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Thread: Should the members of the cult of Calvinism repent before calling Mormons a cult?

  1. #51
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Baptists are not five point Calvinists.
    Oh but anyone believes the Bible and see it taught that a christian is the property of Jesus no one can take us away from Him, Papa calls them a Calvinist.. I have studied the 5 points of Calvinism and even as a Baptist I see the Biblical authority of each point.. IHS jim

  2. #52
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    You seem a little bit hostile today PaPa. What's up with that?
    No, just being brutally honest, so just answer the question instead of trying to figure my motives.

  3. #53
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Oh but anyone believes the Bible and see it taught that a christian is the property of Jesus no one can take us away from Him, Papa calls them a Calvinist.. I have studied the 5 points of Calvinism and even as a Baptist I see the Biblical authority of each point.. IHS jim
    So all five points are Biblical? Thank you for clearing up the fact that you are a member of this cult. Now go and remove the beam from thine own eye.

  4. #54
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Baptists are not five point Calvinists.
    So Baptists lack a full understanding of the Bible according to Calvinists...also I know a number of Baptists who believe all five points.

  5. #55
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    No, just being brutally honest
    I would be extremely happy if any Mormon was honest with me, but thus far I have yet to see it.

  6. #56
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    So all five points are Biblical? Thank you for clearing up the fact that you are a member of this cult. Now go and remove the beam from thine own eye.
    Lets do that together.. I will even let you pull out anything there that isn't based on the Bible, fair?

    Point one Total Depravity
    By total depravity we mean the evil quality which characterizes man's natural disposition and will. We call this sin of nature original, because each fallen man is born with it, and because it is the source or origin in each man of his actual transgressions. This is supported by the Bible in Jer 17:9 and Romans 3:23..

    Point two Unconditional Election
    Jesus said (John 15:16): Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain. In Romans 9:11-13 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth..

    Point three Limited Atonement
    Not all men are called to be the children of God (the sheep of Jesus' fold) Some are denied membership into that group (John 10:26-27) others are said to be His sheep.. It is taught that those which God has given to Jesus will come to Him (John 6:37).. That would mean that not all have been given to Jesus all men..

    Point four Irresistible Grace
    There are different effects of the same gospel spoken at the same time and in the place. This proves that regeneration is given to some and denied others. After all "Some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not" (Acts 28:24). This is because, "As many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:48). Irresistible grace is the effectual calling or regeneration of a person.. To those that are ordained into grace believed. If these are the one who believed then the others who didn't believe were condemned to eternal death..

    Point five Perseverance of the Saints (Once saved always saved)
    God knows all things. He did foresee all the disobedience, and thanklessness which an unworthy sinner was ever to perpetrate. Therefore, the future disclosure of this thanklessness, disobedience, committed by a poor sinner, cannot become a motive with God to revoke his election of him. God knew all about it just as well when he first elected him, and yet, moved by His own motives of love, mercy, and wisdom, He did elect him, foreknowing all his possible sinfulness. Those that believe are "born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" (1 Pet. 1:23). After all it is His promises that those that come to Him, He will in no way cast out (John 6:37).. This is not to say that those that walk away were ever really part of His kingdom. Many are called few are chosen.. Those that are chosen are secure in their salvation.. Those you hold as your children are in that position forever, you would never cast them out of your family.. How much better a father is God than you? That is a comparison that is immeasurable.. We have His promise that once we come to Him we will never be cast out.. (spurgeon.org/~phil/dabney/5points.htm#p)

    So what parts of the 5 points are unbiblical.. You may not like them but they are BIBLICAL.. You may wish they were false but they are based in truth.. All you can do is bow to God's sovereignty and accept it.. Now what bean you can find in my eye please help me remove it.. I do not take the credit for these teachings nor the responsibility for their authorship. I only agree with then as they conform to the Bible.. To me it sure does look like they do conform..

    Now papa please tell me who is the central leader of Calvinism.. If it is a cult it must have one all cults do.. Show me the extrabiblical revelation in which all the cults have.. Even if it's believing that the words of that central leader are scripture there is extrabiblical revelation.. Show that to me in Calvinism. I have already shown you that those point of doctrine are Biblical, based on the Bible not the words of a man. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 10-19-2013 at 12:03 PM.

  7. #57
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    No it does not, it teaches that only those already chosen for heaven and who are "drawn through irresitable Grace" will be saved and that those pre-****ed cannot come to God...
    Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

    PaPa can you tell me what verse 30 means?

  8. #58
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    So all five points are Biblical? Thank you for clearing up the fact that you are a member of this cult.
    Which one do you take issue with or do you disagree with all 5 points?

  9. #59
    James Banta
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    Well... No response.. What does that mean? When I see that it means that there is no answer.. While I don't demand that a person believes the 5 points of Calvinism to be saved, holding faith in the Jesus of the Bible does that, I do ask people to look at Calvinism though the light of the scripture.. You may gain a bit more respect for those that find the teachings of Calvinism to be more Biblical than you had thought.. To my brothers and sisters here, Thanks for putting up with this foolish old man.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 10-22-2013 at 07:55 AM.

  10. #60
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Oh but anyone believes the Bible and see it taught that a christian is the property of Jesus no one can take us away from Him, Papa calls them a Calvinist.. I have studied the 5 points of Calvinism and even as a Baptist I see the Biblical authority of each point.. IHS jim
    Well, the LDSinc. crowd will come back soon with their goal post changing ideas adding a few points to your 5 point on Calvinistations. The fact of Jesus of the Holy Bible is all one needs to look for in their own Salvation will certainly be overlooked on their part.
    Last edited by RealFakeHair; 10-21-2013 at 01:08 PM.

  11. #61
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Well... No response.. What does that mean? When I see that it means that there is no answer.. While I don't demand that a person believes the 5 points of Calvinism to be saved, holding faith in the Jesus of the Bible does that, I do ask people to look at Calvinism though the light of the scripture.. You may gain a bit more respect for those that find the teachings of Calvinism to be more Biblical than you had thought.. To my brothers and sisters here, Thanks for putting up with this foolish old man.. IHS jim
    I see DB still attacking Calvinism but does bother to address the BIBLICAL support for each point.. Why even think about the Biblical evidence when you have had your leaders make up you mind for you.. No one taught me Calvinism I hadn't even read the five points until someone online called me a Calvinist.. I read the point studied the Biblical support for each point and realized that I do accept all five point.. I can say the same thing for the Creeds.. I have never read the creeds and then I was called a creedal Christian.. After reading them I saw that they were just a abridged statement of faith that is found in the NT..

    So I confess, I am a creedal, Calvinist.. I am because these doctrines are totally Biblical.. Dose God know all things? YES! Therefore He knows who are His and who will be lost.. It is already sealed.. And what parent throws a child away never to see them or have anything to do with them again.. NONE! Because the LDS teach that all of mankind are His children doesn't make it true.. The Bible teaches that those that don't come to Jesus in faith are children of the devil, not children of God. One must come to God in faith confessing their sin and Jesus as their Lord and God and be born of Him spiritually to become His children.. All that which is missing and even scorned in mormonism. But this is held as the Christian standard in the Bible, the creeds, and in Calvinism.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 10-23-2013 at 11:02 AM.

  12. #62
    MacG
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    Just so it does not look like no one answered

    Sub-thread moved to a new post by dberrie2000

    http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...The-Redemption
    Last edited by MacG; 10-23-2013 at 12:10 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    So Baptists lack a full understanding of the Bible according to Calvinists...also I know a number of Baptists who believe all five points.
    PaPa, I think you may not fully understand Calvinism. Could you show us from Scripture where you think it departs from the faith once delivered to the Saints?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  14. #64
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    PaPa, I think you may not fully understand Calvinism. Could you show us from Scripture where you think it departs from the faith once delivered to the Saints?

    While I know of no Christian, Calvinist or not, that would ever put any conditions on our salvation other than holding faith in Jesus, I find that the Calvinists are not unbiblical in holding those five point as a statement of faith in what God has done for them. Papa seem to believe that Calvinism is some poison pill. That taking it ***ures total rejection by the Father and the Son, ****ing those that believe in Calvinistic teachings to the fellowship of the Holy Spirit.. And does that sound so bad? Living eternally in the presence of GOD, the Holy Spirit? Sounds like what I would expect only I would add the persons of Jesus and therefore the Father to those I will worship eternally as my KING, my LORD, my God, my first LOVE.. IHS jim

  15. #65
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    PaPa, I think you may not fully understand Calvinism. Could you show us from Scripture where you think it departs from the faith once delivered to the Saints?
    PaPa might tell you, if he replies, that Arminians have already done a pretty good *** of using the Bible to expose the untrue parts of TULIP.

  16. #66
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    . . .that Arminians have already done a pretty good *** of using the Bible to expose the untrue parts of TULIP.
    Jeff why don't you pick one of the 5 points and we can discuss it.

  17. #67
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Jeff why don't you pick one of the 5 points and we can discuss it.
    Been there, done that, why spend the time putting together an original re****al to it when there are sites dedicated to refuting TULIP already on the Net?

    http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/openhse/calvinism.html


    is one.

  18. #68
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Been there, done that. . .
    But you still seem to have questions and concerns about it so go ahead and pick one so we can talk about it.

  19. #69
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Oh but anyone believes the Bible and see it taught that a christian is the property of Jesus no one can take us away from Him, Papa calls them a Calvinist.. I have studied the 5 points of Calvinism and even as a Baptist I see the Biblical authority of each point.. IHS jim
    No one can take you away, with one exception; we can take us from Christ.

  20. #70
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    PaPa might tell you, if he replies, that Arminians have already done a pretty good *** of using the Bible to expose the untrue parts of TULIP.
    The two belief systems advanced through murder, war and deception, I just agree with one more than the other. The odd thing is most Martyr's were killed by differing belief systems in "Christianity.

  21. #71
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

    PaPa can you tell me what verse 30 means?
    What of all that surrounds this verse by some 1,500 pages. The words of Christ, "I was lifted up that I might draw all men unto me. "All" has only one meaning.

  22. #72
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    What of all that surrounds this verse by some 1,500 pages. The words of Christ, "I was lifted up that I might draw all men unto me. "All" has only one meaning.
    All in all you're pretty close to the truth, but there is one thing thou lackest, and that is Might.I might be the world's best looking man, but then maybe I might not.

  23. #73
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    All in all you're pretty close to the truth, but there is one thing thou lackest, and that is Might.I might be the world's best looking man, but then maybe I might not.
    That is the point, all have the ability if they will accept him...not preselected for heaven or hell. Christ did not say "some".

  24. #74
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    That is the point, all have the ability if they will accept him...not preselected for heaven or hell. Christ did not say "some".
    Here is the catch 22; If we say all men might, but then say God of the Holy Bible is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, an Omniscient, we can only come to one conclusion. We may have free agent, but God of the Holy Bible already knows what we choose. What ever we choose it will always fit God of the Holy Bible's plains.
    So, do we really have a choice?

  25. #75
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    Here is the catch 22; If we say all men might, but then say God of the Holy Bible is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, an Omniscient, we can only come to one conclusion. We may have free agent, but God of the Holy Bible already knows what we choose. What ever we choose it will always fit God of the Holy Bible's plains.
    So, do we really have a choice?
    Knowing the outcome of the game, does not mean you are directing the players beforehand. If we cannot choose, then you are back to irresitable Grace and God as the puppet master.

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