What does it mean

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Why did you say that God doesn't exist?

I never said that God doesn't exist.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I never said that God doesn't exist.

And I never said that Jesus made a mistake. And now you know how it feels to be accused of saying something that you never said.

And to help you with your reading skills, here is what I DID say:

I told FakeHair that using HIS logic, Jesus made a mistake when He called Judas Iscariot to be one of His proclaimers of the gospel.

Since I don't use FakeHair's logic on this matter, I never said Jesus made a mistake.

Do you now understand the erroneous conclusion you jumped to?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

And I never said that Jesus made a mistake. And now you know how it feels to be accused of saying something that you never said.

And to help you with your reading skills, here is what I DID say:

I told FakeHair that using HIS logic, Jesus made a mistake when He called Judas Iscariot to be one of His proclaimers of the gospel.

Since I don't use FakeHair's logic on this matter, I never said Jesus made a mistake.

Do you now understand the erroneous conclusion you jumped to?

Here was your post

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

So using your logic, Jesus made a mistake when He called Judas Iscariot to be one of His proclaimers of the gospel and of Jesus' divinity.

You made the same mistake that Jim and Billy seem to have made: When the MEN whom God called to do stuff for Him make mistakes, you reach the false-dichotomy FALLACIOUS conclusion that either God makes mistakes, or the men were not called by Him.

You need to re-read the scriptural accounts of men who were called by God but who made mistakes, and maybe someday a light will come on and you will realize that there is a third possibility: That God doesn't make mistakes even when He calls fallible men to do stuff for Him.

Again I have no clue how you came up with the conclusion that any Christian on this board believes that Jesus made a mistake when he called Judas Iscariot. Can you explain what on earth you are talking about?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Here was your post

Again I have no clue how you came up with the conclusion that any Christian on this board believes that Jesus made a mistake when he called Judas Iscariot. Can you explain what on earth you are talking about?

Of course I can explain it. The question is whether YOU will "get it" and publicly admit the validity of my point.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Of course I can explain it. The question is whether YOU will "get it" and publicly admit the validity of my point.

What? Why you disappoint me. I though you knew everything like me!

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Of course I can explain it. .

That is what I was expecting the first time--for you to explain it because it makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Again I have no clue how you came up with the conclusion that any Christian on this board believes that Jesus made a mistake when he called Judas Iscariot. Can you explain what on earth you are talking about?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Yep, then we should be like "Christians" and do nothing more. You got it.

What do you think Christ wants from us? He knows no one is perfect. He knows we will all fall short. What do you think He is going to say "He everyone, live your life at 88.51 percent effort and you'll be fine." No. He wants us our whole heart, might, and mind in the effort. Does He know we will fall short? Yeup. But go ahead and live your life with zero effort. See what Christ has to say about that effort at judgement day.

He wants us to seek Him and love Him with all our heart mind and strength (Deut 13:3).. Or is that another time you read into the scripture what you want it to say instead of believing what it really teaches?

So if each individual is asked do to all they can do and that is different for each person then maybe one person has difficulty in stealing. If they do as is natural for them they may have to do a lot more or a lot less than God demands as His standard.. Just how can you look at different men as having different levels of behavior and still be exalted? God's standard is easy to understand. We must be perfect as He is perfect.. There is no excuse for "doing the best you can" ans believing that God will just wink at your failings.. Meet the standard or resign yourself to God's punishment.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

And I never said that Jesus made a mistake. And now you know how it feels to be accused of saying something that you never said.

And to help you with your reading skills, here is what I DID say:

I told FakeHair that using HIS logic, Jesus made a mistake when He called Judas Iscariot to be one of His proclaimers of the gospel.

Since I don't use FakeHair's logic on this matter, I never said Jesus made a mistake.

Do you now understand the erroneous conclusion you jumped to?

I am glad you are using my logic, which if used correctly will give you blessing from on high, and if not try harder next time.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

That is what I was expecting the first time--for you to explain it because it makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Then you should have asked me to explain it, I guess.

Again I have no clue how you came up with the conclusion that any Christian on this board believes that Jesus made a mistake when he called Judas Iscariot.

It was partially explained in an earlier post.

Can you explain what on earth you are talking about?

Again: Yes. I CAN explain. I have answered this question before. The answer was "yes" back then, and it still is "yes."
But if you are now REQUESTING a more thorough explanation, even though you haven't done so before, I will post one when I have a few more minutes.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Again: Yes. I CAN explain. I have answered this question before. The answer was "yes" back then, and it still is "yes."
But if you are now REQUESTING a more thorough explanation, even though you haven't done so before, I will post one when I have a few more minutes.

I have asked you to explain it but you seem to be unable to do so.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I have asked you to explain it but you seem to be unable to do so.

No, what you have asked me is "CAN you explain it?"

and I have answered your question.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

No, what you have asked me is "CAN you explain it?"

and I have answered your question.

Billy is right you seem unable to explain.. If you have before it would be a simple matter of cut and pate if you didn't want to go though it again.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Again I have no clue how you came up with the conclusion that any Christian on this board believes that Jesus made a mistake when he called Judas Iscariot. Can you explain what on earth you are talking about?

I already did, in post 117.

If God made a mistake in calling Joseph Smith as a prophet, then why would you believe that Jesus made NO mistake in calling Judas as an apostle?

Here's a little more on your reasoning's flaw:

Wouldn't you say that both men were wicked men? Yes or no?
Do you really believe that God would call men so wicked to be His handpicked ***istants? Yes or no?

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What does it mean to "Do all you can do".. In medicine it means to expend every possible means to prevent the death of a patient. In our daily work it means to do everything possible to be successful. So what does it mean in mormon salvation? It is commanded in the LDS scripture:
IHS jim

It means do all you can to be successful, do all you can to save a life...but to save our selfs from death and hell, it would never be enough. But Mormons don't do it simply to avoid death and hell, but to please God and receive all that he has, to become "joint heirs with Christ and all that the Father has" as we have been promised. Even the greatest haters of Mormonism can believe the words of the Bible and not just the things they want to in quotes out of context.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

If God made a mistake in calling Joseph Smith as a prophet. . .

God didn't call Joseph Smith rather he was a false prophet.

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

". . . then why would you believe that Jesus made NO mistake in calling Judas as an apostle?

Not only do I believe that he did not make a mistake when he chose Judas but I believe he made the perfect choice when he chose Judas for his role in history.

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Wouldn't you say that both men were wicked men? Yes or no?

Yes. Absolutely.

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Do you really believe that God would call men so wicked to be His handpicked ***istants? Yes or no?

First Joseph was not called to be a prophet. Second God calls both the good and the bad to fulfill his purposes.

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by Billyray

God didn't call Joseph Smith rather he was a false prophet.

Not only do I believe that he did not make a mistake when he chose Judas but I believe he made the perfect choice when he chose Judas for his role in history.

To the first comment I left; were you there?

To the second; who history and what scripture says he chose Judas for this purpose? He disappeared from sight (according to the Bible because it was time to lay down his life) he could have chosen any means; did it require the need to **** ones soul, for histories sake?

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by Billyray

First Joseph was not called to be a prophet. Second God calls both the good and the bad to fulfill his purposes.

This deserves a second post...why does God need "bad" purposes. Seems we are required to better than God himself.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

This deserves a second post...why does God need "bad" purposes. Seems we are required to better than God himself.

Read my comment again. " Second God calls both the good and the bad to fulfill his purposes." Bad in my sentence is referring to bad people NOT God's bad purposes like you said in your sentence. Read the Bible you will find plenty of examples of what I said such as God using a bad nation to punish Israel etc.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

To the second; who history and what scripture says he chose Judas for this purpose?

Read John and tell me what Jesus says about Judas early in the book and yet Jesus choose Judas.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

It means do all you can to be successful, do all you can to save a life...but to save our selfs from death and hell, it would never be enough. But Mormons don't do it simply to avoid death and hell, but to please God and receive all that he has, to become "joint heirs with Christ and all that the Father has" as we have been promised. Even the greatest haters of Mormonism can believe the words of the Bible and not just the things they want to in quotes out of context.

And yet in the BofM the concept is taught that we are saved by grace AFTER ALL WE CAN DO.. That isn't what you were saying in this post.. I see grace being kept from anyone that does less than they could have done.. Since no one has EVER done all they can do, no one can be saved.. The doctrine that we are saved by God's grace though faith in Jesus and NOT OF WORKS is a lot more realistic.. IHS jim