What does it mean

[James Banta]

What does it mean to "Do all you can do".. In medicine it means to expend every possible means to prevent the death of a patient. In our daily work it means to do everything possible to be successful. So what does it mean in mormon salvation? It is commanded in the LDS scripture:

2 Nephi 25:23
For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

Isn't there always one more dollar that can be given to build the "kingdom". Isn't there one more person living in poverty that can be helped? Isn't there always one more page of scripture that could be read. One less bit of anger we could avoid? One less sin we could commit? The answer for me is I can never do ALL I CAN DO. But I have always agreed with the LDS at least in my flesh that they are much better people than I am a man.. So again I leave you with the question what does it mean to "Do all you can do".. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Is this really that confusing of a question? Doing all one can do depends on the individual. Yes, one can take things to extremes and focus everything on one aspect such as feeding the sick, but if he neglects his family and other responsibilities then he is not doing all he can do. If one wastes countless hours a day playing computer games, then one is not doing all he can do. I think when someone takes a true accounting of their life, they KNOW whether they are doing all they can do.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What does it mean to "Do all you can do".. In medicine it means to expend every possible means to prevent the death of a patient. In our daily work it means to do everything possible to be successful. So what does it mean in mormon salvation? It is commanded in the LDS scripture:

2 Nephi 25:23
For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

Isn't there always one more dollar that can be given to build the "kingdom". Isn't there one more person living in poverty that can be helped? Isn't there always one more page of scripture that could be read. One less bit of anger we could avoid? One less sin we could commit? The answer for me is I can never do ALL I CAN DO. But I have always agreed with the LDS at least in my flesh that they are much better people than I am a man.. So again I leave you with the question what does it mean to "Do all you can do".. IHS jim

Well, lets see what God believes is all we can do.

When it comes to money---he asks for a t..ithe--that's 10%. Then he states: Mal 3:10--Bring ye all the t...ithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

I have seen this is true. I have more than enough and plenty to spare.

When it comes to helping the needy: he states: Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

He doesn't say give them all you have---is that how you read "all you can do."---although, there was a young man he asked this from....so if He asks, we can do.

When it comes to anger he states: Moroni (from Moroni) Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

Well, the last one makes it pretty clear that to be perfected---this isn't something we can do, but something that He does as we come unto Him.

I think the problem with those who are not LDS as they take "all we can do" to mean that we can do everything. The Book of Mormon and the Bible is repleat with the understanding that what we can do WITHOUT GOD is very limited and what we can do with God --well nothing is impossible. So, if we have faith---what God tells us is that we can move mountains, part the Red Sea, raise the dead---without Him....not really much of anything. So what IS in our power.

1) We can come unto Him.
2) We can choose to be baptized.
3) We can follow the promptings of the Spirit.

Ummm, I think that pretty much sums it up---of what WE can do of our own accord. After that---well, with God, the sky is the limit.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Well, lets see what God believes is all we can do.

When it comes to money---he asks for a t..ithe--that's 10%. Then he states: Mal 3:10--Bring ye all the t...ithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

I have seen this is true. I have more than enough and plenty to spare.

When it comes to helping the needy: he states: Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

He doesn't say give them all you have---is that how you read "all you can do."---although, there was a young man he asked this from....so if He asks, we can do.

When it comes to anger he states: Moroni (from Moroni) Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

Well, the last one makes it pretty clear that to be perfected---this isn't something we can do, but something that He does as we come unto Him.

I think the problem with those who are not LDS as they take "all we can do" to mean that we can do everything. The Book of Mormon and the Bible is repleat with the understanding that what we can do WITHOUT GOD is very limited and what we can do with God --well nothing is impossible. So, if we have faith---what God tells us is that we can move mountains, part the Red Sea, raise the dead---without Him....not really much of anything. So what IS in our power.

1) We can come unto Him.
2) We can choose to be baptized.
3) We can follow the promptings of the Spirit.

Ummm, I think that pretty much sums it up---of what WE can do of our own accord. After that---well, with God, the sky is the limit.

I have no argument about the ti the.. I believe as Paul did that a workman is worthy of his hire and that those who teach the Gospel should live from the Gospel (1 Corinthians 9:14). Yet Mormonism despises those that make their living from the ti thes and offerings brought into the church..

1.Do we really choose Him or did He choose us (John 15:16).. He said that he chose us, not the other way around..
2. Yes we can be baptized and yet we can see that as being amerced in His word. The Amish believe that.. I rather believe we are commanded to Go and baptize (Matthew 28:19).. That would mean we should also be baptized. We must remember baptism is just water.. Blood is REQUIRED for the forgiveness of Sin (Hebrews 9:22).. Only in the shed blood of Jesus is there forgiveness of sin..
3. As long as the message or the messenger is consistent with the word we have already receive we can follow those promptings.. There have been here in Utah those that believed they have been prompted to shed the blood of another (The Laffertys for one). They felt they were prophets and God commanded them that their sister in Law had to be blood atoned. Yes that is a rather extreme but it does prove there are times when what we feel is right just isn't (Proverbs 14:12). What seems right isn't always the way to go..

I think God though His word has corrected your thinking in what you have said in your post.. I say it again, It's all about Grace and not about what we do.. If you were following His prompting you would know that.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Is this really that confusing of a question? Doing all one can do depends on the individual. Yes, one can take things to extremes and focus everything on one aspect such as feeding the sick, but if he neglects his family and other responsibilities then he is not doing all he can do. If one wastes countless hours a day playing computer games, then one is not doing all he can do. I think when someone takes a true accounting of their life, they KNOW whether they are doing all they can do.

Then you have come to understand that no one EVER does all they can do.. Because of that according to LDS scripture No one can ever be saved.. Doing all you can do doesn't seem to be a "It would be nice if you could" kind commandment but instead a "Thou Shalt" kind of commandment.. A commandment that no one I have ever even heard of has kept.. Therefore no one can be saved.. Snow, there is always one more thing you can do no matter what you have done.. Another few minutes spent with your family, Another dollar you to give to help the homeless. Another person you tan tell the Gospel message too.. No one could ever "Do all they can do.." IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I have no argument about the ti the.. I believe as Paul did that a workman is worthy of his hire and that those who teach the Gospel should live from the Gospel (1 Corinthians 9:14). Yet Mormonism despises those that make their living from the ti thes and offerings brought into the church..

1.Do we really choose Him or did He choose us (John 15:16).. He said that he chose us, not the other way around..

Oh no---then if we have absolutely no say in the matter, you must believe that God created some for hell. Is that what you believer?

2. Yes we can be baptized and yet we can see that as being amerced in His word. The Amish believe that.. I rather believe we are commanded to Go and baptize (Matthew 28:19).. That would mean we should also be baptized. We must remember baptism is just water.. Blood is REQUIRED for the forgiveness of Sin (Hebrews 9:22).. Only in the shed blood of Jesus is there forgiveness of sin..

Okay, so it appears you agree with this here.

3. As long as the message or the messenger is consistent with the word we have already receive we can follow those promptings.. There have been here in Utah those that believed they have been prompted to shed the blood of another (The Laffertys for one). They felt they were prophets and God commanded them that their sister in Law had to be blood atoned. Yes that is a rather extreme but it does prove there are times when what we feel is right just isn't (Proverbs 14:12). What seems right isn't always the way to go..

Yes, one needs to learn to recognize the Spirit. The fruits of the spirit is good fruit.

I think God though His word has corrected your thinking in what you have said in your post.. I say it again, It's all about Grace and not about what we do.. If you were following His prompting you would know that.. IHS jim

Actually, you just agreed with me in three things that WE do. Do you think we do not choose Christ, that we do not choose baptism and that we do not choose to follow the Spirit given to us by God?

Then, with the help of---what can't we do? Can we be made perfect even as God is perfect if we do all we can do when God is with us? Is complete santification (purification) possible?

Once we have chosen God, can we then choose not to follow Him somewhere in the path or are we then forced to follow Him?

[Snow Patrol]

Yep, then we should be like "Christians" and do nothing more. You got it.

What do you think Christ wants from us? He knows no one is perfect. He knows we will all fall short. What do you think He is going to say "He everyone, live your life at 88.51 percent effort and you'll be fine." No. He wants us our whole heart, might, and mind in the effort. Does He know we will fall short? Yeup. But go ahead and live your life with zero effort. See what Christ has to say about that effort at judgement day.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Yep, then we should be like "Christians" and do nothing more. You got it.

What do you think Christ wants from us? He knows no one is perfect. He knows we will all fall short. What do you think He is going to say "He everyone, live your life at 88.51 percent effort and you'll be fine." No. He wants us our whole heart, might, and mind in the effort. Does He know we will fall short? Yeup. But go ahead and live your life with zero effort. See what Christ has to say about that effort at judgement day.

And the beauty of it really is--there really is joy in working with the Lord. When you put in your best effort, when you call on Him in mighty prayer, when you practice faith---when you see the results, WOW--it is really good. Your faith grows. You gain a greater knowledge of His absolute love for you--not that you did not believe or have faith before, but it becomes a sure knowledge--an unbreakable knowledge.

This is why it is sad to me-those who do not understand the works side of the equation. There is something really wonderful about giving all of your heart, might, mind and strength to God.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

And the beauty of it really is--there really is joy in working with the Lord. When you put in your best effort, when you call on Him in mighty prayer, when you practice faith---when you see the results, WOW--it is really good. Your faith grows. You gain a greater knowledge of His absolute love for you--not that you did not believe or have faith before, but it becomes a sure knowledge--an unbreakable knowledge.

This is why it is sad to me-those who do not understand the works side of the equation. There is something really wonderful about giving all of your heart, might, mind and strength to God.

What you say is so true. When one does give their all, imperfect as it might be, they grow and their faith expands. This expansion then stretches them to do even more than they thought capable. They continue to expand and grow and stretch. This is a great thing.

[nrajeffreturns]

Good point. According to the Bible,

'You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.'

That sounds a LOT like "Do all you can do."

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Yep, then we should be like "Christians" and do nothing more. You got it.

What do you think Christ wants from us? He knows no one is perfect. He knows we will all fall short. What do you think He is going to say "He everyone, live your life at 88.51 percent effort and you'll be fine." No. He wants us our whole heart, might, and mind in the effort. Does He know we will fall short? Yeup. But go ahead and live your life with zero effort. See what Christ has to say about that effort at judgement day.

All means everything not just our best.. So what does the Lord require of you?

Micah 6:8
O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

And for salvation Jesus explained it to Nicodemus that those who believe have everlasting life.. Our walk before God is a sacrifice of praise for the gift of life we has given us.. But that LIFE it's self is all His work. If I claim I have done anything to earn my salvation it is a wage not a gift.. The Bible tells us that salvation is a gift (Eph 2:8), stop making it something to be earned.. As far as the works He has ordained that I should walk in them. They are none of your business (Matthew 6:3).. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

And the beauty of it really is--there really is joy in working with the Lord. When you put in your best effort, when you call on Him in mighty prayer, when you practice faith---when you see the results, WOW--it is really good. Your faith grows. You gain a greater knowledge of His absolute love for you--not that you did not believe or have faith before, but it becomes a sure knowledge--an unbreakable knowledge.

This is why it is sad to me-those who do not understand the works side of the equation. There is something really wonderful about giving all of your heart, might, mind and strength to God.

You have shown that you have no faith in God at all. I have shown you that faith is how we access God's grace.. You still insist that there is a works side to grace.. I have shown you that we are saved by grace or works NOT both (Romans 11:6). We are saved by grace You agree with that. The question here is how we gain that grace. By saying that is is a product of both faith and work you deny the scripture that Tell is that We gain God's grace through faith and NOT OF WORKS. You speak outside the Gospel and not how God has explained the process..

To love God with all your heart mind and strength a person first must know that He is there and is what He says He is. To Moses God demanded that He exists. He gave His existence as His name. Telling Moses that He is "I AM". Then he explained His nature to Moses AND THE PROPHETS. He told Moses that WE should listen to Him that He is the Lord God, that He is ONE LORD.. Jesus confirmed this in the same p***age you used to Find the quote that we should love Him with all our Heart Mind and Strength (Mark 12:27-29). You can't fall in love with a figment from a man's mind. You have to believe the Being you Love and accept Him for what He is..

Remember Jesus said that the Father is Spirit (John 4:24). He defines a spirit as not having a body of flesh and bone (Luke 24:39). The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul said that Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15). We must find a way to agree with God that He is God and there is no other without adding to the scripture a phrase that makes it work in our minds but denies the truth that No other God was formed before God and no other will be formed after Him (Isaiah 43:10).. Does not mormonism teach that Jesus the God of this world was formed as a God AFTER the Father was already God? Ignoring the scripture and making up your own God to love with all your Heart Mind and Strength is sin, It's idolatry.. Mormonism teaches IDOLATRY as truth calling it a more sure way.. I know with experience that sin is NOT a more sure way to anything but death.. Time to reexamine your religion.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Good point. According to the Bible,

'You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.'

That sounds a LOT like "Do all you can do."

Exactly! It is the way I read it as well.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

When it comes to money---he asks for a t..ithe--that's 10%. Then he states: Mal 3:10--Bring ye all the t...ithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Another error that you hold BigJ. Can you show me where t i t h i n g was commanded under the New Covenant after the death of Christ? BTW before you try and use Acts 4 read it again because this is not a commandment to t i t h e.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Exactly! It is the way I read it as well.

And can you tell me a single person who does that?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Another error that you hold BigJ. Can you show me where t i t h i n g was commanded under the New Covenant after the death of Christ? BTW before you try and use Acts 4 read it again because this is not a commandment to t i t h e.

It was never undone from the Old Testament Billyray. I guess you argue against every church that ***hes.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

And can you tell me a single person who does that?

Ummm, I was replying to nrajeffreturns---I will name him as the single person.

Or are you making the submission that if we turn to Christ, we are unable (with His help) to love Him with all of our heart, might, mind, and strength? Are you saying that it is impossible for God to help us do this?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Ummm, I was replying to nrajeffreturns---I will name him as the single person.

Or are you making the submission that if we turn to Christ, we are unable (with His help) to love Him with all of our heart, might, mind, and strength? Are you saying that it is impossible for God to help us do this?

Do you really believe you obey the two great commandments? For starters you don't even follow the true God of the Bible lets alone obey either of these two commandments.

[Libby]

Hi Julie! Nice to see you again.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you really believe you obey the two great commandments?

Are you saying that if a person currently isn't obeying a commandment, that it's therefore not really a commandment?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Good point. According to the Bible, but how can you trust it?

'You must love the LORD your Gods with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.' and follow all the rules, commandments and whatever comes out of the prophet's mouth.That sounds a LOT like "Do all you can do."

My coments are in red letter. Yes I took liberty, but what the hick so did Joseph Smith jr. With the Holy Bible.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

My coments are in red letter.

And they seem fairly valid to me. The Israelites were expected to follow all the rules and commandments that came from their prophet's mouth. And when they disobeyed sufficiently, that prophet called down destruction on them. For an example, see what happened when Moses found them worshiping a cow they had made.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

And they seem fairly valid to me. The Israelites were expected to follow all the rules and commandments that came from their prophet's mouth. And when they disobeyed sufficiently, that prophet called down destruction on them. For an example, see what happened when Moses found them worshiping a cow they had made.

It was the Chick-fil-a cow telling them to eat more chicken that's all. Speaking of commandments coming from the mouth of a prophet, Joseph Smith jr. Used that excuse to....Well speaking of Chicks. lol

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Libby

Hi Julie! Nice to see you again.

Thanks Libby. I hope all is well with you.

[BigJulie]

Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns (with red highlights from Realfake)

Good point. According to the Bible, but how can you trust it?

'You must love the LORD your Gods with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.' and follow all the rules, commandments and whatever comes out of the prophet's mouth.That sounds a LOT like "Do all you can do."

Realfake, you ask a good question, so I thought I would reply.

First, the goal of the Bible is not to teach you to trust the Bible, but to trust God (whose words it is), right? I think you would agree. The Bible if full of stories in which people are told to listen to God, not what they think God wrote. An example is the Pharisees versus Peter. One trusted what they think was written, the other trusted God.

So, how do we get to the point we trust God. Well, we follow what is written--for starters. God teaches us to pray and to turn to him. We are also born with the "light of Christ" or an inner mechanism that teaches us what the Spirit feels like versus the body. We do something wrong, we feel guilt. We do something good, we feel light.

So, the point of the Bible really is to get us to learn to recognize the Spirit---it essentially teaches us what it means to follow the Spirit and what it means to follow the flesh. It is full of stories of those who followed God even when it appeared to contract what was already known of God--such as with Abraham, animal sacrifice, eating kosher or not, etc. The end point---the authority is always God, we are always to turn to God, we are to learn what it means to follow God. How do we know the difference of when we are following God or not? If we went by the word of God alone, we would end up looking much like the Pharisees and Saducees. Sure that they understood the word, sure that they were chosen, but they were horribly mistaken. Therefore, God gives us a second witness--His Spirit. The combination of the two (His word and His Spirit--wow, doesn't that sound an awful like like Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost)---is what allows us to known and learn to trust God.

Second point--everything that comes out of the mouths of the prophets. Well, I think that is the whole point of the Bible--that with God nothing is impossible. As I noted, with faith Abraham sacrificed Isaac. With faith, Moses parted the Red Sea. With faith, the apostles healed the sick and raised the dead. What exactly then, do you think is impossible?