Born spiritually dead

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Now Jim, I challenge your claim that "hillbilly syntax... would make God out to be an illiterate I D I O T."

The reason I am challenging your claim, is that your claim amounts to an attack on the Bible and, indirectly on God Himself. And I won't allow that on this site without taking exception to such an attack.

Open your Bible, preferably the KJV, and read Ezekiel:

"...Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel.
So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll.
And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat,...
As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead..."
And the cherubims were lifted up.""

Only a hillbilly I DIOT would say "cause they BELLY to eat" ?

Or "an adamant harder than flint" ?

Or say cherubims when the plural of cherub is really cherubim?


Or in Exodus 34:

"...and they go a whoring after their gods"

Sounds pretty hillbillylike.

Yet you claim that such "hillbilly syntax... would make God out to be an illiterate I D I O T."

So you are saying that the HOLY BIBLE makes God out to be an illiterate I D I O T?

I disagree with your opinion.

Here are your references given by people who speak the same language that was spoken by educated people even in Smith era..

Ezekiel 3:1-9 NASB
Then He said to me, “Son of man, eat what you find; eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel.” So I opened my mouth, and He fed me this scroll. He said to me, “Son of man, feed your stomach and fill your body with this scroll which I am giving you.” Then I ate it, and it was sweet as honey in my mouth. Then He said to me, “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel, nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate. Behold, I have made your face as hard as their faces and your forehead as hard as their foreheads. Like emery harder than flint I have made your forehead. Do not be afraid of them or be dismayed before them, though they are a rebellious house.”

Exodus 34:15
otherwise you might make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land and they would play the harlot with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone might invite you to eat of his sacrifice

Just where are the errors in these p***ages now? Isn't 1830 closer to 2013 than it is to 1630.. But again remember no scholarly translator of the Bible claimed his translation was given through direct revelation, as Smith did for the BofM.. You are comparing apples to Jumbo jets.. There is no comparison between how the KJV of the Bible was TRANSLATED AND HOW THE BofM WAS SAID TO BE TRANSLATED.. It is not comparable at all.. IHS jim

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Apologette

The problem with you, Jeff, and other Mormons, is that you WILL not understand the Gospel because you are spiritually dead to it.

Is this the gospel you refer to?


Mark 1:1-4---King James Version (KJV)

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Could you explain to us why the faith alone have to deny that?

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by James Banta

You can't see that this is refers to both spiritual and physical life and death? IHS jim

Jim,

Are you suggesting that infants are spiritually dead? This would mean that babies die and go to hell, is this what you mean.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

Jim,

Are you suggesting that infants are spiritually dead? This would mean that babies die and go to hell, is this what you mean.

If Jesus is a liar I guess you could see it that was.. But what did Jesus say on the subject that excluded babied that die in infancy that separates them from the rest of us?

Matthew 19:14 NASB
But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

When I say I believe the Bile, unlike the LDS, I believe all the Bible.. You asked this question even knowing the answer before hand.. Shame on you.. IHS jim

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If Jesus is a liar I guess you could see it that was.. But what did Jesus say on the subject that excluded babied that die in infancy that separates them from the rest of us?

Matthew 19:14 NASB
But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

When I say I believe the Bile, unlike the LDS, I believe all the Bible..

So--you believe the testimony of Paul is true, when he wrote to the Galatians?


Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


I thought you told me once that a Christian could commit adultery after they were saved--and not even repent--and they would still be saved?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--you believe the testimony of Paul is true, when he wrote to the Galatians?


Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


I thought you told me once that a Christian could commit adultery after they were saved--and not even repent--and they would still be saved?

Listen closely.. The Biblical truth I am about to speak to again doesn't seem to be getting through to you.. This is so important Paul said it twice.

Romans 7:14-20
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Like Paul the Christian doesn't sin, it is sin within them that does so.. I know, I know you don't like that p***age or that theology. Know what, it doesn't matter whether you like it of NOT.. Jesus, who knew no sin became sin in our place and makes us (Those that have the faith that accesses God's grace) the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).. See the Christian has been given the righteousness of Jesus. In that righteousness we can't sin. All our sin rests only in our flesh and not on us.. The penalty for that sin was paid in full by Jesus.. Is this a license to sin?

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

But when we do sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, who is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2). By that we see that Paul and John both understood the failings of the flesh, and the price God paid to deal with it.. IHS jim