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Thread: Repentance

  1. #51
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    So you agree that some sins are worse/ more severe than others.

    I can agree with this.

    Okay.
    All sin is just that sin.. One is just as serious as the other.. All sin brings one punishment DEATH.. Just which sins are greater than the others? A person found guilty of any of then before the judgement seat of God will be guilty of all sin even denial of the Holy Spirit and there will never be any forgiveness.. Look at Rev 21:8 tell me is unbelieving, or lying less of a sin than murder or adultery? They are all listed together with one punishment.. You have to show through the Bible that son differs in severity.. I don't think you can show that it does.. IHS jim

  2. #52
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    Your first paragragh above is why LDS like myself don't bother spending any time trying to get you to see the correct POV on the Book of Mormon. You already have your own false beliefs and no matter what will continue to propogate a lie, like in the first paragraph.

    So it's kind of pointless to do anything with you except point out the obvious problems in your attacks. If you can't even attack others' beliefs with truth, then no point in engaging in truth with you.
    It is YOU that deny the doctrines found in the Bible not me.. The only way I believe you can do that is to attack the Bible as being corrupt.. Now I see by quoting it you accuse me of lying.. You call good (the Bible) evil (Corrupt) and and evil (Words made up by a man) good (scripture).. If you can't defend your pwn corrupted church and it's words of a man then STOP POSTING.. IHS jim

  3. #53
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    All sin is just that sin.. One is just as serious as the other.. All sin brings one punishment DEATH.. Just which sins are greater than the others? A person found guilty of any of then before the judgement seat of God will be guilty of all sin even denial of the Holy Spirit and there will never be any forgiveness.. Look at Rev 21:8 tell me is unbelieving, or lying less of a sin than murder or adultery? They are all listed together with one punishment.. You have to show through the Bible that son differs in severity.. I don't think you can show that it does.. IHS jim
    One of your own here disagrees with you, James.

    Does that mean he is a pagan and UNchristian?

    I'm fine if you want to believe that thinking of stealing an ice cream cone is the same exact severity of sin as the guy that just murdered 26 people in CT.

    Rational and logical people know that there is indeed a difference.

    Even our fallen mortal natures understand that some crimes are greater than others and people are judges accordingly.

    But you make my point once again. People that believe the thought of a sin is just as severe as the act of the sin, are more likely to just act on it since there isn't a difference in their minds.

  4. #54
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    One of your own here disagrees with you, James.

    Does that mean he is a pagan and UNchristian?

    I'm fine if you want to believe that thinking of stealing an ice cream cone is the same exact severity of sin as the guy that just murdered 26 people in CT.

    Rational and logical people know that there is indeed a difference.

    Even our fallen mortal natures understand that some crimes are greater than others and people are judges accordingly.

    But you make my point once again. People that believe the thought of a sin is just as severe as the act of the sin, are more likely to just act on it since there isn't a difference in their minds.
    I have spoken to all of them that you think disagree.. While they see the conditions mormonism teaching as imperatives for repentance as the way they would really love to live, they disagree that living a life without the flesh and sin coming out in our thoughts and action is possible as long as we live in this body of death.. Not one of us want to sin.. It been said many times that all we need to do is say we believe in Jesus and we can then sen all we want.. That isn't quite true. Those of us that truly believe sin much more then we want.. What I see in the LDS is sinners that ignore their sin.. Therefore they say that they just don't sin.. I saw one of my brothers here tell us all the truth.. He has well over 1,000 sins committed BEFORE BREAKFAST.. He knows His place before a Holy God.. The LDS don't seem to understand they are in that same place as we concerning sin.. IHS jim

  5. #55
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    I've often wonder why so many people are worried about other peoples sins.
    I can barely keep up with my own, like today, I've must have sinned 1.2 million times all ready. I wonder how many goats I gotta take to the LDS temple for sacrifice for my sins, anyone got an idea?
    NO, James you are not quilty, as in the words of St Paul, " Liberty".
    James, as a born againder you have taken of the Living Cup of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible, and the Cup is never empty!
    It's a good thing I can come to the cup of His Spirit again and again because my spirit leaks.. IHS jim

  6. #56
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdjhere View Post
    No I don't know you but YOU (NOT me) made the statement about Christians, of which I AM one. So, explain to me what you meant when you said Christians act like sin is "no big deal."

    Sir stated: (Post #13) "are reasons that these Christians are so quick to shrug off sins as being no big deal. They simply believe that since they are "saved", nothing they do will affect that salvation, not even sins, so if you mess up and sin, it's no big deal because ??it isn't YOUR fault?? you are sinning because You are perfect in Jesus."

    This statement is simply NOT TRUE.
    Maybe--but there is one thing for sure--the faith alone do not relate acts of obedience to Jesus Christ with His grace unto eternal life.

    They are faith that is alone for salvation.

  7. #57
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by jdjhere
    No I don't know you but YOU (NOT me) made the statement about Christians, of which I AM one. So, explain to me what you meant when you said Christians act like sin is "no big deal."

    Sir stated: (Post #13) "are reasons that these Christians are so quick to shrug off sins as being no big deal. They simply believe that since they are "saved", nothing they do will affect that salvation, not even sins, so if you mess up and sin, it's no big deal because ??it isn't YOUR fault?? you are sinning because You are perfect in Jesus."

    This statement is simply NOT TRUE.
    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Maybe--but there is one thing for sure--the faith alone do not relate acts of obedience to Jesus Christ with His grace unto eternal life.

    They are faith that is alone for salvation.

    Bump for JD

  8. #58
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Bump for JD
    What refutes obedience as the way to salvation is the fact that NO ONE is obedient.. If obedience were the only way to salvation no one could ever be saved.. Because of this God in His wisdom made it possible for a man to be perfect before Him bu imputing the righteousness of His Son in those that believe (Romans 4:24).. IHS jim

  9. #59
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by jdjhereNo I don't know you but YOU (NOT me) made the statement about Christians, of which I AM one. So, explain to me what you meant when you said Christians act like sin is "no big deal."

    Sir stated: (Post #13) "are reasons that these Christians are so quick to shrug off sins as being no big deal. They simply believe that since they are "saved", nothing they do will affect that salvation, not even sins, so if you mess up and sin, it's no big deal because ??it isn't YOUR fault?? you are sinning because You are perfect in Jesus."

    This statement is simply NOT TRUE.
    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Maybe--but there is one thing for sure--the faith alone do not relate acts of obedience to Jesus Christ with His grace unto eternal life.

    They are faith that is alone for salvation.

    Bump for JD or anyone who believes the faith alone do not teach a faith that is alone for salvation.

  10. #60
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Bump for JD or anyone who believes the faith alone do not teach a faith that is alone for salvation.
    I have no idea what you are asking for here. I would love to have you restate it so that the statements makes some sense.. As for faith being the means to unlock God's grace, that is a truism.. We are saved by God's grace through Faith in Jesus and NOT OF WORKS.. If we were saved by works we would have something of to boast. But being saved 100% by God's grace we have nothing to boast. I have told you and shown you many times DB that we all sin DAILY.. In what we think, what we say, in what we do, and even in what we neglect to do.. All of us fall short of God's righteousness in our every breath. And that is being disobedient, for the command given to us by Jesus is to "BE PERFECT AS THE FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT". Because this is His commandment, failing short of keeping it puts us in sin before God. You know what the wages of our sin is? DEATH! That understood tell me just how obedience can make up for our disobedience? Without the imputed righteousness of Jesus we can be nothing than what we are, Sinners. And if sinners then children of wrath, those cast into the Lake of Fire.

    Can baptism erase our sin? Mere water covering our bodies? How when we turn around and start sinning again right after walking out of the faunt? The baptism we need is an eternal washing and that is only possible by the Blood of the Lamb. If the Holy Spirit taught us through the Apostle Paul that we are imputed with the righteousness of God though Faith in Jesus as Abram was because he believed God then our faith becomes our obedience through the righteousness of the Lord. There is no way out, works of obedience mixed with out works of disobedience can't be called righteousness.. I have shown you before in James chapter 2 that keeping the whole Law except for one point makes us guilty of breaking the whole of the Law.. And what is the Law if not the commandments of God? We aren't talking about just the 10 commandments here. Understand that is the sermon on the mount Jesus intensified the Law to include the thoughts and desires of our heart. He commanded us to have the perfection of God.. So if we fail in any of that James tells us we are guilty of the whole Law.. Where is your obedience then.. YOU HAVE NONE. Faith alone is NOT A FREE P*** TO SIN.. No Christian sins as much as they want, we all sin much more than we want.. We don't want to sin at ALL.. If any man wants to sin and sees God's grace as license to do so he is NOT saved, he is NOT a child of God, not a Christian. I get the feeling that is what you see the grace of God as. Because of that I can't see you as having been added to membership in the Lord's Church.. Without that your salvation is clearly in serious question. IHS jim

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    What refutes obedience as the way to salvation is the fact that NO ONE is obedient.. If obedience were the only way to salvation no one could ever be saved.. Because of this God in His wisdom made it possible for a man to be perfect before Him bu imputing the righteousness of His Son in those that believe (Romans 4:24).. IHS jim
    Oh... I see.... So you believe that a person can refuse to obey God, and still be saved??? good to know.

  12. #62
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    I have no idea what you are asking for here. I would love to have you restate it so that the statements makes some sense.. As for faith being the means to unlock God's grace, that is a truism.. We are saved by God's grace through Faith in Jesus and NOT OF WORKS..
    Agreed. But if faith unlocks God's grace--is that dead faith you are referring to?


    James 2:20-26---King James Version (KJV)


    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

  13. #63
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Agreed. But if faith unlocks God's grace--is that dead faith you are referring to?


    James 2:20-26---King James Version (KJV)


    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    Not at all it is a faith that brings us to be the hands of the Lord in:

    James 2:4, 7, 8, 13, 15
    No showing partiality. Not blaspheming that worthy name by the which we are called. Loving our neighbors. Showing mercy, clothing the naked, and feeding the hungry. These are the works that show forth a persons faith.. These are the list of works right in the p***age.. Baptism, laying on of hands, being married, and enduring to the end in righteousness are not mentioned.. IHS jim

  14. #64
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by James Banta View Post-- As for faith being the means to unlock God's grace, that is a truism.. We are saved by God's grace through Faith in Jesus and NOT OF WORKS..
    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Agreed. But if faith unlocks God's grace--is that dead faith you are referring to?


    James 2:20-26---King James Version (KJV)


    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Not at all it is a faith that brings us to be the hands of the Lord in:
    Well--if it is not dead faith--then it is faith with works. Faith alone falls. End of story.

  15. #65
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Well--if it is not dead faith--then it is faith with works. Faith alone falls. End of story.
    You have already told me that faith precedes works. Don't you hold that position anymore?

  16. #66
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    You have already told me that faith precedes works. Don't you hold that position anymore?
    I believe what I have told you is that faith precedes obedience to Christ--but faith is still dead faith without obedience to Jesus Christ. Even the devils believe. The faith alone make it out that one is somehow saved at the point of belief, and then obedience to Jesus Christ. The scriptures have it quite differently:


    John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)


    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.


    That has all being judged according to works--AFTER DEATH--and that for life or ****ation.

  17. #67
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    I believe what I have told you is that faith precedes obedience to Christ--but faith is still dead faith without obedience to Jesus Christ.
    LDS Article of Faith

    4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    So the faith spoken about in the above article of faith is dead faith since it precedes works?

  18. #68
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    LDS Article of Faith

    4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    So the faith spoken about in the above article of faith is dead faith since it precedes works?
    Yes. Without repentance and water baptism--faith in Christ is dead faith--or, it cannot bring His grace unto life.

  19. #69
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Yes.
    So you agree that the faith spoken about in the article of faith is dead faith since it proceeds any works?

  20. #70
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So you agree that the faith spoken about in the article of faith is dead faith since it proceeds any works?
    Yes. Any faith that precedes works is dead faith--when we take that faith and obey Christ--it becomes living faith. Having faith in Christ--absent of obedience to Christ--will not save a single soul. It's not saving faith.

  21. #71
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Yes. Any faith that precedes works is dead faith--when we take that faith and obey Christ--it becomes living faith. Having faith in Christ--absent of obedience to Christ--will not save a single soul. It's not saving faith.
    So you earn true faith by adding works?

  22. #72
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So you earn true faith by adding works?
    Is this an example of adding works to earn true faith?


    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)


    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Is that an example of earning God's grace? The faith alone apparently believe so. They deny that verse is even true. They must have God giving His grace independent of any acts of obedience to Jesus Christ--and the Biblical verses just will not support that.

  23. #73
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Is this an example of adding works to earn true faith?


    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)


    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Is that an example of earning God's grace? The faith alone apparently believe so. They deny that verse is even true. They must have God giving His grace independent of any acts of obedience to Jesus Christ--and the Biblical verses just will not support that.
    Not at all. A person either has faith or he does not. Your concept that a person has to earn faith by works is false.

  24. #74
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Is this an example of adding works to earn true faith?


    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)


    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Is that an example of earning God's grace? The faith alone apparently believe so. They deny that verse is even true. They must have God giving His grace independent of any acts of obedience to Jesus Christ--and the Biblical verses just will not support that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Not at all.
    Yes--at all. The faith alone disclaim any acts of obedience that is necessary for God's grace unto life. It is faith that is alone for salvation.

    A person either has faith or he does not.
    That's not true either:


    James 2:20----King James Version (KJV)


    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


    A person can have dead faith. Do you believe dead faith is a saving faith?

    Your concept that a person has to earn faith by works is false.
    My concept is exactly what James bears witness to--that faith without works is dead:

    James 2:20----King James Version (KJV)

    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


    Is that what you are referring to--one must have works to avoid dead faith?

  25. #75
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Yes--at all. The faith alone disclaim any acts of obedience that is necessary for God's grace unto life. It is faith that is alone for salvation.
    After all of these years do you even have a clue why we believe this? Perhaps you could explain this verse for me.

    Romans 4: 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

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