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Thread: Why I like this forum so much

  1. #1
    nrajeffreturns
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    Default Why I like this forum so much

    When I compare this forum with the anti-LDS forum at C@$m, I see similarities and differences.

    A Similarity: Both sites have pro-LDS and anti-LDS trying to shoot holes in the other side's claims.

    One big difference I see is that here, both sides can make their case without getting handicapped by the double-standard-ridden Infraction Nazis, aka Carm's "Moderator 18" and "4Him."

    Apparently at Carm, they are afraid of a fair fight between the pro- and anti- LDS.

    Here, both sides can freely make their arguments, and may the best argument win, regardless which side made it. I like that a lot.

    At Carm, one has to put up with being banned by the terrible moderating for doing nothing wrong, while seeing the other side get off with no such punishment, such as this: (Note that Martureo's asking me whether I sin isn't slammed for being off topic, and his insults are condoned)

    Dear NRA-Jeff, You have received an infraction at Christian Discussion Forums | CARM Christian Forums | Christian Chat.
    Reason: General Rule violations: Check your post for possible violation of rule #29, or Links, #17, or All caps, or #23, English only, or #32, Plagiarism.
    -------off topic -------
    This infraction is worth 10 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

    Original Post:
    http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=4659447
    Quote Originally Posted by martureo
    Since you just quoted Romans chapter 6, I'm getting the feeling that you've never actually read Romans all the way through.

    You shouldn't trust your feelings. At least that's what a lot of your pals keep saying.

    If you have, maybe you'd better slow down.
    I can go as slowly as you need to.

    By whom/what were believers made righteous?
    Irrelevant who MADE them righteous. Either they are righteous, or they aren't. You seem to have just conceded that. If someone gives you immortality by MAKING you immortal, then by what stretch of logic would you conclude that it's not REALLY yours, it's just God's immortality and "there are none immortal, no not one" ? Try to be consistent. It's good for the soul.

    Do you not understand that we cannot both be right? Either I am misreading Romans or you are.

    Then, given that dichotomy, my vote is that you are the one who is misreading it.

    And who does righteousness?

    Lots of people. Everyone who gets eternal life is REQUIRED to do works of righteousness, and to become righteous, even as He is righteous. Even you aren't exempt from that. Hope that doesn't come as too much of a shock.

    I wonder, do you sin?
    Sometimes. But that doesn't prevent me from doing some of the good works that Jesus commands of anyone who wants to be His disciple. Nor does it prevent me from obeying His commandment to repent. Nor does it preclude me from attaining, "through Christ who strengthens me," righteousness.
    That's the problem with Calvinism: It pays lip service to Bible verses that clearly teach that eternal life is conditioned on righteousness, but it spends most of its time conning people into thinking that righteousness is an impossible commandment and should be avoided like the plague.
    Last edited by nrajeffreturns; 08-22-2013 at 07:08 PM.

  2. #2
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    When I compare this forum with the anti-LDS forum at C@$m, I see similarities and differences.

    A Similarity: Both sites have pro-LDS and anti-LDS trying to shoot holes in the other side's claims.

    One big difference I see is that here, both sides can make their case without getting handicapped by the double-standard-ridden Infraction Nazis, aka Carm's "Moderator 18" and "4Him."

    Apparently at Carm, they are afraid of a fair fight between the pro- and anti- LDS.

    Here, both sides can freely make their arguments, and may the best argument win, regardless which side made it. I like that a lot.

    At Carm, one has to put up with being banned by the terrible moderating for doing nothing wrong, while seeing the other side get off with no such punishment, such as this: (Note that Martureo's asking me whether I sin isn't slammed for being off topic, and his insults are condoned)



    Quote Originally Posted by martureo
    Since you just quoted Romans chapter 6, I'm getting the feeling that you've never actually read Romans all the way through.

    You shouldn't trust your feelings. At least that's what a lot of your pals keep saying.

    If you have, maybe you'd better slow down.
    I can go as slowly as you need to.

    By whom/what were believers made righteous?
    Irrelevant who MADE them righteous. Either they are righteous, or they aren't. You seem to have just conceded that. If someone gives you immortality by MAKING you immortal, then by what stretch of logic would you conclude that it's not REALLY yours, it's just God's immortality and "there are none immortal, no not one" ? Try to be consistent. It's good for the soul.

    Do you not understand that we cannot both be right? Either I am misreading Romans or you are.

    Then, given that dichotomy, my vote is that you are the one who is misreading it.

    And who does righteousness?

    Lots of people. Everyone who gets eternal life is REQUIRED to do works of righteousness, and to become righteous, even as He is righteous. Even you aren't exempt from that. Hope that doesn't come as too much of a shock.

    I wonder, do you sin?
    Sometimes. But that doesn't prevent me from doing some of the good works that Jesus commands of anyone who wants to be His disciple. Nor does it prevent me from obeying His commandment to repent. Nor does it preclude me from attaining, "through Christ who strengthens me," righteousness.
    That's the problem with Calvinism: It pays lip service to Bible verses that clearly teach that eternal life is conditioned on righteousness, but it spends most of its time conning people into thinking that righteousness is an impossible commandment and should be avoided like the plague.
    You are welcome here Jeff.. I don't see need to complain here about other sites. You don't like them don't go to them.. I like this site as well. I am a small church person. After a church grows to over 100 in regular attendance I start looking for my next church I can help to grow.. WM is small, I like that about it.. Will it die? Yes, eventually all things of this world die. Is it's death imminent? No, I don't see that.. For quite sometime just a few of the Christian here chatted about what we saw were issues in the LDS church and how best to reach the LDS people. If we have LDS here that want to defend their faith we are willing to talk to them too.. The prophecies of WM going away were nearly fulfilled because Jill got tired of trying to keep order here. But with our own desire for civility her constant babysitting has not been required. She is again adding members when she is asked to do so but she isn't needed to spend all her day watching over us.. So welcome, sit on down and stay awhile.. Defend mormonism attack the Christian teachings, just be civil and we will be able to keep WM around for a good long time.. IHS jim

  3. #3
    Snow Patrol
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    Yeah, I agree. Now all we need to do is get the old gang back together...Bhaktarob, Seebok, 2buyus.

  4. #4
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Patrol View Post
    Yeah, I agree. Now all we need to do is get the old gang back together...Bhaktarob, Seebok, 2buyus.
    They are welcome.. Needed to keep this site in operation, no. Welcome to take part, yes.. IHS jim

  5. #5
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Needed to keep this site in operation, no. . IHS jim
    I think James keeps repeating this in hopes that it will ring true, because we have already seen from other examples in the past that without the LDS posters an anti-mormon forum will die. Which logically means the LDS are needed in order to stay alive.

  6. #6
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    I think James keeps repeating this in hopes that it will ring true, because we have already seen from other examples in the past that without the LDS posters an anti-mormon forum will die. Which logically means the LDS are needed in order to stay alive.
    I remember the good old days when this was just an anti-Catholic forum.

  7. #7
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    I remember the good old days when this was just an anti-Catholic forum.
    I think I'd rather be mormon than catholic. Although the catholic pray for the dead, and the mormon baptize the dead. Both are wrong, but hey they aint listening to me, or the Holy Bible.

  8. #8
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Patrol View Post
    Yeah, I agree. Now all we need to do is get the old gang back together...Bhaktarob, Seebok, 2buyus.
    They are occasionally in contact with me. I have contact info for all 3 if you ever want to track them down and say hi. I bet it would make their day.

  9. #9
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    I think James keeps repeating this in hopes that it will ring true, because we have already seen from other examples in the past that without the LDS posters an anti-mormon forum will die. Which logically means the LDS are needed in order to stay alive.
    Then be my guest and leave.. It will be like pulling a finger out of a gl*** of water.. The level falls insignificantly but the hole you made in the water fills in right behind you.. Would the forum be as active, no not near, but we could still help each other with research to help in witnessing situations. Building each other up is another thing that WM forum can do and stay alive in so doing.. You doubt that ok, leave COME BACK IN A YEAR OR SO AND SEE THAT WE WILL STILL BE HERE.. IHS jim

  10. #10
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    They are occasionally in contact with me. I have contact info for all 3 if you ever want to track them down and say hi. I bet it would make their day.
    One more thing the forum has given to you, friendships.. I am glad for that.. Congrats.. IHS jim

  11. #11
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    One more thing the forum has given to you, friendships.. I am glad for that.. Congrats.. IHS jim
    Yes indeed, good point. That is a good thing for sure.

  12. #12
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Yes indeed, good point. That is a good thing for sure.
    It would seem that no matter how much sir demand that this forum is dead, it lives and give back more than it asks.. IHS jim

  13. #13
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Then be my guest and leave.. It will be like pulling a finger out of a gl*** of water.. The level falls insignificantly but the hole you made in the water fills in right behind you.. Would the forum be as active, no not near, but we could still help each other with research to help in witnessing situations. Building each other up is another thing that WM forum can do and stay alive in so doing.. You doubt that ok, leave COME BACK IN A YEAR OR SO AND SEE THAT WE WILL STILL BE HERE.. IHS jim
    James, I don't doubt that YOU will still be here. Even if nobody else ever posted again, you would still post even if to yourself. It's a sad state, really, but I accept it.

    The rest of your rant about building each other up, well, I understand you see it that way, but most of us know that there are maybe 2 other non-LDS posters here (one of which is realfakehair, who could probably use some building up from you). So have at it!

    Honestly, I grow tired of arguing with those twice as old as me who are stubborn and set in their bitter ways and opinions. It's pitiful.

  14. #14
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    James, I don't doubt that YOU will still be here. Even if nobody else ever posted again, you would still post even if to yourself. It's a sad state, really, but I accept it.

    The rest of your rant about building each other up, well, I understand you see it that way, but most of us know that there are maybe 2 other non-LDS posters here (one of which is realfakehair, who could probably use some building up from you). So have at it!

    Honestly, I grow tired of arguing with those twice as old as me who are stubborn and set in their bitter ways and opinions. It's pitiful.
    Without any evidence you fall for a 19th century hoax and you call me pitiful? There is no evidence that ANY part of the BofM is what it says it is.. No Patriarch from a non priesthood holding family would ever offer a sacrifice to God especially at a temple dedicated to an idol.. Then the name.. Mormonism like to point proudly at the name Nahom and see a similar name found in the initials NHM.. Smith then said this place is called Nahom. Where did he get that look at the minor prophets of the OT. See it? "Nahum" .. It also matches up with NHM. But look at this there is a name for a place in the video game "World of Warcraft" and it is spelled just as the LDS church teaches "NAHOM". Is WofW a true story of the ancient world because of having that name in it's story line? Please!!! It is fiction there, it's also fiction in the BofM..

    Maybe those twice your age have twice your wisdom. You understand that your stubborn refusal to believe what the Bible teaches even about something as basic as the nature of God show that you lack both knowledge and wisdom.. The reason I added these specifics is because I personally hate general claims that have no basis in fact used in a discussion as you have done in your post. That makes me believe that you gave no facts at all.. That is pitiful IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 08-24-2013 at 07:18 PM.

  15. #15
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Without any evidence you fall for a 19th century hoax and you call me pitiful? There is no evidence that ANY part of the BofM is what it says it is.. No Patriarch from a non priesthood holding family would ever offer a sacrifice to God especially at a temple dedicated to an idol.. Then the name.. Mormonism like to point proudly at the name Nahom and see a similar name found in the initials NHM.. Smith then said this place is called Nahom. Where did he get that look at the minor prophets of the OT. See it? "Nahum" .. It also matches up with NHM. But look at this there is a name for a place in the video game "World of Warcraft" and it is spelled just as the LDS church teaches "NAHOM". Is WofW a true story of the ancient world because of having that name in it's story line? Please!!! It is fiction there, it's also fiction in the BofM..

    Maybe those twice your age have twice your wisdom. You understand that your stubborn refusal to believe what the Bible teaches even about something as basic as the nature of God show that you lack both knowledge and wisdom.. The reason I added these specifics is because I personally hate general claims that have no basis in fact used in a discussion as you have done in your post. That makes me believe that you gave no facts at all.. That is pitiful IHS jim
    1) Funny you should make so many claims, and yet you were once a believer in all those things.

    2) I ***ure you that just because you are twice as old as me, that does not mean you have twice the wisdom. Most of your posts here and at CARM have proved otherwise. However, if it makes you feel better to say that and helps you believe it to be true, more power to you.

  16. #16
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    1) Funny you should make so many claims, and yet you were once a believer in all those things.

    2) I ***ure you that just because you are twice as old as me, that does not mean you have twice the wisdom. Most of your posts here and at CARM have proved otherwise. However, if it makes you feel better to say that and helps you believe it to be true, more power to you.
    Again you make unsupported charges without showing any evidence that what you are saying is the truth.. In believing all the NONSENSE taught by mormonism. All the stories of Joseph Smith seeing Gods, and angels, and finding golden book that had to weigh at least 50 LBS; tucking them under one arm, running with them, fighting off multiple attackers. I have had to carry 50# bags of grain. I have seem many a dock worker at Intermountian Farmers Coop. handle them. Not one of them tucks them under their arm and runs with them much less fights off attacking while doing so.. And that isn't even as heavey as the church admits the plates weighed..

    Yes there was a time when I never thought about the problems with the claims mormonism makes. I was like so many that blindly followed and accepted everything the leadership taught.. Now I THINK, Now I QUESTION.. I have see that is is right to do so.. Jesus never did anything in secret. All he did He did before all the people. Smith did all his works in secret. That is what he did do.. The translation was all done in secret, his revelations all came in secret.. Unlike the Apostles in the book of acts Smith preformed no wondrous works of the Holy Spirit.. All he has in the BofM, the D&C, and the PofPG.. No healing recorded in any of that. No evidence of tongues.. NOTHING to show his Apostleship as Peter and Paul showed so clearly.. Yes once blind to reality as you are now. I have repented of that sin.. IHS jim

  17. #17
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Again you make unsupported charges without showing any evidence that what you are saying is the truth.. In believing all the NONSENSE taught by mormonism. All the stories of Joseph Smith seeing Gods, and angels, and finding golden book that had to weigh at least 50 LBS; tucking them under one arm, running with them, fighting off multiple attackers. I have had to carry 50# bags of grain. I have seem many a dock worker at Intermountian Farmers Coop. handle them. Not one of them tucks them under their arm and runs with them much less fights off attacking while doing so.. And that isn't even as heavey as the church admits the plates weighed..
    For someone with twice the wisdom of me, you seem to be simply regurgitating the anti-LDS talking points from CARM/ Russ Bales.

    Yes there was a time when I never thought about the problems with the claims mormonism makes. I was like so many that blindly followed and accepted everything the leadership taught.. Now I THINK, Now I QUESTION.. I have see that is is right to do so.. Jesus never did anything in secret. All he did He did before all the people. Smith did all his works in secret. That is what he did do.. The translation was all done in secret, his revelations all came in secret.. Unlike the Apostles in the book of acts Smith preformed no wondrous works of the Holy Spirit.. All he has in the BofM, the D&C, and the PofPG.. No healing recorded in any of that. No evidence of tongues.. NOTHING to show his Apostleship as Peter and Paul showed so clearly.. Yes once blind to reality as you are now. I have repented of that sin.. IHS jim
    More CARM/ anti-LDS talking points. I can tell you've been reading CARM recently (the recent charge that Joseph Smith never performed any miracles or healings).

    The notion that Jesus never did anything in secret is kind of funny since if he did it wouldn't be written down. Kind of like all the years between his youth and when he began his ministry in the Bible...there is no record of it. But logically He was doing stuff. So to us it's a secret. And what about the 40 days after his resurrection? He was doing lots of things that we don't know about.

    Anyway, just some points. I really don't feel like arguing your anti-Mormon mantras and talking points and unoriginal thoughts.

  18. #18
    James Banta
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    Sir;147380]For someone with twice the wisdom of me, you seem to be simply regurgitating the anti-LDS talking points from CARM/ Russ Bales.
    By all means don't believe me and my Anti talking points.. Who could imagine I would be FAIR.

    Both witness testimony and the material of which the plates were made indicates that the weight of the plates was 40-60 lbs, and not 200 lbs. (fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms/Gold_plates)

    I see because you disagree with even FAIR you call taking their estimation of the plates weight and call it an anti-LDS talking point.. Sorry but your bigotry is shown through more than you would have it.. More CARM/ anti-LDS talking points. I can tell you've been reading CARM recently (the recent charge that Joseph Smith never performed any miracles or healings).
    The Bible is filled with the Miracles of Jesus and the Apostles. Yet not one expressed in the D&C, or the History of the Church. Amy one wanting to see them must go to diaries and journals of third parties such as these:

    In the spring of 1831, Smith was said to have healed the lame arm of the wife of John Johnson but this was never recorded as the work of God through Smith.. In October of 1835 Smith related an experience in which he said the Lord gave him the power to raise his father from his deathbed. An event not recorded nor seen by anyone else.. July 23, 1839 Smith said he charged his brother and George Albert Smith to go and heal some 60 persons and yet this to is mere legend with no one coming forward to say they witnesses the event or even the one who was said to cured.

    I believe in Miracles more than most people and hold that the following were miracles of God.

    A Man on the south coast of Australia had a serious Heart Attack and was pronouced dead after all modern medicine could do to save him. His wife a believer offered a prayer "Lord Jesus, he is only 39, I am only 38 and we have a 10-year-old boy. I need a miracle. As soon as she said this it was as though someone had breathed life into me again and my heartbeat came back,” (christianpost.com/news/modern-day-miracles-51263/).

    There are many examples of the miraculous works of the Holy Spirit on that page. Works of God, not of some man invented priesthood. Miracles given through Faith in Jesus.. These are the continuation of the works that Jesus promised, the Works of the Holy Spirit thought the years since He came upon the Church. These were worked in the open and testifies not just by one or two people but my tens who witnessed them.. It is a prayer of faith that raise up the sick.. Not a priesthood, not some self appointed apostle.. God is Good and will have grace on those He has chosen for His Grace.. Smith preformed no such works for he denied the one true and living God, the creator of all things.. ALL not some.. That include even the elements by which all other things exist..

    The notion that Jesus never did anything in secret is kind of funny since if he did it wouldn't be written down. Kind of like all the years between his youth and when he began his ministry in the Bible...there is no record of it. But logically He was doing stuff. So to us it's a secret. And what about the 40 days after his resurrection? He was doing lots of things that we don't know about.

    Anyway, just some points. I really don't feel like arguing your anti-Mormon mantras and talking points and unoriginal thoughts.
    You have to make a choice here.. You believe what Jesus said and trust that even those things that were not reported to us in His word were not done in secret or Jesus is a liar. One or the other (John 18:20).. Still there is record that Jesus did miraculous work among the people. There was nothing secret, private, or even too sacred not to show to the whole world.. You can try to side step this issue but it will nag you because of YOUR UNWILLINGNESS to teach even that which your untrained young mind can find to support your church's lies.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 08-25-2013 at 02:15 PM.

  19. #19
    Sir
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    Sorry, I really couldn't even bring myself to read your lengthy diatribe.

  20. #20
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    Sorry, I really couldn't even bring myself to read your lengthy diatribe.
    You won't read it, you don't know what it is.. Calling it a diatribe is prejudice.. Are you a bigot? IHS jim

  21. #21
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    You won't read it, you don't know what it is.. Calling it a diatribe is prejudice.. Are you a bigot? IHS jim
    Buwahahahaha.......

    ....and THAT is why I won't read it. My IQ seems to get lower with every post of yours I read.

  22. #22
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    Buwahahahaha.......

    ....and THAT is why I won't read it. My IQ seems to get lower with every post of yours I read.
    I wouldn't want you to get any d u m b e r than you were when you got here.. You should leave this forum and never come back as a means of self protection.. Poor man.. I feel for you.. But I can tell from your unwillingness to provide any support got your claim that you must not have to much on the ball.. Or maybe it's that you are just lazy.. Which is worse? Lazy I think. it's a decision to not be obedient.. IHS jim

  23. #23
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    I wouldn't want you to get any d u m b e r than you were when you got here.. IHS jim
    James, as silly as it is, I knew that was going to be your response as I was writing mine. And frankly, coming from you, it simply makes me smile. Just remember that comment the next time you write an incoherent post and ramble on about inane things (which will probably be sooner rather than later).

  24. #24
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    James, as silly as it is, I knew that was going to be your response as I was writing mine. And frankly, coming from you, it simply makes me smile. Just remember that comment the next time you write an incoherent post and ramble on about inane things (which will probably be sooner rather than later).

    Ok sir to you I am silly and incoherent. That excuses you from reading anything I post. You don't need to think, you don't need to give any reason for your faith as God commands us though His word.. You can be lazy and just name call people without even trying to know what is going on.. Oh the joys of I G N O R A N C E.. IHS jim

  25. #25
    MacG
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    When I compare this forum with the anti-LDS forum at C@$m, I see similarities and differences.

    A Similarity: Both sites have pro-LDS and anti-LDS trying to shoot holes in the other side's claims.

    One big difference I see is that here, both sides can make their case without getting handicapped by the double-standard-ridden Infraction Nazis, aka Carm's "Moderator 18" and "4Him."

    Apparently at Carm, they are afraid of a fair fight between the pro- and anti- LDS.

    Here, both sides can freely make their arguments, and may the best argument win, regardless which side made it. I like that a lot.

    At Carm, one has to put up with being banned by the terrible moderating for doing nothing wrong, while seeing the other side get off with no such punishment, such as this: (Note that Martureo's asking me whether I sin isn't slammed for being off topic, and his insults are condoned)



    Quote Originally Posted by martureo
    Since you just quoted Romans chapter 6, I'm getting the feeling that you've never actually read Romans all the way through.

    You shouldn't trust your feelings. At least that's what a lot of your pals keep saying.

    If you have, maybe you'd better slow down.
    I can go as slowly as you need to.

    By whom/what were believers made righteous?
    Irrelevant who MADE them righteous. Either they are righteous, or they aren't. You seem to have just conceded that. If someone gives you immortality by MAKING you immortal, then by what stretch of logic would you conclude that it's not REALLY yours, it's just God's immortality and "there are none immortal, no not one" ? Try to be consistent. It's good for the soul.

    Do you not understand that we cannot both be right? Either I am misreading Romans or you are.

    Then, given that dichotomy, my vote is that you are the one who is misreading it.

    And who does righteousness?

    Lots of people. Everyone who gets eternal life is REQUIRED to do works of righteousness, and to become righteous, even as He is righteous. Even you aren't exempt from that. Hope that doesn't come as too much of a shock.

    I wonder, do you sin?
    Sometimes. But that doesn't prevent me from doing some of the good works that Jesus commands of anyone who wants to be His disciple. Nor does it prevent me from obeying His commandment to repent. Nor does it preclude me from attaining, "through Christ who strengthens me," righteousness.
    That's the problem with Calvinism: It pays lip service to Bible verses that clearly teach that eternal life is conditioned on righteousness, but it spends most of its time conning people into thinking that righteousness is an impossible commandment and should be avoided like the plague.
    hey! hey! hey! I am seeing a lot of caps in these here replies...I am going to have to report all of you to carm?!!!

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