to lie? What parent sits down and teaches their child to lie? And yet they lie!!! Instead of referring you to a lie like the BofM I refer you to God's truth (Psalm 51:5). I refer you to the word "ALL". It is inclusive to any human being that ever existed not just to adults.. And the Bible is Clear ALL HAVE SINNED (Romans 3:23)..

I don't believe that the BofM is anything more than the words of Joseph Smith. He was a liar and a fraud from the beginning of His days and when the BofM was published his fraud was just getting started.. He is one that is accursed for teachings different gospel. He is one that gave false prophecy and made excuses for God on that He didn't have the power to overcome the power of mere men to make it possible that believers could keep His commandments.. The Bible has been shown many times to be God's word. Even mormonism says it is as long as you see though errors that God said He would never allow to be included.. So stay with that which I accept as scripture and show me that I am wrong..

I can use the BofM to show you that mormonism is wrong because you accept it as God's word. You can't use it as a reference to show your points to me because I deny it as truth. Sorry Moroni 8 is meaningless as a reference. I will say that mormonism teaches contradiction at every turn. In Mosiah the natural man is called and enemy and then in Moroni where children are said to be incapable of committing sin. then the Bible says we all sin, and you call it scripture as well? The inconsistencies of mormonism are gigantic.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

here is the difference between us.. LDS teach that a person becomes a sinner through the commission of sin.. The Bible teaches that we are sinners because that is our nature.. We sin because we are sinners by nature.. A new born's nature is that of a sinner.. A 2 year old will stand in front of you and deny taking the candy even though their face and hands are covered in chocolate. Have we taught them to lie? What parent sits down and teaches their child to lie? And yet they lie!!! Instead of referring you to a lie like the BofM I refer you to God's truth (Psalm 51:5). I refer you to the word "ALL". It is inclusive to any human being that ever existed not just to adults.. And the Bible is Clear ALL HAVE SINNED (Romans 3:23)..

Not really different. The basic doctrine is that ALL children under the age of eight are covered by the atonement of Christ.

I can use the BofM to show you that mormonism is wrong because you accept it as God's word. You can't use it as a reference to show your points to me because I deny it as truth. Sorry Moroni 8 is meaningless as a reference.

It is a perfect reference to show your inability to understand LDS beliefs and teachings. That is all I'm doing. I know that I'll never be able to prove the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon to you. That is not my purpose. My purpose is to show how wrong you are when you try to tell others what our beliefs are.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

I thought the same thing while reading. Thought to myself, "Was James REALLY a Mormon in the past? Because he comes up with so many statements of what LDS people believe that are completely false and opposite of the truth that it makes one wonder if he really was LDS before. But then again, if that is a sign of his knowledge of Mormonism, it explains why he ended up leaving the church, since he didn't understand its doctrines to begin with. So I guess it DOES make sense"

Thank both of you!!! It is wonderful to have people believe that I was never connected to the LDS church at all.. I have been told the strangest things on here and on CARM by LDS that the Church no ways believes especially by Bert.. Other have told me if progression between kingdoms, and God still progresses in knowledge and glory.. Other contradict these strange ideas.. On short there is no LDS doctrine.. It's what ever the brothern hold to be the churches teaching at the time.. You know that.. Brigham Young taught that Adam was God for years.. It was LDS doctrine in 1852 but today teaching it will get you exed.. With the Lord this would be impossible because He nor His Gospel changes. But Mormonism is another matter.. Even the scripture has changed over 3,000 times.. Doctrines such as the Trinity, the nature of God, the use of magic, the connection to masonry, and polygamy.. It is all different today there is no such thing as mormon doctrine.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Not really different. The basic doctrine is that ALL children under the age of eight are covered by the atonement of Christ.

It is a perfect reference to show your inability to understand LDS beliefs and teachings. That is all I'm doing. I know that I'll never be able to prove the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon to you. That is not my purpose. My purpose is to show how wrong you are when you try to tell others what our beliefs are.

And those that are slower than the Norm, what of them? They have no way of understand the concept of sin and yet this arbitrary age is set and I have seen nothing to give dispensation to such that are slower than normal mentally.

So you deny the Mosiah p***age? Good so do I! You wish to cling to the Moroni p***age through.. That is too bad it is just and man invented as Mosiah.. But if the Mosiah p***age is erred and false what makes you believe that the Moroni p***age is correct? They teach contradicting tenets, so which is the lie and which is the truth? IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

jdjhere,

Since you have chosen to go ahead and contribute to this thread, what are your positions to the bolded questions in the OP? What is your position on each of the points of repentance that James conjectured upon? Are the LDS positions acceptable? Why or why not?

The points of LDS repentance were taken direct from LDS.org clearly an anti mormonism source.. I turn to your own repentance (the conjecture is is that you did indeed experienced repentance) have you lived 100% clean before God since that day? Whether it was at your baptism or some time before you were baptized. You had to live live totally righteously to proved that you had real repentance.. Did you? Or since that have have you sinned? Of you have then your repentance according to the LDS model of repentance is worthless because of the later sin.. Go to LDS.org yourself and read the steps. I read what it said.. You can never sin again after repentance or the repentance wasn't real.. You should question either your repentance or the LDS doctrine of repentance.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

And those that are slower than the Norm, what of them? They have no way of understand the concept of sin and yet this arbitrary age is set and I have seen nothing to give dispensation to such that are slower than normal mentally.

If their mental capacity is of a child then they are covered.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

The points of LDS repentance were taken direct from LDS.org clearly an anti mormonism source.. I turn to your own repentance (the conjecture is is that you did indeed experienced repentance) have you lived 100% clean before God since that day? Whether it was at your baptism or some time before you were baptized. You had to live live totally righteously to proved that you had real repentance.. Did you? Or since that have have you sinned? Of you have then your repentance according to the LDS model of repentance is worthless because of the later sin.. Go to LDS.org yourself and read the steps. I read what it said.. You can never sin again after repentance or the repentance wasn't real.. You should question either your repentance or the LDS doctrine of repentance.. IHS jim

I don't take issue with the steps you posted.

I find it funny that so far, of the LDS and non-LDS in this thread, you seem to be the only one who has issues with them.

As for your other post, it isn't the LDS doctrine that has me wondering if you were really LDS. It is your presentation of what YOU claim to be Mormon doctrine and how false it is. You cannot even present a truthful interpretation of the Book of Mormon, let alone the more obscure doctrines.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Sir

I don't take issue with the steps you posted.

I find it funny that so far, of the LDS and non-LDS in this thread, you seem to be the only one who has issues with them.

As for your other post, it isn't the LDS doctrine that has me wondering if you were really LDS. It is your presentation of what YOU claim to be Mormon doctrine and how false it is. You cannot even present a truthful interpretation of the Book of Mormon, let alone the more obscure doctrines.

Why do you presume you have anything to teach Christians? Since the foundation of mormonism is in error, every teaching that comes from that will be erroneous. You have you own books and a hodgepodge of writings from leaders that disagree and whose teachings have been tossed out and replaced. You have your own god, jesus and a completely different gospel. Any doctrine coming out of these man-made beliefs will always be false.

You need to get right with God before its too late and throw out your books and read only the Holly Scriptures. Therein you will find life.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Why do you presume you have anything to teach Christians?

The same reason you presume to have something to teach LDS.

However, as is obvious by your statements like that one above, you are not humble nor teachable, which is a real tragedy and an irony in the realm of spiritual learning.

[jdjhere]

Sir stated: So according to JD's interpretation of the Bible, to think of a sin is the same as to act on it. There is no difference in gravity or severity.

I never said this. Sin is sin. If we have ANY sin we are not worthy to be with an infinitely Holy, Righteous, Just and Good God and are also worthy of death. If we even look at a woman with lust in our heart then we are guilty of impure thoughts and we have committed adultery IN OUR HEARTS. If we actually ACT IT OUT, then we are setting ourselves up for even MORE problems (venereal diseases, breakups of families, lying, etc...) so I DO believe that some sins are worse in Gods eyes than others but it doesn't matter because if we have the LEAST LITTLE STAIN of sin we are guilty and not worthy. That is the point Jesus was trying to make in His example of even looking at a woman with lust in your heart... we are guilty guilty guilty... and His Blood keeps on cleansing us from all sin and no one comes to the Father but by Him.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

If their mental capacity is of a child then they are covered.

Show me in LDS scripture where that is addressed. You or any man can say it but if it';s not is the scriptures it isn't what the church believes as doctrine.. I have been told that again and again from many of you, so can we go by what prophets have said about points of faith and hold their teachings as doctrine or do we ONLY go by the scripture? You can't have it both ways.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Maybe you could explain what this means. What do you mean that it is no longer YOU that sins, but sin that lives within you. If you go out and shoot someone, it really isn't you that is sinning?

I read what the scripture teaches and believe what it as it is stated:

Romans 7:14-20
For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

I believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God. It says what it says and if you can read the English language you can see what I believe because it is just what the Bible here teaches.. Once a person has repented, they no longer sin but because they still live within these bodies of death sin lives there inside that body.. It is that body of sin that lives there in them that sins not the believer.. Do you see some other meaning that meets the intent of the p***age? I doubt it.. This is just a p***age that mormonism calls corrupted by the GandAC.. But This doctrine is also hard to find within the Catholic church as well and the LDS church.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Placing the blame is exactly the reason this is all so confusing. They say it is not them that sins, but the sin in them. Then why the need to repent? Why does God need to work on them if they aren't the one sinning? I just don't get this line of thinking.

Yes in a way, we all sin because we are all sinners.. When Faith in Jesus is born within us and we are Born Again we become a new creation. The problem is that we still live in the body of death and sin. Is sin still being committed by my old self the natural part of who i am, YES. This p***age teaches us that when we (the Christian) sins it is this old nature this natural man that is sinning and not the new creation that is created in the image of Jesus.. If you still want to deny this you must deny the teaching preserved for us in God's word the Bible.. You nor any LDS I have ever quoted this p***age scoff at it but none has ever offered a interpretation that meets the message of the p***age.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

This sounds like you are simply a robot that is waiting for the next program to be executed. You only sin because of the sin that is programmed in you. You are not in the image of Jesus yet because Jesus hasn't programmed you to be where He wants you yet.

Yours is a gospel of blaming everything other than yourself for all that is right and all that is wrong. When you pretend that nothing you do is your fault and your postion with Jesus is not your fault or doing, it makes it so much easier to simply exist in i g n o r a n t bliss because you have everyone else to blame for your condition except yourself.

Yours is a sad interpretation of the gospel.

For the Christian the sin is blamed for sin.. WE are forgiven of all our sin. He became sin in our place so that we can be made the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21). So the LDS now believe that someone with the righteousness of God is still committing sin? The problem is we all do still sin.. Explain how the Bible can be true except is cases you don't like. like this p***age from Romans 7. It is a Biblical teaching and is correct as I have quoted it.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

I don't take issue with the steps you posted.

I find it funny that so far, of the LDS and non-LDS in this thread, you seem to be the only one who has issues with them.

As for your other post, it isn't the LDS doctrine that has me wondering if you were really LDS. It is your presentation of what YOU claim to be Mormon doctrine and how false it is. You cannot even present a truthful interpretation of the Book of Mormon, let alone the more obscure doctrines.

WIW, how shocking those that don't believe in the God of the Bible, those that deny that Jesus is the Mighty God. the Everlasting Father, those that deny that He imputes His righteousness on all who hold faith in Him are the ones that deny the truth of Romans 7:13-20.. All you have done here is confirm that mormons don't believe the Bible and have accepted in it's place the teachings of a man..

I am the only one that has given an interpretation of the Mosiah p***age.. I see it is conflict with the Moroni p***age.. You have NOT bothered to show how these p***ages work together.. I asked for you to do so and all i have gotten to that question is "your presentation of what YOU claim to be Mormon doctrine and how false it is. You cannot even present a truthful interpretation of the Book of Mormon, let alone the more obscure doctrines".. How does that explain that I was even wrong much less what the p***age is actually teaching.. I read English.. This p***age is written in English.. I expect it to mean what it says.. You are telling me that what the p***age says isn't necessarily what it means.. I disagree.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Why do you presume you have anything to teach Christians? Since the foundation of mormonism is in error, every teaching that comes from that will be erroneous. You have you own books and a hodgepodge of writings from leaders that disagree and whose teachings have been tossed out and replaced. You have your own god, jesus and a completely different gospel. Any doctrine coming out of these man-made beliefs will always be false.

You need to get right with God before its too late and throw out your books and read only the Holly Scriptures. Therein you will find life.

We aren't right because we reject a church? I see mormons as not right with God because they reject Him and turn to the imaginations of a mere man is God's place! That is a huge difference.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

Sir stated: So according to JD's interpretation of the Bible, to think of a sin is the same as to act on it. There is no difference in gravity or severity.

I never said this. Sin is sin. If we have ANY sin we are not worthy to be with an infinitely Holy, Righteous, Just and Good God and are also worthy of death. If we even look at a woman with lust in our heart then we are guilty of impure thoughts and we have committed adultery IN OUR HEARTS. If we actually ACT IT OUT, then we are setting ourselves up for even MORE problems (venereal diseases, breakups of families, lying, etc...) so I DO believe that some sins are worse in Gods eyes than others but it doesn't matter because if we have the LEAST LITTLE STAIN of sin we are guilty and not worthy. That is the point Jesus was trying to make in His example of even looking at a woman with lust in your heart... we are guilty guilty guilty... and His Blood keeps on cleansing us from all sin and no one comes to the Father but by Him.

So you agree that some sins are worse/ more severe than others.

I can agree with this.

Okay.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

WIW, how shocking those that don't believe in the God of the Bible, those that deny that Jesus is the Mighty God. the Everlasting Father, those that deny that He imputes His righteousness on all who hold faith in Him are the ones that deny the truth of Romans 7:13-20.. All you have done here is confirm that mormons don't believe the Bible and have accepted in it's place the teachings of a man..

I am the only one that has given an interpretation of the Mosiah p***age.. I see it is conflict with the Moroni p***age.. You have NOT bothered to show how these p***ages work together.. I asked for you to do so and all i have gotten to that question is "your presentation of what YOU claim to be Mormon doctrine and how false it is. You cannot even present a truthful interpretation of the Book of Mormon, let alone the more obscure doctrines".. How does that explain that I was even wrong much less what the p***age is actually teaching.. I read English.. This p***age is written in English.. I expect it to mean what it says.. You are telling me that what the p***age says isn't necessarily what it means.. I disagree.. IHS jim

Your first paragragh above is why LDS like myself don't bother spending any time trying to get you to see the correct POV on the Book of Mormon. You already have your own false beliefs and no matter what will continue to propogate a lie, like in the first paragraph.

So it's kind of pointless to do anything with you except point out the obvious problems in your attacks. If you can't even attack others' beliefs with truth, then no point in engaging in truth with you.