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Thread: The confusing theology of the faith alone

  1. #101
    James Banta
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    [nrajeffreturns;151966]I don't deny it. I just disagree with your incorrect interpretation of what it was intended to mean.
    So I am dead wrong when I see a passage that says that salvation is NOT OF WORKS, I must agree with you that salvation requires works or my interpretation is incorrect. If I quote Roman 11:6 and sat that salvation is either by works or by grace but not both I am again incorrect? I guess so because you trust what a man teaches even over the Scripture (Ezra Taft Benson, Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, Devotional address Brigham Young University, February 26, 1980). So you then don't care at all what the Bible teaches YOU HAVE A PROPHET.. It doesn't matter he he teaches doctrines the Bible contradicts, it doesn't matter if he tells you to g after other Gods, you have a prophet and in that same address Benson teaches that "will never lead the Church astray", even thought that is just what you believed happened after the death of the Apostles in the first century.. So don't listen to me I am not a prophet. I lean on the Scripture as my only guide to truth.. So you do deny scripture because a prophet had taught you that your works must be done to gain salvation no matter what Jesus did, no matter what the scripture teach..

    I don't deny it. I just understand that it was a reference to the legalistic rules of the Torah. Since you don't understand that, you reach a different, incorrect conclusion regarding what it's supposed to mean.
    And you believe the Law doesn't count any more? Didn't Jesus teach us that His reason for coming into the world wasn't to destroy the Law but be it's fulfillment? Doesn't the scripture teach that the Law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Jesus? YES!! As we read the sermon on the mount we see that Jesus intensified the Law.. No longer is it sin just to murder, being angry is enough to break that Law.. No longer must we commit adultery, just to look at a woman in list breaks the Law.. The Law is still there, it is still in force, it is eternal. It will be by the Law a man will be judged guilty or innocent before a Holy God.. The Law of Jesus, is not the same thing. That is the Law James calls the Law of liberty, it requires God grace to enter.

    That is a false statement.
    Is it? In your own creed it says "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. [AofF 3] If this isn't the law given by God to Moses what Laws is it that this point of the LDS creed is specking? Is it speaking of even the Laws Jesus gave to us? Yes? Didn't Jesus command that we be perfect as His Father in Heaven is perfect? (Matthew 5:48).. Have you been obedient to that LAW? No? If not then you will not gain salvation because you are not obedient. There is no obedience in disobedience.. Either you are not telling me the truth that the LDS reject salvation by God's grace or Paul in Romans 11:6 was lying to us.. Salvation is either by grace or by works NOT BOTH.. You seem to always skate the issue of your own personal obedience.. I guess that is because looking at it would make you understand your lack of obedience.. Sorry jeff but you are no more obedient than I am..

    You studiously avoid the question of whether OBEDIENCE is a condition for eternal life. Why do you deny the Biblical truth that if you want eternal life, you MUST obey God's commandments? Obedience is one of the REQUIREMENTS.
    Here is the definitive answer you seem to not see in our words.. OBEDIENCE (a man's personal obedience) IS NOT A CONDITION TO GAIN ETERNAL LIFE! Is that clear enough? Obedience however is required to gain eternal life.. Sound contradictory? Jesus commanded that we be perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect.. He is the only one that ever lived that achieved that level of perfection. Either He is the Only man ever born of a woman that can be saved or 2 Corinthians 5:21 is how we can keep that commandment to be perfect.. One or the other because OBEDIENCE IS NOT FOUND IN DISOBEDIENCE.. IHS jim

  2. #102
    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    we are saved by grace though faith.....

    This means that salvation comes to use from God's grace though the channel of our faith in Him.

    This also means that works are a moot point, you dont get anything from works.



    We are saved only though the working of God's grace though our faith and not by our works that are always with our faith.


    I heard it said on the TV one time, "Saving faith saves alone, but saving faith is never alone"....

    And it is to be remembered that our faith is never alone, yet we also need to keep in mind that works do not save.



    Thus we are NOT saved via faith and works!
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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