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Thread: Tips on how to "evangelize"

  1. #1
    Libby
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    Default Tips on how to "evangelize"

    "Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people; before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children; before you preach to me of your p***ion for your faith, teach me about it through your comp***ion for your neighbors. In the end, I'm not as interested in what you have to tell or sell as in how you choose to live and give."

    - Cory Booker, mayor of Newark, New Jersey

  2. #2
    nrajeffreturns
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    Great words to think about. Thanks, Libby.

  3. #3
    Sir
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    Simple truths.

    thanks!

  4. #4
    MacG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    "Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people; before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children; before you preach to me of your p***ion for your faith, teach me about it through your comp***ion for your neighbors. In the end, I'm not as interested in what you have to tell or sell as in how you choose to live and give."

    - Cory Booker, mayor of Newark, New Jersey
    Libby, This correlates well with "Be ready to give an answer to those who ask about the hope within.

    My favorite human quote about this is "If the method violates the message, the people see through it right away." Ravi Zacharias

  5. #5
    Libby
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    Yes, I like that quote from Ravi.

  6. #6
    Libby
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    If the person I'm trying to influence doesn't see that "hope" in me, they will not bother to ask from whence it came. And, if they don't ask or wonder or even see that hope in me, then perhaps I need to allow Christ to show through a little more.

    It what ways do we often "violate the message"?

    I think judgment is one of those ways. When we are personally judgmental, it pushes people away, rather than attracting them to the Christ within.

    Can you think of other ways we might violate the message of Christ?

  7. #7
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    If the person I'm trying to influence doesn't see that "hope" in me, they will not bother to ask from whence it came. And, if they don't ask or wonder or even see that hope in me, then perhaps I need to allow Christ to show through a little more.

    It what ways do we often "violate the message"?

    I think judgment is one of those ways. When we are personally judgmental, it pushes people away, rather than attracting them to the Christ within.

    Can you think of other ways we might violate the message of Christ?
    You insist that telling someone that they are in error is bad? Explain your position to Jesus after his encounter with the Pharisees..

    John 8:44
    Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


    GET OFF THE LOVE FEST MACHINE AND FACE TRUTH AS WE SEE IT IN THE LORD.. IHS jim

  8. #8
    Libby
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    1 John 4:8 "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

  9. #9
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    1 John 4:8 "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."
    You have been told on many occasions that there is no love in allowing anyone to go into eternity without being told what our place is before a Holy God and how God in His love repaired that relationship in Christ Jesus.. To do this with the LDS they must be taught that Jesus is the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.. Without them seeing the difference between the gods of mormonism and the God of all creation they will go into eternity without God, without forgiveness.. Is that love? I think not! the gods of mormonism must be shown to be the false gods that they are, the prophets of mormonism must be shown to be false prophets. Then many that do have a deep seeded desire to love and be loved by God can come to the cross receive forgiveness and enter into the joy of the Lord. IHS jim

  10. #10
    Libby
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    No one listens to a "teacher" who shows no love for the person they are trying to teach.

    "If the method violates the message, the people see through it right away." Ravi Zacharias

  11. #11
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    You insist that telling someone that they are in error is bad?
    I smell hypocrisy here, because Joseph Smith said that the churches of his day were in error, and you guys claim it WAS bad--you claim he was teaching Mormons to hate Christians.

    But somehow, when you tell people that the devil is their father, it's not teaching hatred? It's not bad?????


    What the ?????

  12. #12
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    I smell hypocrisy here, because Joseph Smith said that the churches of his day were in error, and you guys claim it WAS bad--you claim he was teaching Mormons to hate Christians.

    But somehow, when you tell people that the devil is their father, it's not teaching hatred? It's not bad?????


    What the ?????
    Smith did teach that all the Churches were wrong. Ok if that were so then the need for his restoration wouldn't be necessary. But he went WAY beyond that that, He taught that all the teachers of those churches are corrupt. Was that true? They taught from the Bible presenting the word of God for the people to understand. So the message that Smith delivered was a lie That which Jesus presented was the truth.. The lie about other is bad and name calling.. What Jesus taught was the truth and a statement of sheer fact.. Maybe that can help you understand that Jesus didn't commit evil even in calling the teachers of the Law children of the Devil..

    I never once said that Smith was teaching mormons to hate anyone.. I just quoted what is said in the official history.. You must see it as hate speech.. IHS jim

  13. #13
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    No one listens to a "teacher" who shows no love for the person they are trying to teach.

    "If the method violates the message, the people see through it right away." Ravi Zacharias
    I don't blame anyone for feeling attacked as I show them the error in a religion they have felt is God's one truth for years and years. They may get angry with me all they wish. I don't claim any power or authority to offer them salvation if they believe me.. What I tell them is to stop believing in men and believe in God (Jesus).. How does pointing out error and pointing to God rather than a man invented religion a violation of the message of God's love? Isn't mormonism worse for going out in tens of thousands of missionaries all with the false message that they (the churches of Christinity) were (are) all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”"

    That is the reasons that Smith said he was given for his prophetic message and is good, true, and loving but when I tell them that Smith married and had marital relations with many women other than Emma when the BofM absolutely forbids such behavior? Or that God is a glorified man and then say that mormon doctrine and Bible doctrine are the same thing? And I should be so uncaring about what these lies will do to their eternal destiny I should walk away and allow them to enter the Lake of Fire without uttering one word of warning.. Is that what you call love? I disagree with such a definition.. IHS jim

  14. #14
    Libby
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    This thread is not about the "message", James. It's about the method.

    If the method is unloving/hateful, the message becomes null and void. You may as well be talking to the wall.

    "Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people; before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children..."

  15. #15
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Smith did teach that all the Churches were wrong. Ok if that were so then the need for his restoration wouldn't be necessary. But he went WAY beyond that that, He taught that all the teachers of those churches are corrupt. Was that true? They taught from the Bible presenting the word of God for the people to understand. So the message that Smith delivered was a lie That which Jesus presented was the truth.. The lie about other is bad and name calling.. What Jesus taught was the truth and a statement of sheer fact.. Maybe that can help you understand that Jesus didn't commit evil even in calling the teachers of the Law children of the Devil..

    I never once said that Smith was teaching mormons to hate anyone.. I just quoted what is said in the official history.. You must see it as hate speech.. IHS jim
    Heh....once again I pop in to see James totally misunderstand another poster's position and continue to desperately defend his indefensible position.

  16. #16
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    Heh....once again I pop in to see James totally misunderstand another poster's position and continue to desperately defend his indefensible position.
    Did jeff not take his argument from JSH 19? That is just where I picked up what |I said. IT IS EXACTLY the same meaning. If it is not let jeff tell me, so you have no idea here what is going on after all you just pop in now and then.. IHS jim

  17. #17
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Did jeff not take his argument from JSH 19? That is just where I picked up what |I said. IT IS EXACTLY the same meaning. If it is not let jeff tell me, so you have no idea here what is going on after all you just pop in now and then.. IHS jim
    LOL....you are right. When it comes to your posts, I have no idea what's going on.


  18. #18
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Did jeff not take his argument from JSH 19? That is just where I picked up what |I said. IT IS EXACTLY the same meaning. If it is not let jeff tell me, so you have no idea here what is going on after all you just pop in now and then.. IHS jim
    Seems like you missed the point about hypocrisy or double standards, Jim.

    Joseph Smith said that the churches of his day were in error, and you guys claim it WAS bad--you claim he was teaching Mormons to hate Christians.

    But somehow, when you tell people that the devil is their father, it's not teaching hatred? It's not bad?????
    \

    What this means in elementary-school terms, is that you agreed with JohnT's fallacious claim that Joseph Smith was preaching hate when he said that the churches of his day had errors.

    Yet you claim it's NOT preaching hate when YOU tell people that the devil is their father---an accusation that is FAR WORSE than telling people their doctrines have errors.

    This is a pretty good example of hypocrisy, Pharisee-style, like when they would attack a mote in someone's eye, while their own eyes had much bigger problems than just a mote.

    That is the point I was trying to get across to you.

  19. #19
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Seems like you missed the point about hypocrisy or double standards, Jim.

    Joseph Smith said that the churches of his day were in error, and you guys claim it WAS bad--you claim he was teaching Mormons to hate Christians.

    But somehow, when you tell people that the devil is their father, it's not teaching hatred? It's not bad?????
    \

    What this means in elementary-school terms, is that you agreed with JohnT's fallacious claim that Joseph Smith was preaching hate when he said that the churches of his day had errors.

    Yet you claim it's NOT preaching hate when YOU tell people that the devil is their father---an accusation that is FAR WORSE than telling people their doctrines have errors.

    This is a pretty good example of hypocrisy, Pharisee-style, like when they would attack a mote in someone's eye, while their own eyes had much bigger problems than just a mote.

    That is the point I was trying to get across to you.
    You believe those words "you are of your father the devil" are my words? You claim to know the scripture better than I do and you still credit those words to me.. That is a quotation of Jesus to the Pharisees. Look at John 8:44 and see whose words they are.. Was this my attack on the LDS or was I using it to show that saying things like that could be from a divine source.. It all depends on if the words are truthful in their usage.. Were the minsters of the Christian Church all corrupt? NO. Did they teach for doctrine the commandments of men? NO! Did Smith violate the teaching in the BofM about polygamy? Yes. Did he violate the teachings of the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul that a bishop/elder of the Church should be the husband of one wife? YES! Which were really corrupt, which were teaching the commandments of men (Himself)? The clear answer is, Smith..

    Jesus saw the LEAVEN in the heart of the Pharisees and told them they were of their father the devil. I look as the works of Joseph Smith and by the authority of James 2:18 say the same thing about him in his unrepentant sin.. If he was a son of the Devil, then all that believe in him and follow him are by extension in that same category (Matthew 23:15). IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 08-05-2013 at 02:58 PM.

  20. #20
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    This thread is not about the "message", James. It's about the method.

    If the method is unloving/hateful, the message becomes null and void. You may as well be talking to the wall.

    "Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people; before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children..."
    Libby then open your eyes and see what others with the Gospel to teach have said to those that will not listen.. Read John 8:44.. Was the Lord using a gentle hand there? Can you see what I do to care for mt fellow man? You can't? Good you aren't suppose to. Never the less I will tell you I don't just sit on my hands and do nothing. I will show any Christian who asks me what I do.. Not before the world and not to those who are not in Jesus.. I will show only those who need to see my faith through my works. Or better said, the works Jesus does through me.. IHS jim

  21. #21
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    LOL....you are right. When it comes to your posts, I have no idea what's going on.

    I hate to see you say things that are so clearly false.. You seem to understand when you wish to.. IHS jim

  22. #22
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Libby then open your eyes and see what others with the Gospel to teach have said to those that will not listen.. Read John 8:44.. Was the Lord using a gentle hand there? Can you see what I do to care for mt fellow man? You can't? Good you aren't suppose to. Never the less I will tell you I don't just sit on my hands and do nothing. I will show any Christian who asks me what I do.. Not before the world and not to those who are not in Jesus.. I will show only those who need to see my faith through my works. Or better said, the works Jesus does through me.. IHS jim
    I don't think we should be comparing ourselves to the Lord. His judgment is perfect. Ours is not.

    Also, I don't believe anyone wants a laundry list of "good deeds". How we treat people is fairly evident, even online (most of the time).

    I'm not judging you or anyone in particular. I just liked this quote...and, the one Mac added from Ravi Zacharias', as well. I remember hearing him talk about perverting the message with our sin. Used to listen to a lot of his talks. Very powerful speaker who always makes me think.

    So, the quote I provided in the OP was not directed at anyone in particular. Just food for thought, to whomever can hear it.

  23. #23
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    I hate to see you say things that are so clearly false.. You seem to understand when you wish to.. IHS jim
    How is stating my opinion "clearly false"?

    It's my opinion. It's my view of things as I see them. That's what opinions are. LOL

    This is why I don't understand your posts. You don't make sense. Even after I posted that I don't know what you're talking about, Jeff had to remediate you on your argument and help you see that your arguments are hypocritical and not coherent.

  24. #24
    Snow Patrol
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    You believe those words "you are of your father the devil" are my words? You claim to know the scripture better than I do and you still credit those words to me.. That is a quotation of Jesus to the Pharisees. Look at John 8:44 and see whose words they are.. Was this my attack on the LDS or was I using it to show that saying things like that could be from a divine source.. It all depends on if the words are truthful in their usage.. Were the minsters of the Christian Church all corrupt? NO.
    Do you think Jesus Christ was referring to the preachers that Joseph knew or was He referring to all possible preachers? My guess, is that He was referring to those J.S. knew. Do you have evidence otherwise? And what evidence do you have that this is a false statement if Jesus Christ was referring to those who J.S. knew?

    Did they teach for doctrine the commandments of men? NO!
    Again, the same questions from above apply.

  25. #25
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    You believe those words "you are of your father the devil" are my words?
    They become your words if you borrow them to use against other people. Then you own them, Jim.
    Just like if you tell someone "Get behind me, satan," you can't weasel out of responsibility for what you said by claiming "Hey, it wasn't ME who said it, it was Jesus."

    Was this my attack on the LDS
    It seemed that way, if you think the LDS fall into the same category as the Pharisees who Jesus was addressing.
    Were the minsters of the Christian Church all corrupt? NO.
    "If we say we have no sin, we are liars and the truth is not in us." Doesn't that apply to the ministers of those churches?

    Did they teach for doctrine the commandments of men? NO!
    Yes, such as "Slavery in the USA is approved by God in the Bible." That is a doctrine that was taught by ministers in 1820, but it's not of God. It is a manmade doctrine.

    Did Smith violate the teaching in the BofM about polygamy? Yes.
    You need to read the BOM again, Jim, so you can understand how wrong you are.

    Jesus saw the LEAVEN in the heart of the Pharisees and told them they were of their father the devil.
    You mean He saw the kingdom of God in their hearts? (Jesus likened the kingdom of God to leaven...)

    I look as the works of Joseph Smith and by the authority of James 2:18 say the same thing about him in his unrepentant sin.. If he was a son of the Devil, then all that believe in him and follow him are by extension in that same category
    But aren't you teaching hatred of LDS if you're accusing all LDS of being children of Satan?
    Do you somehow believe such words will make people LOVE the LDS????

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