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Thread: It still bugs me

  1. #76
    nrajeffreturns
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    hardy, har, har.

  2. #77
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    It's both, of course. If you are a paramedic and you find a dead patient but you spend an hour every day trying to resuscitate that patient, the patient is dead, AND you are wasting your time trying to breathe life into it.
    As long as the patients respond to treatment I won't give up on them.. IHS jim

  3. #78
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    hardy, har, har.

    The message of God's grace is being sounded here.. It will not come back void.. You have heard it you have seen the reason for it.. You have much more information about most Christian doctrines that 99.9% of all other LDS are missing.. In God I have hope for your salvation though Faith in the Jesus reveled in the Bible. Not the Jesus invented by a man , the man Joseph Smith.. IHS jim

  4. #79
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    The message of God's grace is being sounded here.
    Unfortunately, it's being clouded by the message of Calvinism.

    It will not come back void.
    If you really imagine yourself preaching the gospel of Christ and you feel that the LDS haven't heard that message, then I suggest that you start actually mentioning it (the good news that Jesus atoned for our sins and was resurrected and is the author of salvation to all who will obey Him) because THAT is the gospel.

    And stop complaining about "Joseph Smith this" and "Joseph Smith that" and think you are preaching the gospel by doing so.

  5. #80
    James Banta
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    [nrajeffreturns;147227]Unfortunately, it's being clouded by the message of Calvinism.
    I have allowed you to run down Calvinism on this channel enough to show you Biblical supports for that doctrine.. You have not responded by showing and different meaning to those p***ages.. They stand unchallenged.. Therefore Calvinism is a Biblical doctrine and Mormonism is anti Biblical.. If you want to challenge Calvinism by showing that it is not Biblical DO IT. If you can't try to show how mormonism is biblical.. Show me one person that is not a sinner.. Show me that Faith is not the key to grace, or that grace is the ONLY means by with salvation can be reached. You have not done so.. You can point to James 2 and I will point back that the works of James are NOT the works of mormonism. I will show you people and organizations that do the works of James 2 the name of mankind. Works are great and give proof to our statements of faith but that is the ONLY power they have..

    If you really imagine yourself preaching the gospel of Christ and you feel that the LDS haven't heard that message, then I suggest that you start actually mentioning it (the good news that Jesus atoned for our sins and was resurrected and is the author of salvation to all who will obey Him) because THAT is the gospel.
    Before I can tell you what Jesus did I have to show you who Jesus is.. AS long as you see him as a creation and not the creator of ALL things. Sharing the Gospel to you in a waste of time.. Paul on Mars Hill taught that their Gods were false before He told them about the Gospel. He held up Jesus to be God.. Not a god but THE GOD.. When you finally give up your polytheism and Hold to the Father, Sin, and Holy Spirit as THE GOD, I will start sharing the Good News with you.. I am not preaching the Gospel to you in pointing our that Smith was a liar, a cheat, and a fraud. I am showing you what Jesus said about prophets that good fruit doesn't come from a bad tree.. Many LDS think Smith was a holy man and not a skirt chasing, gl*** looking fraud, that couldn't even show that he believed in the same God that he wrote about in the BofM.

    And stop complaining about "Joseph Smith this" and "Joseph Smith that" and think you are preaching the gospel by doing so.
    Remember what Nephi said that God would not give a commandment unless he provided a way to obey the commandment? And yet God could provide a way to build the temple in Far West and excused the church from keeping the commandment because of the evil acts of mere men.. Must be a different God than the God of Nephi.. God didn't provide a way to obey him now did he? I will keep pounding on Smith for what he was a false prophet, the teacher of false gods.. IHS jim

  6. #81
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Today we were visiting a man in the hospital. Two very nice LDS men came in and gave the patient the elements of the LDS sacrament.. That's where I start to have trouble.. It's not that these men weren't committed to their church it is the elements themselves.. Levin bread, a symbol of sin, being the subst i tute for the body of the Lord? Mere water being used as a subst i tute for His blood? Is this a problem for anyone else? IHS jim
    as far as I know, you can NOT replace wine with water.

    The water was turned into wine in the bible, not the other way around...

    While I dont have any idea about the reason why a Mormon would try to replace the wine with water? I do know that he does this ridculous thing based only one some man's opinion, and not because its taught in the Bible...

  7. #82
    alanmolstad
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    as far as the different bread goes?
    That too is something that is just goofy and should not be copied.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    as far as I know, you can NOT replace wine with water.
    It's D&C 27:2 that says we can.

    For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

  9. #84
    alanmolstad
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    any idea where they get that in the Bible?

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    any idea where they get that in the Bible?
    It's not in the Bible.

  11. #86
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    It's not in the Bible.
    Oh ok,
    nuff said.

  12. #87
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    It's D&C 27:2 that says we can.

    For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my gloryŚremembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

    So you mean it is Jesus who says you can?

    In that section he say also " 11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;" So Jesus is saying that Michael the Archangel is Adam? First time I heve seen this, just curious, Erundur.

    Blessings
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacG View Post
    So you mean it is Jesus who says you can?
    Correct.

    In that section he say also " 11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;" So Jesus is saying that Michael the Archangel is Adam? First time I heve seen this, just curious, Erundur.
    Correct again. That is what we believe.

  14. #89
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Correct.


    Correct again. That is what we believe.
    I did not know that angles are considered spirit children of Mother and Father God...
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

  15. #90
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacG View Post
    I did not know that angles are considered spirit children of Mother and Father God...
    Well....are that "a cute" angle?

    I once fell in love with a cute angle

  16. #91
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Well....are that "a cute" angle?

    I once fell in love with a cute angle
    My reflex is to set you straight but you are right, I was obtuse and I think we have come full circle. Well that was about as easy as pi.
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

  17. #92
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    Let me rephrase in the form of a question:

    I did not know that angels are considered spirit children of Mother and Father God...Is that what you believe, angels are spirit children of Mother and Father God?
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

  18. #93
    alanmolstad
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    a mother and a Father God had some form of intercourse or union, and the result was angel children?

  19. #94
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    From above "In that section he say also " 11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;" So Jesus is saying that Michael the Archangel is Adam? First time I heve seen this, just curious, Erundur."

    I was asking Erundur since Adam is the angel Michael became a man can the spirit children become angels first or are spirit children synonymous with angels? I was under the impression that the spirit children were only destined to be human not angels.
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacG View Post
    Let me rephrase in the form of a question:

    I did not know that angels are considered spirit children of Mother and Father God...Is that what you believe, angels are spirit children of Mother and Father God?
    Mac--the LDS believe all spirits are Fathered by God the Father. That is Biblical:

    Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    And those spirits are the offspring of God:

    Acts 17:29----King James Version (KJV)
    29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

    The LDS also believe the angels are spirit offspring of God. Also, that all spirits have a mother in heaven.

  21. #96
    Senior Member MacG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Mac--the LDS believe all spirits are Fathered by God the Father. That is Biblical:

    Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    And those spirits are the offspring of God:

    Acts 17:29----King James Version (KJV)
    29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

    The LDS also believe the angels are spirit offspring of God. Also, that all spirits have a mother in heaven.
    Thank you for the courtesy of your reply. Interesting I was not aware the TCJCLDS held that Angels could become exalted.
    "Said I'm not what I ought to be, but I'm better, better than I used to be, I'm gettin better all the time" - Blind Boys of Alabama Ephesians 4:22-24 NASB ..."that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth"

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacG View Post
    Thank you for the courtesy of your reply. Interesting I was not aware the TCJCLDS held that Angels could become exalted.
    Hi Mac.

    The LDS believe the angels found in Revelation 12, which did not rebel-- are the spirits found within our bodies.

    The scriptures have even Christ as an Angel:

    Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)

    16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

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