Repentance

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Second, while all sin is a transgression of a law, not all transgressions are sins.

So a person can break God's commandments and you say that this is not a sin? Can you explain why you believe this?

Originally Posted by theway

Isn't "willful disobedience of God", the very definition of sin?

You said that "willful disobedience of God" is the definition of sin. Are you changing your definition?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

LOL...What are you talking about???

Exactly what I said which is that the Bible condemns your false beliefs.

Originally Posted by theway

You are the one who admitted that you had to go outside of the Bible in order to get a version which would line up with your heretical beliefs.
In fact the book you used explicitly says that it is not to be taken as scripture, or used as a Bible.

I never admitted that I go outside the Bible for my beliefs. That is you making up a lie.. What I quoted was a paraphrase of the Bible in hopes that lds such as yourself can understand it because you seem to have a difficult time with other versions. If you like I can quote the KJV which says the same thing and it too condemns your false beliefs.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

So are you saying that you have no sin and that you keep all of the commandments all of the time?

Once again, this has nothing to do with being a Saint, this is just one of your diversion tactics to keep people from focusing on your many errors.

Unless if course you are trying to say that being a Saint means that you have to be free from sin both in the past and in the present???

If that is the case, you make Christ and the Apostles out to be a liars.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So a person can break God's commandments and you say that this is not a sin? Can you explain why you believe this?

If a baby walks across a lawn where there is a clearly marked sign which says, "DO NOT WALK ON THE GR***"
Then the baby has transgressed the law, but the baby did not sin.

I hoped that after thoughly schooling you on this matter we can now move past your attempt at a diversion.

Originally Posted by Billyray

You said that "willful disobedience of God" is the definition of sin. Are you changing your definition?

I'm not changing anything, since I am right.

Sin is defined as "rebellion" or more exactly "rebellion against God and His commandments".
One can not rebel or willfully do anything without the conscious decision to rebel or to force your will over another will, in this case God's Will.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Exactly what I said which is that the Bible condemns your false beliefs.

Whatsa matter... Do you no longer believe in letting the Bible interpret itself?
The clear reading of the Bible rejects YOUR interpretation. You knew this, that is why you had to go outside the Bible instead of using any of the many Bible versions available.

Originally Posted by Billyray

I never admitted that I go outside the Bible for my beliefs. That is you making up a lie..

Yes you did... You said that you were paraphrasing from an extraBiblical book called the MESSAGE. The book itself says it is not to be used as scripture or as a Bible.

Originally Posted by Billyray

What I quoted was a paraphrase of the Bible in hopes that lds such as yourself can understand it because you seem to have a difficult time with other versions. If you like I can quote the KJV which says the same thing and it too condemns your false beliefs.

I once told you not to underestimate my ability to comprehend or my understanding of the Bible. So if we disagree on interpretation; Just ***ume you are the one who is wrong.

If you believed the KJV clearly stated what you wanted it to say... Then you would have used the KJV. The fact that you did not use the KJV or even one of your own Evangelical versions, shows us that you knew you could not defend yourself or your beliefs from the Bible.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Once again, this has nothing to do with being a Saint, this is just one of your diversion tactics to keep people from focusing on your many errors.

Let's look at our conversation to remind you what YOU said.

Originally Posted by Billyray

We are all sinners, both believers and unbelievers.

Originally Posted by theway

Speak for yourself, I am a Saint, not a sinner

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

If a baby walks across a lawn where there is a clearly marked sign which says, "DO NOT WALK ON THE GR***"
Then the baby has transgressed the law, but the baby did not sin.

So your position is that if a person isn't aware of breaking a commandment then it is not a sin. Is that your position?

Originally Posted by theway

I hoped that after thoughly schooling you on this matter we can now move past your attempt at a diversion.

Trust me you haven't "schooled" anyone since you are wrong and you are still i g n o r a n t of your error.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Then the baby has transgressed the law, but the baby did not sin.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Do you realize that your definition is in direct conflict to what the Bible says?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Whatsa matter... Do you no longer believe in letting the Bible interpret itself?
The clear reading of the Bible rejects YOUR interpretation. You knew this, that is why you had to go outside the Bible instead of using any of the many Bible versions available.

Here is the exchange that you are speaking about. In my quote I used the Message which is a paraphrase of the Bible but I can use any version and it condemns your position.

Originally Posted by theway

Here is another one of your duplicitous statements you always make. If you call yourself a sinner, then that means you are willfully disobeying God. The amount of times you willfully disobey God does not matter. Therefore, if you are willfully disobeying God, and you believe you are still saved then my first statement was correct.
In your theology, "you can disobey God and still be saved"

Originally Posted by Billyray

1 John 3
Message--(Paraphrase-not a translation of the Bible)
9-10*People conceived and brought into life by God don’t make a practice of sin. How could they? God’s seed is deep within them, making them who they are. It’s not in the nature of the God-begotten to practice and parade sin. Here’s how you tell the difference between God’s children and the Devil’s children: The one who won’t practice righteous ways isn’t from God, nor is the one who won’t love brother or sister. A simple test.

1 John 3 KJV
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The KJV says the exact same thing as the Message which I quoted before. You were wrong then when you set up a straw man when you said that Christians believe that they can be saved and refuse to obey God and you are wrong now in persisting on this topic.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

I once told you not to underestimate my ability to comprehend or my understanding of the Bible.

If you understood the Bible--like you say that you do--you wouldn't be making all of the mistakes that you are making.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So your position is that if a person isn't aware of breaking a commandment then it is not a sin. Is that your position?


Trust me you haven't "schooled" anyone since you are wrong and you are still i g n o r a n t of your error.

I think that I've already proved my point enough, so I'll be jumping off your merry-go-round ride now.

You can claim victory now if you desire...

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

If you understood the Bible--like you say that you do--you wouldn't be making all of the mistakes that you are making.

I didn't make a mistake, however I think I'll be jumping off this ride also.

You may now claim victory here also...

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Here is the exchange that you are speaking about. In my quote I used the Message which is a paraphrase of the Bible but I can use any version and it condemns your position.

1 John 3 KJV
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The KJV says the exact same thing as the Message which I quoted before. You were wrong then when you set up a straw man when you said that Christians believe that they can be saved and refuse to obey God and you are wrong now in persisting on this topic.

No thanks, not in the mood for another ride.... You win.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Do you realize that your definition is in direct conflict to what the Bible says?

Here it is again.. Notice everyone how when he is defeated on one argument he simply jumps back to the old one he already lost on, or which was never even being argued in the first place.
He'll keep going around in circles like this for days; this is why I call it The Billyray Merry-Go-Round ride.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

I think that I've already proved my point enough, so I'll be jumping off your merry-go-round ride now.

I want to confirm your position before I show you that you are wrong. Fair enough.

So your position is that if a person isn't aware of breaking a commandment then it is not a sin. Is that your position?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I want to confirm your position before I show you that you are wrong. Fair enough.

So your position is that if a person isn't aware of breaking a commandment then it is not a sin. Is that your position?

LOL....

Notice everyone how even after I said that he can claim a victory, he still wants to argue it.
This is simply because Billyray likes to argue more than he likes the truth, the answer, or even the win, so much so that he tries to keep it going on forever.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

I didn't make a mistake. . .

Then you haven't been paying attention. Your first big mistake is when you set up the straw man argument that Christians believe that they can be saved and refuse to obey the commandments. You were completely wrong on this one and you still haven't admitted your error. I even gave you a verse but you didn't seem interested in that either

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Notice everyone how even after I said that he can claim a victory, he still wants to argue it.

You are wrong in your definition of sin and you don't even believe your own definition. I could give you several examples that would prove this point.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You are wrong in your definition of sin and you don't even believe your own definition. I could give you several examples that would prove this point.

Why don't you do that then Billy... While I do something else.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Here it is again.. Notice everyone how when he is defeated on one argument he simply jumps back to the old one he already lost on, or which was never even being argued in the first place.
He'll keep going around in circles like this for days; this is why I call it The Billyray Merry-Go-Round ride.

Let's look at the discussion in context and see who is the one who made up his own definition for sin--which by the way conflicts with what the Bible says.

Originally Posted by Billyray

So a person can break God's commandments and you say that this is not a sin? Can you explain why you believe this?

Originally Posted by theway

Then the baby has transgressed the law, but the baby did not sin.

Originally Posted by Billyray

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Do you realize that your definition is in direct conflict to what the Bible says?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Why don't you do that then Billy...

Your definition of sin is willful disobedience to God's commandments. A person who is not aware of breaking a commandment has not committed sin. Now let's take that definition and I will give you an example. You go out tracking for prospective LDS converts and you come across a young women who seems interested in the LDS gospel but she was brought up in an atheist home and never went to church. She tells you that she recently had an abortion which is legal and was recommended to her by her family and friends.

Since she never set foot inside a church and was raised atheist would you agree that the abortion that she had was not a sin by your own definition of sin?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Then you haven't been paying attention. Your first big mistake is when you set up the straw man argument that Christians believe that they can be saved and refuse to obey the commandments. You were completely wrong on this one and you still haven't admitted your error. I even gave you a verse but you didn't seem interested in that either

Billyray--the faith alone are just that--faith that is alone for salvation. They do not believe that there are any acts of obedience to Jesus Christ that is necessary for His grace unto life. Like you--they believe that first one is saved--then works. Works are independent of being saved.

How are you relating obeying the commandments PRIOR to being saved? Here is how the scriptures do it:

John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.


How does that compare to your theology--it matches the LDS theology very well.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Billyray--the faith alone are just that--faith that is alone for salvation.

Those who have faith will naturally produce works but the works do not contribute for salvation.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.[/SIZE]

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.


How does that compare to your theology--it matches the LDS theology very well.

John 6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post

John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.


How does that compare to your theology--it matches the LDS theology very well.

Originally Posted by Billyray

John 6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

What is the evidence that those who obey God are not the ones who believe in Him?


Luke 6:46---King James Version (KJV)

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?