Tips on how to "evangelize"

[Libby]

"Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people; before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children; before you preach to me of your p***ion for your faith, teach me about it through your comp***ion for your neighbors. In the end, I'm not as interested in what you have to tell or sell as in how you choose to live and give."

- Cory Booker, mayor of Newark, New Jersey

[nrajeffreturns]

Great words to think about. Thanks, Libby.

[Sir]

Simple truths.

thanks!

[MacG]

Originally Posted by Libby

"Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people; before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children; before you preach to me of your p***ion for your faith, teach me about it through your comp***ion for your neighbors. In the end, I'm not as interested in what you have to tell or sell as in how you choose to live and give."

- Cory Booker, mayor of Newark, New Jersey

Libby, This correlates well with "Be ready to give an answer to those who ask about the hope within.

My favorite human quote about this is "If the method violates the message, the people see through it right away." Ravi Zacharias

[Libby]

Yes, I like that quote from Ravi.

[Libby]

If the person I'm trying to influence doesn't see that "hope" in me, they will not bother to ask from whence it came. And, if they don't ask or wonder or even see that hope in me, then perhaps I need to allow Christ to show through a little more.

It what ways do we often "violate the message"?

I think judgment is one of those ways. When we are personally judgmental, it pushes people away, rather than attracting them to the Christ within.

Can you think of other ways we might violate the message of Christ?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

If the person I'm trying to influence doesn't see that "hope" in me, they will not bother to ask from whence it came. And, if they don't ask or wonder or even see that hope in me, then perhaps I need to allow Christ to show through a little more.

It what ways do we often "violate the message"?

I think judgment is one of those ways. When we are personally judgmental, it pushes people away, rather than attracting them to the Christ within.

Can you think of other ways we might violate the message of Christ?

You insist that telling someone that they are in error is bad? Explain your position to Jesus after his encounter with the Pharisees..

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

GET OFF THE LOVE FEST MACHINE AND FACE TRUTH AS WE SEE IT IN THE LORD.. IHS jim

[Libby]

1 John 4:8 "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

1 John 4:8 "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

You have been told on many occasions that there is no love in allowing anyone to go into eternity without being told what our place is before a Holy God and how God in His love repaired that relationship in Christ Jesus.. To do this with the LDS they must be taught that Jesus is the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.. Without them seeing the difference between the gods of mormonism and the God of all creation they will go into eternity without God, without forgiveness.. Is that love? I think not! the gods of mormonism must be shown to be the false gods that they are, the prophets of mormonism must be shown to be false prophets. Then many that do have a deep seeded desire to love and be loved by God can come to the cross receive forgiveness and enter into the joy of the Lord. IHS jim

[Libby]

No one listens to a "teacher" who shows no love for the person they are trying to teach.

"If the method violates the message, the people see through it right away." Ravi Zacharias

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

No one listens to a "teacher" who shows no love for the person they are trying to teach.

"If the method violates the message, the people see through it right away." Ravi Zacharias

I don't blame anyone for feeling attacked as I show them the error in a religion they have felt is God's one truth for years and years. They may get angry with me all they wish. I don't claim any power or authority to offer them salvation if they believe me.. What I tell them is to stop believing in men and believe in God (Jesus).. How does pointing out error and pointing to God rather than a man invented religion a violation of the message of God's love? Isn't mormonism worse for going out in tens of thousands of missionaries all with the false message that they (the churches of Christinity) were (are) all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”"

That is the reasons that Smith said he was given for his prophetic message and is good, true, and loving but when I tell them that Smith married and had marital relations with many women other than Emma when the BofM absolutely forbids such behavior? Or that God is a glorified man and then say that mormon doctrine and Bible doctrine are the same thing? And I should be so uncaring about what these lies will do to their eternal destiny I should walk away and allow them to enter the Lake of Fire without uttering one word of warning.. Is that what you call love? I disagree with such a definition.. IHS jim

[Libby]

This thread is not about the "message", James. It's about the method.

If the method is unloving/hateful, the message becomes null and void. You may as well be talking to the wall.

"Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people; before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children..."

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

This thread is not about the "message", James. It's about the method.

If the method is unloving/hateful, the message becomes null and void. You may as well be talking to the wall.

"Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people; before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children..."

Libby then open your eyes and see what others with the Gospel to teach have said to those that will not listen.. Read John 8:44.. Was the Lord using a gentle hand there? Can you see what I do to care for mt fellow man? You can't? Good you aren't suppose to. Never the less I will tell you I don't just sit on my hands and do nothing. I will show any Christian who asks me what I do.. Not before the world and not to those who are not in Jesus.. I will show only those who need to see my faith through my works. Or better said, the works Jesus does through me.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Libby then open your eyes and see what others with the Gospel to teach have said to those that will not listen.. Read John 8:44.. Was the Lord using a gentle hand there? Can you see what I do to care for mt fellow man? You can't? Good you aren't suppose to. Never the less I will tell you I don't just sit on my hands and do nothing. I will show any Christian who asks me what I do.. Not before the world and not to those who are not in Jesus.. I will show only those who need to see my faith through my works. Or better said, the works Jesus does through me.. IHS jim

I don't think we should be comparing ourselves to the Lord. His judgment is perfect. Ours is not.

Also, I don't believe anyone wants a laundry list of "good deeds". How we treat people is fairly evident, even online (most of the time).

I'm not judging you or anyone in particular. I just liked this quote...and, the one Mac added from Ravi Zacharias', as well. I remember hearing him talk about perverting the message with our sin. Used to listen to a lot of his talks. Very powerful speaker who always makes me think.

So, the quote I provided in the OP was not directed at anyone in particular. Just food for thought, to whomever can hear it.

[James Banta]

[Libby;147019]I don't think we should be comparing ourselves to the Lord. His judgment is perfect. Ours is not.

Why shouldn't we compare ourselves with the |Lord.. Is He not the PERFECT example? He judged the hypocrisy of the religious men of His day. I follow Him in doing the same thing.
They believed they were righteous for living the Law. The LDS believe the same thing.. They are perfect only on living by the law given to them by Joseph Smith. Going beyond faith in Jesus they add Baptism, laying on of hand and enduring to the end in righteousness.. The take the Holy God and transform him into the likeness of a man. They deny that he is one Lord and teach that there are three God.. I do judge this error, I call it what it is a a works based teaching of anti Christian polytheism.

Also, I don't believe anyone wants a laundry list of "good deeds". How we treat people is fairly evident, even online (most of the time).

In James 2 The Holy Spirit offers a list of good works that should be seen in the life of a Christian. Are you now going to dictate to God what should be included and what should be excluded from His word? When did you receive such authority?

I'm not judging you or anyone in particular. I just liked this quote...and, the one Mac added from Ravi Zacharias', as well. I remember hearing him talk about perverting the message with our sin. Used to listen to a lot of his talks. Very powerful speaker who always makes me think.

For someone that isn't being judgmental you sure have the sound of it as you condemn me for imitating the Lord in His judgments. Stop worrying what I do and follow Jesus.. That was His commandment to Peter as He questioned Jesus about John on the shores of Galilee after the resurrection.. "What if I should want Him to live till I come again, You follow me".. So stop worrying about how God uses me Libby, you follow Him!

So, the quote I provided in the OP was not directed at anyone in particular. Just food for thought, to whomever can hear it.

I say the same thing about your statement in the OP.. STOP worrying about how the Lord uses other Christians and you concentrate on following |Him how ever He decides to use you.. IHS Jim

[Libby]

Why shouldn't we compare ourselves with the |Lord..

I already said why. We do not have perfect judgment. He does. We are not omniscient. He is. His judgment is perfect. Ours will always be flawed.

Besides, we are primarily instructed to spread the "Good News", love our neighbor as ourselves, and feed the poor...not judge people. Judgment is best left to God.

STOP worrying about how the Lord uses other Christians and you concentrate on following

Who's worried? It was food for thought. Take it or leave it.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

I already said why. We do not have perfect judgment. He does. We are not omniscient. He is. His judgment is perfect. Ours will always be flawed.

Besides, we are primarily instructed to spread the "Good News", love our neighbor as ourselves, and feed the poor...not judge people. Judgment is best left to God.



Who's worried? It was food for thought. Take it or leave it.

And I showed you why we should compare ourselves with Him It is by sin we see our need for Jesus and His grace.. If we see ourselves as being as Good as Him that is evil.. Smith showed us pure evil in saying he could do something that Jesus couldn't do.. You want to tell me that he is not to be held responsible for such statements? Are we to judge murder, how about rape? Libbly there are things we must judge and no allow to grow in our society.. IHS jim

[Libby]

If there is absolute proof of evil, we should denounce it, James. But, I don't think that is really the case with Joseph Smith. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe he was a prophet and I'm sure he sinned, as we all do, but so much of his life is a question mark and can really be argued either way. I'm not going to waste my time denouncing him or the church. I figure people are mostly smart enough to figure it out for themselves...or they are genuinely getting spiritual upliftment from this church. I wish them peace and God's blessings.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

If there is absolute proof of evil, we should denounce it, James. But, I don't think that is really the case with Joseph Smith. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe he was a prophet and I'm sure he sinned, as we all do, but so much of his life is a question mark and can really be argued either way. I'm not going to waste my time denouncing him or the church. I figure people are mostly smart enough to figure it out for themselves...or they are genuinely getting spiritual upliftment from this church. I wish them peace and God's blessings.

If you believe Jesus is a pig and His temple is a mud hole in the yard and you feel uplifted in that lie you think that is fine and the people to have believed that don't need to come to he that is the Way, the Truth, and the LIFE.. The Person who teaches us that there is no salvation OUTSIDE Himself. But those that believe on the Pig are fine because of some pig spiritual "upliftment"? Libby that is liberal nonsense.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If you believe Jesus is a pig and His temple is a mud hole in the yard and you feel uplifted in that lie you think that is fine and the people to have believed that don't need to come to he that is the Way, the Truth, and the LIFE.. The Person who teaches us that there is no salvation OUTSIDE Himself. But those that believe on the Pig are fine because of some pig spiritual "upliftment"? Libby that is liberal nonsense.. IHS jim

That's interesting, James, but really has nothing to do with what I posted. I was speaking of Mormonism, specifically, not "pigs" or satanism or any other kind ism. You are indulging in hyperbole, as usual.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

That's interesting, James, but really has nothing to do with what I posted. I was speaking of Mormonism, specifically, not "pigs" or satanism or any other kind ism. You are indulging in hyperbole, as usual.

Oh Libby that was an example to show that a man could invent a different Jesus.. The Jesus Mormonism has invented is the same kind of thing. The work of a man's imagination. You know that the Bible teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God.. Any Jesus other than the One called the Mighty God the Everlasting Father, The Word that has always been with God, The God who God from everlasting to everlasting. The God if whom no other was formed before or after is a mere invention of the mind of men and is therefore am idol built in his thoughts if not of wood and stone.. I hope you understand better.. Even liberals are saved in the Kingdom of God. Not because they are any more or less valiant for the faith than any other believer but because of the Grace of God and their faith in Jesus.. Hope this helps.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

what is the concern with John 5:37?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Why shouldn't we compare ourselves with the |Lord.. Is He not the PERFECT example?

You aren't allowed to compare yourself to Jesus if you are anti-Joseph Smith and you accused him of blasphemy for comparing himself with Jesus.

They believed they were righteous for living the Law. The LDS believe the same thing..

If Jesus says that those who obey Him are righteous, do you really want to disagree with Him?
If obeying Christ isn't the way to righteousness, then pray tell us Jim: What IS the way?

Stop worrying what I do and follow Jesus.. So stop worrying about how God uses me Libby, you follow Him!

YOU stop worrying what the LDS do, Jim. Stop worrying about how God uses them, Jim, you follow Him and just worry about your own self.

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;147215]You aren't allowed to compare yourself to Jesus if you are anti-Joseph Smith and you accused him of blasphemy for comparing himself with Jesus.

You are sure right I did that.. I should be called on that because when when I do it I see my failings, and Smith saw his greatness.. I say My sins show clearly in the light of His glory. I do it and see His greatness my my unworthiness. Seems to be that I was wrong, we should all compare ourselves to Jesus.. It would make is all see just what a Mighty God He is, Make us all see that He is our everlasting Father. BUT, if it make us puff ourselves up, of it make us think the we can do ANYTHING that He couldn't do we need to be ashamed.. Even in holding a Church together Smith has paled in what the Lord Jesus has done. It hasn't even bed 200 Years since Smith organized his Church. It has been more that 2,000 years since Jesus said "...I will build my Church and even the gates of Hell won't stand against it". For this discussion I don't mind anything you might want to call the Rock.. To me the Rock is Jesus Himself but you can go ahead and call it what ever is in your mind.. So to say in a boast that "I have done more than any man has and not even Jesus did a work such as I in holding a church together". His comparison lead to boasting not to conviction.. By all means compare yourself with the Mighty God and see just how low you are in that comparison.. Don't worry if you do find that you are better than him in any way many of us will set you straight..

If Jesus says that those who obey Him are righteous, do you really want to disagree with Him?
If obeying Christ isn't the way to righteousness, then pray tell us Jim: What IS the way?

I don't disagree with him at all.. It's just that NO ONE OBEYS HIM... If we could then He wouldn't had needed to die for us.. Since we can't obey Him, Jesus (God) came up with a solution for our sins..

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

And how do we get in on such a great deal?

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

YOU stop worrying what the LDS do, Jim. Stop worrying about how God uses them, Jim, you follow Him and just worry about your own self.

Oh My that sounds like a direct command.. I have one from a Higher commanded that supersedes your commands..

Matthew 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

You say stop, He says Go. You say STOP He says Teach. Peter was told these words about John.. John believed in and followed the Lord. God used Him for His glory. It was not up to Peter to be concerned about how God was going to do so.. The LDS believe in a mult itude of Gods, three of which they hold are the Gods of this world. Since the LDS deny what Jesus taught about God (Mark 12:29), they must be taught about God and his ways from scratch.. That is the commission Jesus gave His disciples, it is the authority for my concern for the LDS.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

It's just that NO ONE OBEYS HIM...

If you are correct, then He is the author of salvation to no one. (But you are not correct, so hallelujah)

Since the anti-LDS deny what Paul taught about Jesus (Heb.5:9), they must be taught about Jesus and his ways from scratch.

And how do we get in on such a great deal?

By loving Him and knowing. And if you love Him and want to know Him and thus have eternal life (John 17:3), you need to keep His commandments. In other words, obey Him. How else do you expect Him to tell you "Well done, good and faithful servant" ??

You say stop, He says Go.

Actually, YOU said, to Libby, "Stop worrying what I do and follow Jesus.."

Since the LDS deny what Jesus taught about God (Mark 12:29), they must be taught about God and his ways from scratch.

Uh, LDS don't deny this:

Mark 12:29 Common English Bible (CEB)

29 Jesus replied, “The most important one is Israel, listen! Our God is the one Lord,

LDS believe that the God of Israel was the one Lord, called Yahweh or Jehovah, who we know as Jesus Christ.


Nice try, but no cigar.