John 1:1 real problems in there for Trinitarians

[Tom Boots]

The Hebrews did not hold a Trinity, you must show that, you must show one is three and not what they said HEAR O ISRAEL, THE LORD GOD IS ONE LORD ,nothing meant to indicate any plurality of beings or persons, wasn't in their language.
Mal. 2:10 "Have we not all ONE FATHER? hath not ONE GOD created us?..."
So it was to mean three?

John 1:18 NO MAN HATH SEEN GOD AT ANYTIME; {so the Son is not God, but just what it says "Son"} [for they saw the Son]
THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, WHICH IS IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER, HE HATH DECLARED HIM."

Jesus did not always have to make certain statements, he gave by His Spirit these truths for his Apostles to state.

BUT NO ONE SAID TRINITY, THREE PERSONS, BEINGS, PLURAL PERSONS, in describing something made up.

Jesus was as the Christ of God, the Son.
Jesus as to His Spirit nature was the LORD GOD, OUR FATHER.

ISA. 9:6, REV. 21:6-7

[cheachea]

Matthew 28:19


Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

[Tom Boots]

and you people don't do it.
Instead you repeat what is said, instead of doing what was said baptizing in the name, not names!
The name of the Father is Jesus and as well the Son and the Holy Ghost is stated to be Jesus.

Secondly the p***age is called into question regarding baptism and ***les, since Eusebius ca 315 a.d. never quoted the text as such, but rather as " Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."
This fits with Luke's statement about the Great Commision in Luke 24:47
"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations beginning in Jerusalem."
As well as it fitting with ACTS 2;38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:, 22:16.

The oldest Hebrew texts do no have Baptism or ***les either.

So the evidence is against your faulty idea, but what I like is your own Mother religion the Roman cult saying in the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA II, pg 263
"THE BAPTISMAL FORMULA WAS CHANGED FROM THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST TO THE WORDS FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE SECOND CENTURY."

I have many other similiar type quotes about the insertion of a faulty ***le baptism and it replacing the original Jesus name authentic formula.

like Schaff Herzog Enc.
Jerusalem Bible
James Moffett's N.T.
HASTINGS DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE
TOM HARPUR religion editor
The Bible Commentary
In Theology of the N.T. by R. BULTMANN
DOCTRINE AND PRACTICE OF THE EARLY CHURCH BY STUART G. HALL
and more
EVIDENCE IS AGAINST YOU CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANT HARLOT WORKS.

[cheachea]

So what you're saying is that you don't believe the Word of God.

[Tom Boots]

I believe the word of God and you don't, for if you did and if MT. 28:19 was written even as we have in most versions, then you disobey that word and do not baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, which the Apostles show by their words was in JESUS name.
You cannot show anywhere , where anyone baptized repeating those words when baptized as in ACTS 8:16 AND 19:5 and stated to be in Acts 2;38, 10:48 and 22:16.
YOU FOLKS CANNOT EVEN TELL US THE FIRST KNOWN BAPTIZED OR THE LAST IN SCRIPTURE , in those ***les.
There was a formula and Trinitarian scholars state so, you follow a CHANGED CATHOLIC formula and not the Bible.

Now the oldest Hebrew text the EVAN BOHAN SHEM TOV does not have anything in the p***age about baptism or ***les.
Eusebius ca 319 a.d. in his Proof of the Gospel 7 times in quoting the verse did not use Baptism or ***les or any reference to it, his words were close to Luke 24:47 and that teaching was to be in Jesus name.
Now some modern Trinitarians have tried to say there was no name spoken and it is by "authority only "and no verbal ascent to a name, but that is not what History shows and is a trying to hide the fact they they know they have no support for the lies of Catholic teaching.

[Tom Boots]

So the evidence is against your faulty idea, but what I like is your own Mother religion the Roman cult saying in the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA II, pg 263
"THE BAPTISMAL FORMULA WAS CHANGED FROM THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST TO THE WORDS FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE SECOND CENTURY."

TELL ME CHEACHEA, why did you avoid that quote from your mother church, that you are following a lie not from scripture, but changed by ROME!?

[cheachea]

Was it Jesus or The Father ?

You only have 2 options, Jesus or the Father. Please just say Jesus or the Father. Please just answer the question plainly.

[Tom Boots]

Jesus is the Father as the Spirit Deity and he was the man Christ Jesus the Son of God a perfect sinless man of flesh and bones.
Jesus fulfills both roles as well as being the Paraclete the comforter see 1 Jn 2:1 for that alone with Jn 14:16-26.

[cheachea]

Originally Posted by Tom Boots

Jesus is the Father as the Spirit Deity and he was the man Christ Jesus the Son of God a perfect sinless man of flesh and bones.
Jesus fulfills both roles as well as being the Paraclete the comforter see 1 Jn 2:1 for that alone with Jn 14:16-26.

Fair enough, and thank you for answering plainly.

Tom, I'm telling you man The Trinity is a true doctrine brother. I know you love The Lord Jesus Christ and I do to. Hopefully The Holy Spirit of God will reveal all Truth to you about this.

[Tom Boots]

I came out of that doctrine and there is not three persons or personages in the Bible as God , that is three gods.
See you deny that Jesus is all of deity, you hold he is a part of a deity and that there is two other beings with him, Father ( who is the only true God according to John 17:1-3, so that means you worship a untrue deity) as you hold Jesus and two others with him, and believe there will be three in heaven, not a Holy One, but a corporate deity made up to have a plural one.
Jesus is God and He begot a body and of flesh and bones and became partly his creation.
Jesus is called God and Father in Isa. 9:6 and as well a son and child, but the prophet.
Jesus himself stated he was our God and we his sons in Rev. 21:6-7.
You will also see scriptures by looking in a concordance that God is the FATHER.
The man Christ is the Son.

[cheachea]

Was Jesus being a ventriloquist in Matthew 3:16-17 when His Father said from Heaven, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" ?


Also, how did Jesus descend like a dove on Himself ?

Matthew 3;16-17
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

[Tom Boots]

No, he was not.
Jesus as the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY did not need to throw his voice or use the voice box and throat and mouth and tongue of the Son of God.
God gives voice to his presence as Spirit and does not have some body or need it to do so.
So when a sound came from heaven (atmosphere) God invisible and Omnipresent everywhere gives voice to his presence.
It was our God and Father, Jesus the Lord speaking, not Jesus Christ the Son of God a man.
Jesus Spirit is not a bird, the bird was a mere visual appearance to show the anointed Christ/Messiah and for John to know who this was.

A man, Christ Jesus was in the water, God's Spirit was given a visible appearance and temporary only for to show who this was and IS NOT A BIRD and not another person.
God's invisible presence was voiced for mankind, He is the only God present and is Spirit and is Jesus our one true God and Father.

SO THE VOICE WAS GOD THE FATHER'S, WHO IS JESUS according to Isa. 9:6 and Rev. 21:6-7 and the verses that say that God is our Father and if Jesus as to Spirit is God, then he has to be as the only true God, the Father John 17:1-3.
Tell me cheachea if the Father is the only true God, then you believe there is a false couple of other gods and Jesus is a fraud.