If one believes any infant is born a sinner--that would indicate sin imputed before or while they were being born. What event renders babies sinners upon being born?Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post--If they are born sinners--what event made them sinners that they were born as sinners?
As I said the Bible doesn't tell us what sins were committed but it clearly tells us that we ALL sin which would include children.
Do you believe the Bible when it teaches us that we ALL sin or do you simply ignore those verses?
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post--If they are born sinners--what event made them sinners that they were born as sinners?Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post---The Bible doesn't give us the exact sin that they commit only that we are ALL sinners which includes babies.Again--if one is born a sinner--that indicates a pre-existing condition. What condition exists that renders babies being born a sinner?Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---If one believes any infant is born a sinner--that would indicate sin imputed before or while they were being born. What event renders babies sinners upon being born?
All humans are born with a sinful nature, inherited from Adam and Eve. Everything and everyone are born after their own kind. Babies aren't sinners when they are born, but they are born with a sinful nature.
The Atonement of Jesus Christ freed all men from the automatic consequences that befell and condemned all men due to the Fall. All are born free now.
Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me."
Can you tell me what this verse says?
Acc. to some Bible scholars it says that David was exaggerating poetically because he was despondent over his sins. He says that his mom was a sinner even while she was conceiving him. There is not necessarily any reference to the Calvinistic "sin nature" that some people believe was programmed into our DNA while we were fetuses.
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---The Atonement of Jesus Christ freed all men from the automatic consequences that befell and condemned all men due to the Fall. All are born free now.Whatever one might believe it means--that is centuries before the Atonement of Jesus Christ--where He, as a free gift--died for all men--that they may be justified of life--freed from the consequences brought upon all men due to the Fall. It's an event referred to as the Redemption, Billyray. We are now born free. Give glory to God!
Romans 5:18---King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
No. But I can tell you what this verse means:
Romans 5:18---King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
That means all men have been justified of life through the Atonement of Jesus Christ's shedding His Blood for the sins of the whole world. All men are now born free.
This is a totally meaningless comparison.OK--Billyray questions the fact that the faith alone use the Bible but little on their forums. I told him I would do a tally and post the results.
In the ---Faith verses works for salvation--thread, the one in which Billyray made this accusation--is the one I chose for the tally. The results are as follows:
For those who are non LDS--there were approx 75 posts. 63 of those posts contained no Biblical quotes. That is a 8.5% percentage.
For me alone--I posted approx 13 times in that thread--and 13 times I included Biblical p***ages. That's a 100% percentage.
Billyray--who was right? The thread is there for all to verify the results.
Faith alone--where is your Bible?
Comments?
You simply cant compare one person's posts to a collection of posts by other people, who made comments of a variety of subjects over an unknown amount of time.
I mean for example:
I could join a topic here and post 10 posts right after the other, and while doing so I totally ignore the flow of the conversation and just simply post the same single bible verse time after time, after time.
yes, it might appear that I had a 100% rate at posting Bible verses within my comments, but in real life I added ZERO to the conversation, and the fact that I knew one Bible verse that I just keep posting does not somehow mean "Im correct", or "I have more support in the Bible."
It just means I know how to copy/paste one bible verse....(so in other words, "big deal, so what?")