Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 145

Thread: What does it mean

  1. #26
    Billyray
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    . . .the point of the Bible really is to get us to learn to recognize the Spirit---it essentially teaches us what it means to follow the Spirit and what it means to follow the flesh. . .
    The major point of the Bible is that we are all sinners and that we are saved when we place our faith in Christ for salvation. The harder the rules were the more people fell short. You have a completely twisted view of what the Bible teaches in that you believe that you actually obey all the commandments. You don't even follow the God of the Bible--perhaps you could start with that one.

  2. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    The major point of the Bible is that we are all sinners and that we are saved when we place our faith in Christ for salvation. The harder the rules were the more people fell short. You have a completely twisted view of what the Bible teaches in that you believe that you actually obey all the commandments. You don't even follow the God of the Bible--perhaps you could start with that one.
    The harder the rules, the more people fall short? Then why give any rules at all? Then all could be saved?

    Yes, you and I have very different ideas of what the main point of the Bible is. I agree, we are all sinners and fall short--but to me, that is not the main point. The main point is that we can be perfected in Christ--that with Him, we can be healed from our weaknesses--not that we have to live with them.

    I think non-Mormons often mistakes what it means "all we can do." I think they think that means we can do it all right now. But that is not how it works. What we are taught is that with the spirit, God will work with us as we work with Him. As we put in our best effort, he will take our weaknesses and perfect them. This takes time--but so worth the effort.

    God doesn't want us to live forever with our sins and weaknesses, He wants to free us from them.

    From the Book of Mormon:

    "Nevertheless, the Lord God showeth us our weakness that we may know that it is by his grace, and his great condescensions unto the children of men, that we have power to do these things."

    "And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them."

    In other words, he commanded us to be perfect--not to show us that we can't, but to teach us how we can.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  3. #28
    Billyray
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Yes, you and I have very different ideas of what the main point of the Bible is. I agree, we are all sinners and fall short--but to me, that is not the main point. The main point is that we can be perfected in Christ--that with Him, we can be healed from our weaknesses--not that we have to live with them.
    You just reaffirm that you believe you are saved by your own works. That is why Christians say that Mormonism is a works based religion.

  4. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    You just reaffirm that you believe you are saved by your own works. That is why Christians say that Mormonism is a works based religion.
    I guess you will just never understand what it means to be "perfected in Christ" because you believe it is not possible.

    The more I hear works criticized, the more I rejoice in understanding works. I would never presume to tell a child that because it is not possible for them to know all information, it is not worth aquiring an education. I would also never tell a child that if they just go to cl***, they can sleep through it and somehow acquire knowledge. I would also never tell a child that they can get an education by their own merit and that they do not need the help "grace" of a knowledgabe teacher who will sacrifice on their behalf so that they can learn (ask any teacher, they don't do it for the money.)

    The sad thing is here, you seem to think if you can't be perfect all at once, it is not worth even attempting to really make an effort (with all your heart, might, mind and strength) to follow God. And the other sad thing is that you seem to think that God's grace is not enough to make your weaknesses strong.

    Yes, Billyray, I can say that you and I see God very differently. I see him as a healer and a teacher. You seem to see him as an enabler (you are too sinful to change, and he is too powerless to help you.)
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  5. #30
    Billyray
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Yes, Billyray, I can say that you and I see God very differently. I see him as a healer and a teacher. You seem to see him as an enabler (you are too sinful to change, and he is too powerless to help you.)
    Where we differ is that you believe you are saved by your own works as I said above and I believe that we are saved when we place our faith in Christ to save us. Mormonism and Christianity are polar opposites.

  6. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Where we differ is that you believe you are saved by your own works as I said above and I believe that we are saved when we place our faith in Christ to save us. Mormonism and Christianity are polar opposites.
    You are funny--you must insist on sticking to your view of what I believe regardless of whether or not I have shown you clearly exacty how Christ's grace saves us--not just in our sins, but from them---that he actually heals us.

    And I have a testimony that working with the Lord is a beautiful thing. Two things that non-denominationals seem to give up--work and feelings--both of these things are a major part of our lives and the very essense of what and who we are. Work is a source of great joy (a feeling) as we work with the Lord (put on his yoke). His grace then (as we work for him) can be seen so clearly in our salvation. One of the greatest blessings I have had as a mother is to teach my children of Christ when they are struggling with their own weaknesses---when they are feeling guilty---to be able to give them hope in Christ and to teach them how to apply the atonement in their lives. I don't tell them--you believe so don't worry about it---I teach them how to apply the atonement. Do you realize that the 12-step is basically a repentence process. It teaches people how to apply God's love in their lives. It is work. It is worth it. Cleansing can occur. I have watched my children work with and for God---and be cleansed and healed. It is brings me so much joy as a mother to watch them be free of not only guilt, but also weakness so that it no longer plaques them.


    Phl 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    God working in us as we work out or own salvation---these two verses can really be understood together, not just be reading it and intellectually understanding it, but because once it has been lived, it is clearly seen.
    Last edited by BigJulie; 09-11-2013 at 07:28 AM.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  7. #32
    RealFakeHair
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Realfake, you ask a good question, so I thought I would reply.

    First, the goal of the Bible is not to teach you to trust the Bible, but to trust God (whose words it is), right? I think you would agree. The Bible if full of stories in which people are told to listen to God, not what they think God wrote. An example is the Pharisees versus Peter. One trusted what they think was written, the other trusted God.

    So, how do we get to the point we trust God. Well, we follow what is written--for starters. God teaches us to pray and to turn to him. We are also born with the "light of Christ" or an inner mechanism that teaches us what the Spirit feels like versus the body. We do something wrong, we feel guilt. We do something good, we feel light.

    So, the point of the Bible really is to get us to learn to recognize the Spirit---it essentially teaches us what it means to follow the Spirit and what it means to follow the flesh. It is full of stories of those who followed God even when it appeared to contract what was already known of God--such as with Abraham, animal sacrifice, eating kosher or not, etc. The end point---the authority is always God, we are always to turn to God, we are to learn what it means to follow God. How do we know the difference of when we are following God or not? If we went by the word of God alone, we would end up looking much like the Pharisees and Saducees. Sure that they understood the word, sure that they were chosen, but they were horribly mistaken. Therefore, God gives us a second witness--His Spirit. The combination of the two (His word and His Spirit--wow, doesn't that sound an awful like like Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost)---is what allows us to known and learn to trust God.

    Second point--everything that comes out of the mouths of the prophets. Well, I think that is the whole point of the Bible--that with God nothing is impossible. As I noted, with faith Abraham sacrificed Isaac. With faith, Moses parted the Red Sea. With faith, the apostles healed the sick and raised the dead. What exactly then, do you think is impossible?
    To quote Jesus of the Holy Bible, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." End of quote. that's all.

  8. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    To quote Jesus of the Holy Bible, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." End of quote. that's all.
    Actually, Christ doesn't stop there...--that is not "end of quote" --that is "not all" Christ kept talking to them to explain, he says:


    And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

    In other words, it is not the scriptures that give life--but Christ Himself. (They testify of Christ---so that we know how to come unto Him.) He is speaking to those who are sure they know the scriptures and what they mean, but they obviously do not--because they missed the one crucial part--coming unto Christ and learning from Him.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  9. #34
    Billyray
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    God working in us as we work out or own salvation-
    You WORK out your own salvation--which means to you that you are saved by doing good works. Again that is why Christians say that Mormonism is a works based religion.

  10. #35
    RealFakeHair
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Actually, Christ doesn't stop there...--that is not "end of quote" --that is "not all" Christ kept talking to them to explain, he says:


    And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

    In other words, it is not the scriptures that give life--but Christ Himself. (They testify of Christ---so that we know how to come unto Him.) He is speaking to those who are sure they know the scriptures and what they mean, but they obviously do not--because they missed the one crucial part--coming unto Christ and learning from Him.
    Then why do you question the scriptures?

  11. #36
    nrajeffreturns
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    Then why do you question the scriptures?
    What questions do you think she is asking of them?

  12. #37
    RealFakeHair
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    What questions do you think she is asking of them?
    More of a rhetorical statement, but you can fill in the blanks.

  13. #38
    nrajeffreturns
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    More of a rhetorical statement, but you can fill in the blanks.
    No, I can't, actually. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say she questions the scriptures.

    Do you mean she believes they are false? Fiction? The writings of con men?

  14. #39
    Billyray
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    No, I can't, actually. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say she questions the scriptures.

    Do you mean she believes they are false? Fiction? The writings of con men?
    You don't believe the Bible as written nor does BigJ.

  15. #40
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    You don't believe the Bible as written nor does BigJ.
    Do they believe even their own books they call scripture? Doesn't the BofM teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are one God? Do they not feel a need to tack on their own interpretative phrase "In purpose" to 2 Nephi 31:21 as they feel a need to place it on all Biblical p***age that teach that the Lord God is one Lord? And what could they do with the conversation between Zeezrom and Amulek, in the light of the teachings of Joseph Smith?

    I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three C O N S T I T U T E three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)


    Looks like Joseph Smith contradict it himself in the pages of the BofM.. I guess the "I have always declared" means only that there are three Persons of God not that he always taught that there are three gods.. Just looking at the BofM anyone can see that he had ALWAYS believed that there is one God, that is up until the time he became a cult leader, a great prophet and could teach a different God than even the BofM teaches.. Hey, if you don't like what mormonism teaches, wait a few minutes.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 09-15-2013 at 03:33 PM.

  16. #41
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Phl 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    God working in us as we work out or own salvation---these two verses can really be understood together, not just be reading it and intellectually understanding it, but because once it has been lived, it is clearly seen.
    Lets place your concept into other scriptures..

    "For by grace we are save through faith and that not of ourselves it is a give of God NOT OF WORKS", but we must work out or own salvation.. Does it fit? How about this one "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." But since salvation has a works component then grace really isn't grace now is it.. Does your thinking work in that? NO!! Salvation is either of Grace or it is of works NOT BOTH!! You have told me many time that the LDS are saved by grace.. If that was true Julie then there works would not have a place in your doctrines of salvation.. That is BIBLICAL! So to hold Phl 2:12-13 as being God's true we must see it as ALL God's work, even that which is seen in us as doing is God doing |His work within us.. If it was us working out our own salvation then these other p***ages would be a lie wouldn't they? It would be a lie to teach that salvation is by God's grace through faith and NOT OF WORKS.. So tell me which way is it? If the Bible true, or are your interpretation of Phl 2:12-13 right and therefore the rest of the Bible that clearly teach GRACE though faith is the way to salvation?

    Come on now explain this to us.. Did God change His mind half way though the New Testament. When Jesus taught Nicodemus that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." HE THAT BELIEVES, not he that works out his own salvation.. Make it all work my lady or none of it has any truth to it at all.. IHS jim

  17. #42
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    [BigJulie;147694]Oh no---then if we have absolutely no say in the matter, you must believe that God created some for hell. Is that what you believer?
    I see no need to defend what God has clearly put in His word..

    John 15:16
    Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


    Who does the p***age say chose who? That isn't the gospel according to Jim, IT IS THE WORD OF GOD, given through the Apostle John by the Holy Spirit. If you disagree you teach another Gospel THAT IS NOT God's word but the invention of men..

    Okay, so it appears you agree with this here.

    Yes, one needs to learn to recognize the Spirit. The fruits of the spirit is good fruit.

    Actually, you just agreed with me in three things that WE do. Do you think we do not choose Christ, that we do not choose baptism and that we do not choose to follow the Spirit given to us by God?
    Isn't that all part of being in Jesus? As far as any of that being our choice I refer you back to John 15:16..

    Then, with the help of---what can't we do? Can we be made perfect even as God is perfect if we do all we can do when God is with us? Is complete santification (purification) possible?
    Yes it is possible but I take you again to the Bible to discover how that can be..

    2Cor 5:21
    For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    He became Sin in our place and HE makes us to be the righteousness of GOD in Him.. It is all His work not ours.. If you make a decision to reject His righteousness who am I to tell you that you must.. But if you reject it you will have to establish your own righteousness and the commandment for righteousness is to be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect.. If you can do it great go for it.. Excuse me if I am sure you will fail.. I believe God when he tell us that all our righteousnesses are as filth rags before Him.. It doesn't matter how you try to be perfect as He is perfect you will fail..

    Once we have chosen God, can we then choose not to follow Him somewhere in the path or are we then forced to follow Him?
    Who follows Him? Yes it is a commandment to do so but do we always do so? No, we fail and fail again.. Even here you have gotten angry when I teach a doctrine of One God, or like now salvation, and yes sanctification, being the work of God and not of our own efforts.. And are you arguing with me? No, you argue with the word God preserved for us as His message.. So if we chose to follow Him we maintain our faith in Him. We never choose not to drop our faith.. WE are reborn spiritually of Him, once born of Him we can never be unborn.. You can't be unborn from your parents, you can't be unborn of God either.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 09-15-2013 at 04:33 PM.

  18. #43
    nrajeffreturns
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    You don't believe the Bible as written nor does BigJ.
    Really? I rather think that we DO believe the Bible as was originally written....

    "The Prophet Joseph Smith explained: "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. ..." (TPJS, p. 327)

  19. #44
    nrajeffreturns
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    I see no need to defend what God has clearly put in His word..
    But there IS a need for you to defend your "interesting" interpretation of it as an attempt to prove to Julie that God created some people for hell.

    John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

    Who does the p***age say chose who?
    The question isn't "who does the verse say did the choosing in the appointment of apostles?" because it's obvious the answer is "Jesus." Those apostles who were chosen by Jesus to be His apostles, they didn't apply for the ***. He came up to them and said "I want you to be one of my special witnesses, missionaries, and leaders."

    So again, The question isn't "who does the verse say did the choosing in the appointment of apostles?"
    The question is "Do we have any say in whether we get eternal life or not?"

    That isn't the gospel according to Jim
    But the idea that John 15:16 proves that God created some people for hell IS the gospel of Jim to an extent.

    If you disagree you teach another Gospel THAT IS NOT God's word but the invention of men..
    An Arminian Christian might say that if you disagree with Arminianism, YOU teach another gospel that is the invention of a man named John Calvin.

    He became Sin in our place ..
    When you say "in our place," who are you referring to? All humans? Or just the ones who submit to Trinitarianism and Calvinism? WHO did Jesus become sin for?

    You can't be unborn from your parents, you can't be unborn of God either.
    If you are child of the devil, can't you become unborn of him?
    Last edited by nrajeffreturns; 09-16-2013 at 12:31 PM.

  20. #45
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    [nrajeffreturns;147836]But there IS a need for you to defend your "interesting" interpretation of it as an attempt to prove to Julie that God created some people for hell.
    God's perfect will is that none would be lost but all would come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).. Still he will not force anyone into His salvation. Just as the prodigal son was nor forced to return to his father we are not forced to come to Jesus. The question here isn't about us and what we di but rather what God is and what He knows about us.. Those He knows will respond to Him He has chosen to be His children..

    John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

    The question isn't "who does the verse say did the choosing in the appointment of apostles?" because it's obvious the answer is "Jesus." Those apostles who were chosen by Jesus to be His apostles, didn't apply for the ***. He came up to them and said "I want you to be one of my special witnesses, missionaries, and leaders."
    By what authority do you limit God's chose to only those who are to be His Apostles? As Jesus said these things these men were disciples not Apostles. Are not all believers in Jesus called, chosen, ORDAINED to go, bring forth fruit. Are we not to expect that God will give us all that we ask as we remain in Him? This is only for those God has chosen to be special witnesses, missionaries, and leaders? No this is for all He chooses to be His own.. No one applies to become His children. This is done by a power of God because of holding faith in Jesus (John 1:12-13).

    So again, The question isn't "who does the verse say did the choosing in the appointment of apostles?"
    The question is "Do we have any say in whether we get eternal life or not?"
    The p***age doesn't say that it is a invitation to become an apostle. Even if it did does it mean that they had no choice in the matter? This clearly shows the way all people are calling into a relationship with God. He does the choosing we can only respond to His call.. Since he know who will respond in acceptance and who will reject that call, His call is only made to those who will accept Him, to those He has chosen..

    But the idea that John 15:16 proves that God created some people for hell IS the gospel of Jim to an extent.


    An Arminian Christian might say that if you disagree with Arminianism, YOU teach another gospel that is the invention of a man named John Calvin.


    When you say "in our place," who are you referring to? All humans? Or just the ones who submit to Trinitarianism and Calvinism? WHO did Jesus become sin for?


    If you are child of the devil, can't you become unborn of him?
    Where is it my own invention that John 15:16 says that God (Jesus) made the choice? That is just what it says. You are again bearing false witness.. I know of no Arminian that denies that they were called by God to become His.. They only hold that they can change their mind later.. I happen to believe that once you are Born you can't be unborn.. They disagree at least they sort of disagree. They believe that we can walk away from God and back into the world and give up your place in the kingdom.. I happen to disagree with that Idea. Both they and I still believe that salvation can come ONLY by the grace of God to those who have faith.. I believe that a person who turns away from that faith never had it to start with. They believe that such throw that faith away.. I see only a difference in perspective there not a difference in doctrine.. They also hold that it is God who chooses those who will be saved not themselves.. You are barking up the wrong tree..

    This is why it is so serious to deny the gift of everlasting Life.. Jesus died for all Sin, even that sin of those that reject Him.. It's like spitting on and casting into a garbage heap the most valuable gift ever offered to anyone. It's as insulting as Simon as he tried to buy the authority to give the gift of the Holy Spirit from the Apostles..

    We were all born physically into this world. We continue to walk in this body of sin and death all the day of our mortality.. That body is never unborn it finally dies.. That part of us that is Born Spiritually, of God continues and is raised a new and perfect person at His coming.. See now that this body of death which we now inhabit is a child of Satan? Only in the New Birth can it be over come.. I have said this before and it seem to fit again here.. A Christian never sins as much as they want, No, they sin much more than they want.. IHS jim

  21. #46
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Really? I rather think that we DO believe the Bible as was originally written....

    "The Prophet Joseph Smith explained: "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. ..." (TPJS, p. 327)
    But you hold that evil men changed that Bible. Making it say what they wanted it to say by adding to it and taking p***ages out of it? Can you show us were the changes that have been made have changed the meaning of God intent? Can you show were God is using mortality to test us rather than using it to bring Him glory? Was Jesus lying to us when He said that His word would never p*** away? Yet it was taught within the highest leadership of the LDS church that it is highly questionable that even one verse of the Bible escaped deliberate compromise from their intended message (Divine Authority of the Book of Mormon, pp. 45), or that "important points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible or lost before it was compiled" (T. of P.J.S., pp. 9-11). These attacks on God word, that He promised to keep pure, show a shocking lack of faith in His ability to keep His promises.. With such a lack of faith how can anyone hope to gain God's grace? IHS jim

  22. #47
    Billyray
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Really? I rather think that we DO believe the Bible as was originally written....

    "The Prophet Joseph Smith explained: "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. ..." (TPJS, p. 327)
    No you don't believe the Bible as written, nor does BigJ. You believe that it has been purposely corrupted--yet you have not given anyone any proof for your bogus claim.

  23. #48
    RealFakeHair
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    No you don't believe the Bible as written, nor does BigJ. You believe that it has been purposely corrupted--yet you have not given anyone any proof for your bogus claim.
    Nor can they, this is why I never do the bible-ping-pong with them.

  24. #49
    nrajeffreturns
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    But you hold that evil men changed that Bible. Making it say what they wanted it to say by adding to it and taking p***ages out of it?
    What does that have to do with your accusation that

    "You don't believe the Bible as written nor does BigJ." ???

    Did you mean that you think we don't believe the Bible, in its CURRENT state, is error-free and 100% complete?
    Or did you mean that you think we don't believe the Bible's words as they originally existed?

  25. #50
    RealFakeHair
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    What does that have to do with your accusation that

    "You don't believe the Bible as written nor does BigJ." ???

    Did you mean that you think we don't believe the Bible, in its CURRENT state, is error-free and 100% complete?
    Or did you mean that you think we don't believe the Bible's words as they originally existed?
    I believe, I think, I might, but I don't really know. Is this what you are saying?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •