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Thread: My New Favorite Quote of WM Forums

  1. #51
    MacG
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Sure... I thought the solution was self explanatory in my first statement... You must first REPENT.
    However that is merely the first step... Salvation is a process, not an event.
    I think what I was getting at in my pithiness was there are people who will die in unrepentant sin due to the nature of their death, e.g. the guy driving by a wreck inwardly gloating about the stoop id driver got what he deserved just before he crashes to his own death, the self murderer, the scenarios for this circumstance are legion. I think is is a good chance I will die with some sin unconfessed - some sin that I don't know about.

  2. #52
    MacG
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    A major problem with Calvinism's soteriology is the idea that if Fred Johnson and Jeffrey Dahmer each committed only one sin--Fred tells his wife one time that she's pretty, and Dahmer murders only one teen-aged boy--that God would send both of them to the same hell, with the same torture, for the same amount of time.

    There's no way God is that unfair.
    All Adam did was take a bite of a piece of fruit at his super hot wife's request. How unfair is that?

    It is a shame when that log breaks. Who you gonna call?
    Last edited by MacG; 10-15-2013 at 02:15 PM.

  3. #53
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacG View Post
    I think what I was getting at in my pithiness was there are people who will die in unrepentant sin due to the nature of their death, e.g. the guy driving by a wreck inwardly gloating about the stoop id driver got what he deserved just before he crashes to his own death, the self murderer, the scenarios for this circumstance are legion. I think is is a good chance I will die with some sin unconfessed - some sin that I don't know about.
    In my case it will most likely be (sins), and not sin. This is something LDSinc. and most other work based religions will never understand. You can never keep up with the past sins the present sins, or future sins. We are human and while in the flesh we are sinners.
    There are only two kinds of sinners, saved ones and lost ones. It really is just that simple. 1Cr 1:27.

  4. #54
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    The bottom line is that ANY unrepented of sin will keep you out if Heaven.
    Paul did not mention heaven but the Kingdom of Heaven", very different place.To the simple minded God is so devoid of imagination he can only come up with one reward and one punishment. To those in the cult of Calvinism, he decided "just cause" to save some. It is called limited atonement...those who believe in it will be the ones who will find themselves limited. But God the Father will do the best he can for his wayward children unless they are hellbent on hell. Sadly those who follow the murderer Calvin (look it up) will suffer his fate.

    One only need one of the most ardent defenders of Calvinism in my sig line to understand them.

  5. #55
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacG View Post
    All Adam did was take a bite of a piece of fruit at his super hot wife's request. How unfair is that?
    That depends on what his punishment really ended up being. I don't believe his "sin" resulted in him ending up being tortured forever in hell.

  6. #56
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Wait a minute... I have heard your type say that one can be a saved Christian and still do things like lie and run their car past the speed limits. If you believe all sin is on the same level then that means that someone can rape and murder and still be a saved Christian.

    This is what I meant when I said that the vast majority of "Faith Aloners" preach faith alone, but almost none of them actually believe in it.
    Everyone sins but those who are truly born again do not make a practice of sin like the straw man argument that you set up when you said . . ."rapes and murders two or three times a year".

  7. #57
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    still trying to get people to play on your merry-go-round rides I see. Sorry but I already answered this.
    Here is my statement and question for you again perhaps you can answer it for me this time rather that the obvious dodge. Or if you felt you did address this please point me to the post that you are referring to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    And you believe that some sins such as murder cannot be forgiven which means that the blood of Christ is insufficient to cover these sins. Right?

  8. #58
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    The bottom line is that ANY unrepented of sin will keep you out if Heaven.
    So obeying ALL of the commandments ALL of the time is the standard for entering heaven?

  9. #59
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    .. Salvation is a process, not an event.
    Can you tell me the exact steps involved in that "process" and when that "process" is complete?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So obeying ALL of the commandments ALL of the time is the standard for entering heaven?
    That is only half of it.

  11. #61
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    That is only half of it.
    So the first half is obeying ALL of the commandments ALL of the time. What is the other half that is required to enter heaven besides living a perfect life?

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So the first half is obeying ALL of the commandments ALL of the time. What is the other half that is required to enter heaven besides living a perfect life?
    Billy, Billy, Billy... How can you pretend to school us wee Mormons when you do not even understand the basics of the Bible.
    Psalm 24:3-4
    3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?
    4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

    Having clean hands by obeying the commandments until you can overcome the physical, belongs to the gospel of repentance, however we are not to live our lives stuck in a repentance cycle. We are to move on to the gospel of perfection, which means changing our hearts to the point where it isn't even in our nature anymore to sin. This is what it means to have a pure heart.

  13. #63
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Billy, Billy, Billy... How can you pretend to school us wee Mormons when you do not even understand the basics of the Bible.
    Psalm 24:3-4
    3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?
    4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

    Having clean hands by obeying the commandments until you can overcome the physical, belongs to the gospel of repentance, however we are not to live our lives stuck in a repentance cycle. We are to move on to the gospel of perfection, which means changing our hearts to the point where it isn't even in our nature anymore to sin. This is what it means to have a pure heart.
    This is the most SELF RIGHTEOUS post I have ever seen posted on any forum. God made Jesus, he who knew no sin, to become sin for us so that we can be MADE to be the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).. When God gives us the righteousness of Jesus we have clean hands and a pure heart.. We can then stand in His holy place, but only if we have been transformed into the image of the Son (Romans 8:29).. Even Joseph Smith was able to understand that our resurrection and salvation are the work of God and not of ourselves (Moses 1:39), but still you come here and say we can sanctify ourselves.. You flat amaze me with your self righteousness in this last post.. IHS jim

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    This is the most SELF RIGHTEOUS post I have ever seen posted on any forum. God made Jesus, he who knew no sin, to become sin for us so that we can be MADE to be the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).. When God gives us the righteousness of Jesus we have clean hands and a pure heart.. We can then stand in His holy place, but only if we have been transformed into the image of the Son (Romans 8:29).. Even Joseph Smith was able to understand that our resurrection and salvation are the work of God and not of ourselves (Moses 1:39), but still you come here and say we can sanctify ourselves.. You flat amaze me with your self righteousness in this last post.. IHS jim
    Pure silliness. Do you have clean hands? in other words, do you no longer sin? Do you have a pure heart, in other words are all your thoughts pure?
    If not, them you are advocating for an unlimited, sin all you want, credit card where Christ pays for everything you have done, everything you are thinking about doing, and everything you will do in the future. This is what a famous Christian called "Cheap Grace" it is theology right out of hell. Luckily it is still only held by a very small minority of Christians.

    James... I get that you want the bad feelings for what you have done to go away without any effort on your part, but that will never happen, and all you will end up doing is repeating your failings because you never dealt with them the first time.
    This time however you will be in a worse place when it happens again.
    Last edited by theway; 10-15-2013 at 09:52 PM.

  15. #65
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Since you follow a works based salvation you believe that salvation is based on your own works/personal righteousness.
    Are you referring to this "works based salvation"?


    John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

  16. #66
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    This is the most SELF RIGHTEOUS post I have ever seen posted on any forum. God made Jesus, he who knew no sin, to become sin for us so that we can be MADE to be the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).. When God gives us the righteousness of Jesus we have clean hands and a pure heart.. We can then stand in His holy place, but only if we have been transformed into the image of the Son (Romans 8:29).. Even Joseph Smith was able to understand that our resurrection and salvation are the work of God and not of ourselves (Moses 1:39),
    Jim--the Declaration of Independence and the Cons***ution formed the work of freedom and independence for the USA--but that does not mean we will remain free if we don't obey the law.

    That God died for all mankind formed the basis for our salvation--but eternal life does not go to the disobedient--those who refuse to obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ. All will be judged according to their works--and that for His grace unto life or ****ation.

  17. #67
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Can you tell me the exact steps involved in that "process" and when that "process" is complete?

    Billyray--among the first steps we are commanded to do is this one:


    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


    Do you believe that is true?

  18. #68
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Billyray--among the first steps we are commanded to do is this one:


    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


    Do you believe that is true?
    So the process for LDS exaltation/salvation is

    1. Repent
    2. Be baptized

    What else?

  19. #69
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    All will be judged according to their works--and that for His grace unto life or ****ation.
    So works are the basis for LDS exaltation?

  20. #70
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Are you referring to this "works based salvation"?


    John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
    So would you say that Mormonism is a works based religion where exaltation is based on your works/personal righteousness?

  21. #71
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Having clean hands by obeying the commandments until you can overcome the physical, belongs to the gospel of repentance, however we are not to live our lives stuck in a repentance cycle. We are to move on to the gospel of perfection, which means changing our hearts to the point where it isn't even in our nature anymore to sin. This is what it means to have a pure heart.
    But obeying ALL of the commandments ALL of the time was just the first half according to you. What is the other half that is required to enter heaven besides living a perfect life?

  22. #72
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Billyray--among the first steps we are commanded to do is this one:


    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Do you believe that is true?
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So the process for LDS exaltation/salvation is

    1. Repent
    2. Be baptized

    What else?
    Billyray--you can read the Bible for yourself. My point is--if Acts2:38 is true--then the faith alone theology is false.

  23. #73
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Are you referring to this "works based salvation"?

    John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)

    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So would you say that Mormonism is a works based religion where exaltation is based on your works/personal righteousness?
    First--do you believe the above scripture is works-based?

  24. #74
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    First--do you believe the above scripture is works-based?
    Not at all.

    Now I see that you didn't answer my question. So would you say that Mormonism is a works based religion where exaltation is based on your works/personal righteousness?

  25. #75
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Not at all.
    Originally Posted by dberrie2000
    First--do you believe the above scripture is works-based?


    Now I see that you didn't answer my question. So would you say that Mormonism is a works based religion where exaltation is based on your works/personal righteousness?
    I am holding my breath here!

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