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Thread: Faith vs Works for Salvation

  1. #151
    alanmolstad
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    Libby is correct,
    all we know for sure is that we will meet Jesus...

    ..after that its a bit foggy as to what will be going on..
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 04-24-2014 at 09:51 AM.

  2. #152
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Libby is correct,
    all we know for sure is that we will meet Jesus...

    ..after that its a bit foggy as to what will be going on..
    In the strictest sense of the word we will meet Jesus.. So will the unsaved at the Great White Throne. The LOVE His children will experience from Him eclipses any mere meeting.. IHS jim

  3. #153
    The Pheonix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    I don't think, either, Mormons nor Orthodox Christians believe that we can be saved by "works" alone, so that is not really the crux of the disagreement, between these two factions.

    Here is the difference, as I see it.

    Orthodox Christians believe that faith alone is the saving principle. Works spring from faith, but do not add to salvation.

    LDS believe that faith and works are inseparable (two sides of the same coin) and, therefore, works do contribute towards salvation. There really is no salvation (in the Celestial Kingdom, at least), unless there is also obedience through works.

    Does this properly represent the crux of both sides of this argument?
    Sounds like a fair ***essment.

  4. #154
    The Pheonix
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Libby is correct,
    all we know for sure is that we will meet Jesus...

    ..after that its a bit foggy as to what will be going on..
    True, the Apostle Paul said that "in this life we see through a gl*** darkly".

  5. #155
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    There is some evidence of levels in heaven, in the Bible. . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Libby do you believe that there are 3 different heavens? What are these three heavens and what is the criteria for entrance into the first, second, and third heaven?
    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    It would be very helpful, if you actually read my posts, Billy.

    "I really have no idea what heaven will be like, other than we will finally meet Jesus Christ."
    I do read your posts and when I saw this statement by you, "There is some evidence of levels in heaven, in the Bible." I thought I would follow up with you. If you think that there is evidence for many different heavens in the Bible then why not believe that this is true?

  6. #156
    Libby
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    Anyone seen the movie "Heaven is for Real"? I saw it last Sunday and it was very interesting, as well as very touching. It's about this little five year old boy who has a vision of heaven, while he having surgery. It wasn't a NDE, because the boy never stopped breathing or anything...it was a vision.

    He meant Jesus and also many relatives...including a dead sister that he had never met and didn't even know about.

    I've read many near death experiences and most do have encounters with relatives first....and then, sometimes, with Jesus....or often just a bright, white light that brings comfort and peace.

    Another interesting thing, about this movie, at the end. There is a young girl, a very talented painter, who has visions of heaven. She painted a picture of Jesus, and this little boy, after looking at hundreds of pictures, said that picture was the closest to what Jesus looked like. The painting is called "Prince of Peace". It kind brought tears to my eyes, when I first saw this painting. It's so beautiful.

  7. #157
    Libby
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  8. #158
    The Pheonix
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    >>>>>

    I quoted dr Walter Martin...I posted the link to the video where he goes on to make this point very clear and provides the Bible verses that support this understanding.

    We are not saved by Faith alone.
    We are not saved by Works alone
    We are not saved by faith and works
    We are not saved by works and faith.

    We are ONLY saved by Grace though faith and not by works.

    Now here is the video that makes this clear.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcf1J6AJB9M .PLEASE listen to it,(it's short)and try not to ask a question that is answered on the video more clearly than i could ever match.







    case-closed...
    So you are closing the door to debate?

  9. #159
    The Pheonix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    In that picture he looks like Kenny Loggins.

  10. #160
    Libby
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    lol....a little, maybe!

    I just love the eyes. Very penetrating.

  11. #161
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    James--you connect works with salvation here. Can we not be His--and still be saved?
    I guess I do in that if WE SAY WE ARE SAVED but there in no love in us for the Poor, if we make those who are rich of more importantance to us than the poor. We actually have no faith in God.. Through our acts toward the poor and our preferential treatment of the rich we reveal to each other whether or not our faith is just something we say or something be believe (James 2:18).. IHS jim

  12. #162
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    I don't believe salvation is either by faith or by works. I believe it is by God's grace--which the scriptures show goes to those who obey Him:


    Hebrews 5:9----King James Version (KJV)


    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
    If that is the last word. We can ONLY be saved by obeying Him then we are all ****ed.. Nit one of us have been obedient. He commanded that we be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect.. How is that coming along for you? You aren't OBEYING HIM. Therefore you can never have eternal salvation! But if you would believe in Him.. Not just say you believe but really believe He would take your sin and give you His righteousness. (2 Cor 5:21).. Jesus OBEYED HIM 100%.. IHS jim

  13. #163
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostI don't believe salvation is either by faith or by works. I believe it is by God's grace--which the scriptures show goes to those who obey Him:

    Hebrews 5:9----King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    If that is the last word. We can ONLY be saved by obeying Him then we are all ****ed..
    Really? How does one collate that with the testimony of the scriptures?

    Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

  14. #164
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    It you are not trying to be deceptive then you should have no trouble answering my question. Here it is again for you.

    Ephesians 2
    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
    9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

    What do these verses say about works contributing to our salvation?
    Billy is correct here.
    Works do not add anything to the salvation of man, but rather works show that salvation has happend.
    For works come with faithk, but we are saved by Grace though faith and not by works...

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