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Thread: Tips on how to "evangelize"

  1. #76
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    One error in an entire book makes it inerrant?
    I think you misread it. One error makes a book NOT inerrant.

    That is the argument of the Bible, BoM, D&C and Pearl of Great Price. Moroni admits errors and say "if they be any condemn, not the word (or things) of God". So where are you going with this?
    I was going the same place you are going with it: Just because a book has some errors in it, doesn't mean it should be condemned. Only God is error free. The men He commands to do things, such as record events, should not be expected to be as infallible as God Himself is.

  2. #77
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    I think you misread it. One error makes a book NOT inerrant.


    I was going the same place you are going with it: Just because a book has some errors in it, doesn't mean it should be condemned. Only God is error free. The men He commands to do things, such as record events, should not be expected to be as infallible as God Himself is.
    Either Jesus is God or He is not.. If He is then any promises He gives are divine and will be fulfilled. To deny that Jesus promised that heaven and earth would p*** away but that His word would not p*** away is to deny that Jesus is God. This divine promise is strong evidence that the Bible is pure, that it's message is just what God's original intent is.. IHS jim

  3. #78
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Either Jesus is God or He is not..
    He is deity like His Father before Him is.

    If He is then any promises He gives are divine and will be fulfilled.
    Yes. Your problem is that you misunderstood what he meant.

    To deny that Jesus promised that heaven and earth would p*** away but that His word would not p*** away is to deny that Jesus is God.
    To deny that the Bible has been altered over the centuries is to deny reality. To believe that Jesus ever promised that the Bible would never be altered, is to suffer from a misconception.

  4. #79
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    To deny that the Bible has been altered over the centuries is to deny reality.
    But you have yet to prove that it has been altered and when this so called alteration took place.

  5. #80
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    But you have yet to prove that it has been altered and when this so called alteration took place.
    Didn't you already admit that the LATE ADDITION of the Johannine Comma occurred? When you add additional words to a book, you alter it, wouldn't you agree?

  6. #81
    James Banta
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    [nrajeffreturns;148330]He is deity like His Father before Him is.
    So He was made a God AFTER the Father was already God? Why in the long ago ancient past before the world was made did God do that which he said would never be done.. Why after He was already God did He form another God? Jesus is God as the Father is God (Isaiah 43:10).. He is the God that explained His being though the Psalmist.

    Psalm 90:2
    Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


    Yes. Your problem is that you misunderstood what he meant.
    I say the He means what He says.. I don't look for other meaning as mormonism has which is seen clearly in it's interpretation of Ezekiel 37 and Isaiah 29.. In Ezekiel God Himself gives the correct interpretation of the sticks, and in Isaiah not once is it taught that the unlearned man can read the book.. But That doesn't matter, mormonism sees a p***age they can force their doctrine into and they ***ign their own incorrect meaning to it. Your religion doesn't have a great record of correctly dividing the word of truth..

    To deny that the Bible has been altered over the centuries is to deny reality. To believe that Jesus ever promised that the Bible would never be altered, is to suffer from a misconception.
    You really are having a time with your faith in God aren't you.. I agree that the wording has been changed.. I demand that not one of the smallest parts of the message that God has recorded for us has changed at all.. A man could say "I lost my wallet, but found it a few minuets laying on the floor".. Or He could say "I unknowingly dropped my billfold in the kitchen, but I went back and discovered it laying there.. Are those statement different? YES!! Do they convey the same message? YES!! In the KJV of the Bible all the words used are different from the original language. The KJV is all in English, the Original language was (For the NT) Greek.. Does it contain the original meaning.. YES!! That is if you have faith in the promises of Jesus. What misconceptions are there when Jesus promised that His words would never p*** away (Matthew 24:35).. You deny that the straight forward meaning is what is meant so please explain it.. But you never do such things so I won't hold my breath.. IHS jim

  7. #82
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Didn't you already admit that the LATE ADDITION of the Johannine Comma occurred? When you add additional words to a book, you alter it, wouldn't you agree?
    How does this change the word? What differing message is there in 1 John 5:7-8 than we find in the Bible generally?

    1 John 5:7-8
    For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
    And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
    I have shown many times that the Father is called God in the Scripture, So is the Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.. Yet The Bible is also clear that there is One God not three.. 1 John 5:7 is supported by the rest of scripture.. The Spirit, the water and the Blood all agree as the way to gain forgiveness of sin.. Each shown God's grace through Faith in Jesus.. So verse eight is also supported in the scripture.. How is agreement to the whole an alteration of God's message to us? IHS jim

  8. #83
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    How does this change the word? What differing message is there in 1 John 5:7-8 than we find in the Bible generally?
    I have shown many times that the Father is called God in the Scripture, So is the Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.. Yet The Bible is also clear that there is One God not three.. 1 John 5:7 is supported by the rest of scripture.. The Spirit, the water and the Blood all agree as the way to gain forgiveness of sin.. Each shown God's grace through Faith in Jesus.. So verse eight is also supported in the scripture.. How is agreement to the whole an alteration of God's message to us? IHS jim
    So your litmus test for infallibility and immutability of scripture is:

    "It's okay to add stuff or take away stuff, as long as the "message" isn't changed."

    How does Rev. 22 fit into your test?

    I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

  9. #84
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Didn't you already admit that the LATE ADDITION of the Johannine Comma occurred? When you add additional words to a book, you alter it, wouldn't you agree?
    How on earth do you propose that it altered the Bible since we know that it was not in the original?

  10. #85
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post---Didn't you already admit that the LATE ADDITION of the Johannine Comma occurred? When you add additional words to a book, you alter it, wouldn't you agree?
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    How on earth do you propose that it altered the Bible since we know that it was not in the original?
    Are you claiming that all Bibles that have the Johannine Comma are altered? Are altered Bibles still inerrant?

  11. #86
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    So your litmus test for infallibility and immutability of scripture is:

    "It's okay to add stuff or take away stuff, as long as the "message" isn't changed."

    How does Rev. 22 fit into your test?

    I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
    The word is the message of God.. If that message remains true to it's original meaning then nothing has been added, nothing has been taken away.. The teaching that there is ONE GOD is clear in the Bible. Moses taught it, Isaiah revealed it, Jesus confirmed it.. The LDS have taking that away from the teaching of the Bible.. They have changed it to either "Oh, that is speaking of only this world", or "That was one of the mistranslations we find in the Bible". There is Biblical truth that teaches that God is eternally God.. That He has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting (Psalm 90:2). But Joseph Smith tells us that he will teach us how God BECAME GOD.. He taught that all we have known about God is wrong. He said "I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.(History of the Church, Vol 6 Vol. 6, p. 302-304).. Young taught that Adam is our Father and our God and the only God with whom we have to do (JofD, Vol. 1, p. 50).. Since both these men called themselves prophets of God, these professed teachings are changes in the message of God and fall into the plagues we see in Revelation 22:18..

    I say that changed don't have to be in the Bible.. They are in the teachings of a man that has convinced others that He has a mome perfect connection to God than all others.. Such contradictory teachings are the changes we are warned of in the Bible.. If the message is unaffected the word hasn't changed.. If it was any other way we would have to see every translation out of the original language and being a change.. Latin, German, French, English... are not even the same language family as NT Greek. Every verse would be under the curse of the Revelation. It must be a warning of not changing the meaning, the intent of God.. Nothing else makes and sense.. IHS jim

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