Why Christianity is the truth

[James Banta]

I have shown why mormonism is a lie this thread is why Christianity is the truth. It also again proves that mormonism is not Christian..

Christianity affirms that there is one God, and that this God has been God from everlasting past and will continue to be the one true God into everlasting future (Deut 6:4, Psalm 90:2, Isaiah 43:10)

Jesus promised that the Church (Which can into existence at Pentecost) would continue throughout all time (Matthew 16:18)

God gives those He wills His salvation by His Grace though Faith in Jesus and that not of ourselves, it is gift of God NOT OF WORKS. (Eph 2:8-9)

God doesn't call prophets to direct the paths of His Church.. Jesus directs His Church directly not though any men (Heb 1:1-2)..

Priesthood is a calling all members of the Church carry. The Church (The people) are to offer the sacrifice of prayer and praise. That is the duty of priests (Hebrews 13:15)

God created our spirits within us. We didn't exist at all until that creative act of God was complete within our flesh (Zech 12:1)

The Church holds that the Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Timothy 3:15-17). It is held to be perfect in it's intent and meaning as it was when it was first given to Apostles and prophets that recorded it (Matthew 24:35).

Can Mormonism point to the Bible as they attempt to counter each of these statements? NO! They turn to the craftiness of men as they twist the truth of God's word into a lie.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I have shown why mormonism is a lie this thread is why Christianity is the truth. It also again proves that mormonism is not Christian..

Christianity affirms that there is one God, and that this God has been God from everlasting past and will continue to be the one true God into everlasting future (Deut 6:4, Psalm 90:2, Isaiah 43:10)

Jesus promised that the Church (Which can into existence at Pentecost) would continue throughout all time (Matthew 16:18)

God gives those He wills His salvation by His Grace though Faith in Jesus and that not of ourselves, it is gift of God NOT OF WORKS. (Eph 2:8-9)

God doesn't call prophets to direct the paths of His Church.. Jesus directs His Church directly not though any men (Heb 1:1-2)..

Priesthood is a calling all members of the Church carry. The Church (The people) are to offer the sacrifice of prayer and praise. That is the duty of priests (Hebrews 13:15)

God created our spirits within us. We didn't exist at all until that creative act of God was complete within our flesh (Zech 12:1)

The Church holds that the Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Timothy 3:15-17). It is held to be perfect in it's intent and meaning as it was when it was first given to Apostles and prophets that recorded it (Matthew 24:35).

Can Mormonism point to the Bible as they attempt to counter each of these statements? NO! They turn to the craftiness of men as they twist the truth of God's word into a lie.. IHS jim

Faith vs Facts, but only the facts I'm concern about in LDSinc. Propaganda. If LDSinc. Wish to teach god of mormonism has a father and his father has a father, and his son the mormon jesus has a brother name Satan, who am I to tell the to stop? However when they try and tell us the Holy Bible says so then they have crossed the line.
If LDSinc. Wish to teach the mormon god told Joseph Smith jr. He must teach and practice polygamy or died at the hand of an angel, let them knock themslves out, but then say he didn't practice it as the angel decribed is totally BS!
*Smith and 19-year-old Zina D. Hunington

Smith further cemented his reputation for fooling around by making moves on a then-married teenager, Zina D. Hunington, who he asked on 25 October 1841 to become another of his multiple wives. Smith informed her (using a line he also employed with Emma and others) that he was ordered to do so by a sword-wielding angel who was threatening to kill him if he disobeyed:

“Already married, 19 year-old Zina remained conflicted with Smith's polygamy proposal 'until a day in October, apparently, when Joseph sent [her older brother] Dimick to her with a message: an angel with a drawn sword had stood over Smith and told him that if he did not establish polygamy, he would lose “his position and his life.” Zina, faced with the responsibility for his position as prophet, and even perhaps his life, finally acquiesced.' They were secretly married within days “
(Todd Compton, “In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith,” pp. 80-81, cited in ibid).

If LDSinc. faithful wish to believe, but will not admit to the LDSinc. mormon god having sex with his daughter Mary, let them keep their secret to themselves, but when they are confronted with the evidence;
President Young spoke of the first organization of this school by Joseph Smith the Prophet. The Word of Wisdom was given in this school. President Young said Adam was Michael the arch angel and he was the father of Jesus Christ and was our God and that Joseph taught this principle." Wilford Woodruff Journal, Vol.4, p.288, September 17, 1854
Their testimony is that Mary's son is God's Son; that he was conceived and begotten in the normal way; that he took upon himself mortality by the natural birth processes; that he inherited the power of mortality from his mother and the power of immortality from his Father-in consequence of all of which he was able to work out the infinite and eternal atonement." Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah: The First Coming of Christ, p.472
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father!" President Ezra Taft Benson, Come Unto Christ, p.
"Now, we are told in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father ... Jesus is the only person who had our Heavenly Father as the father of his body." Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Family Home Evening Manual, 1972, pp.125,126

Our Father in heaven is the Father of Jesus Christ, both in the spirit and in the flesh..I believe firmly that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh..not as the Son of the Holy Ghost, but the Son of God..Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" President Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1. p. 18
"The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. (Adam) He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, 8:115

Okay LDSinc. lie your way out of this!

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Okay LDSinc. lie your way out of this!

I don't see them as lying about the idea that the Bible is wrong about Jesus not being conceived of the Holy Spirit. They admit that but believe that their God Elohim committed incest with his own daughter impregnating her with the being that would become Jesus..

And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says. (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 742)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was fathered by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father (Ezra Taft Benson, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, pp. 724-725)

For Latter-day Saints, the paternity of Jesus is not obscure. He was the literal, biological son of an immortal, tangible Father and Mary(Ibid, Vol 2, p. 729)

Surely this is a clear statement that the LDS know better than what God has taught us in the Bible that:

Matthew 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Not only do the LDS demand that the Father is a separate being of flesh and Bone, but they deny the Bible that Mary was not with Child of the Holy Spirit but of a man exalted but never the less a man.. (Col 1:15, D&C 130:22).. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I don't see them as lying about the idea that the Bible is wrong about Jesus not being conceived of the Holy Spirit. They admit that but believe that their God Elohim committed incest with his own daughter impregnating her with the being that would become Jesus..

And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says. (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 742)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was fathered by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father (Ezra Taft Benson, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, pp. 724-725)

For Latter-day Saints, the paternity of Jesus is not obscure. He was the literal, biological son of an immortal, tangible Father and Mary(Ibid, Vol 2, p. 729)

Surely this is a clear statement that the LDS know better than what God has taught us in the Bible that:

Matthew 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Not only do the LDS demand that the Father is a separate being of flesh and Bone, but they deny the Bible that Mary was not with Child of the Holy Spirit but of a man exalted but never the less a man.. (Col 1:15, D&C 130:22).. IHS jim

Aside from the typical anti-LDS slant and misleading information you are putting forth here (which I wont address since it has been addressed ad nauseum for decades),

why do you call God the Father, The Father, if the Holy Ghost is really the Father? Why does the Father speak from Heaven telling us that Jesus is His beloved Son, if it was really the Holy Ghost?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Aside from the typical anti-LDS slant and misleading information you are putting forth here (which I wont address since it has been addressed ad nauseum for decades),

why do you call God the Father, The Father, if the Holy Ghost is really the Father? Why does the Father speak from Heaven telling us that Jesus is His beloved Son, if it was really the Holy Ghost?

okay, just stop it! There is nothing misleading in any of my statements in this Thread. What is ad nauseum is your LDSinc. lying, and lying and lying about Joseph Smith jr. excuse to have sex with other women, and not just with his Wife.
Why don't we wait and ask God of the Holy Bible why we call Him Father and Jesus His Son? Why did LDSinc. Lie, and Lie, and knowingly lie about the mormon god doin it with Mary, and not just leave it as the Holy Bible says? Luke 1:35
New International Version The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God.
See the Holy Bible says, the Holy Spirit! There is no speculation here, it was your so called prophets who changed it from the Holy Spirit, to your mormon god and the question is why? Because it fit the narrative of mormon gods having sex in the mormon heaven and the mormon god having sex on earth and the humans born of the mormon god of heaven having sex with their human wives here on earth, and then after death the exalted humans becoming gods and goddess in the mormon heaven and having sex to product spirit babies for their own future earth like planet. It is all about sex, sex and nothing more than sex and you all know it to be true what I am saying!
So just stop all the pretending and admit to the Hell and ****ation of Joseph Smith jr. and the LDSinc. And them maybe then there is some hope for you!

[RealFakeHair]

Okay here is more if you still wish to put your heads in the LDSinc. sand!

"Two exciting elements of mortality, both God-given, are worthy of our
consideration. The first is that we receive a body that is physical, tangible,
one that has feelings and powers not yet enjoyed by a spirit. This body is to
facilitate our progress toward becoming like our Heavenly Father. Keep in mind
that this 'gift' was created in the EXACT LIKENESS OF HIM WHOSE CHILDREN WE
ARE. The second element is that some powers given to us through our bodies are
inherently of God, and ARE UNIQUE TO HIS ORDER OF LIFE. Our natural feelings
concerning the power to 'reproduce after our own kind' are holy and desirable.
All we have and are, so far as our natural state is concerned, is good, for it
is of God.......The powers to reproduce, then, are good, and cannot be
considered evil......."(Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 17).

Luke 1:35 says, speaking of Mary, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the
power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing
which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
Some Mormon leaders have interpreted this verse to mean that for Mary, a human,
to be able to 'withstand the presence of God,' that the Holy Ghost had to come
upon her:
"The Holy Ghost is the messenger of the Father and the Son. Mortal beings
could not endure the presence of the Father without the Spirit overshadowing
them, and that was the mission of the Holy Ghost, but not to beget the Son of
God, THAT WAS THE BUSINESS OF THE FATHER. Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten
Son of God the Father in the flesh, and in holding to this doctrine President
Brigham Young is in perfect accord with the teachings in the Bible."
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 5, p. 128).

Here is the statement of BY's that JFS supports:
"When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in
his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the
Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he (Christ) took a
tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as
the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam
and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same
character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven."
(JoD 1:50-51, also "Answers", vol. 5, p. 121).

To illustrate more clearly that BY meant that Christ's conception was actual
physical sex, here is another of his statements:
"The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it
was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD--was begotten
of his father, as we were of our fathers." (JoD, vol. 8, p. 115).

Here are a few more quotes from the 1962 Gospel Doctrine Sunday School Lesson
Manual "Gospel Living in the Home," p. 16-17:
"Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily OFFSPRING; that
is to say, Elohim is LITERALLY the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and
also of the BODY in which Jesus Christ performed his mission in the flesh..."
(as quoted from 'The Articles of Faith' by James E. Talmage, p. 466).

"We are told in the scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of
God in the flesh....how are children begotten? I answer, just as Jesus was
begotten of his Father. The Christian denominations believe that Christ was
begotten not of God, but of the spirit that overshadowed his mother. THIS IS
NONSENSE. Why will they not believe the Father when He says that Jesus Christ
is His Only Begotten Son? Why will they try to EXPLAIN THIS TRUTH AWAY and
make mystery of it?" (as quoted from Joseph F. Smith, 'Box Elder Times,' Sep.
22, 1914).

"When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the
world and take a tabernacle, the Father came himself and favored that Spirit
with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was
begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same being who is the Father of
our spirits, AND THAT IS ALL THE ORGANIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JESUS CHRIST AND
YOU AND ME." (as quoted from 'Discourses of Brigham Young," 1925 edition, p.
77).

"The Holy Ghost came upon Mary, her conception was under that influence, even
of the spirit of life; our Father in Heaven was the Father of the Son of
Mary....." (as quoted from Joseph Fielding Smith, 'Man: His Origin and
Destiny), p. 345.)

To allay any repugnancy from members on the idea of God having actual physical
relations with the human Mary, some leaders pitched the idea that Mary was one
of God's polygamous "celestial wives":

"The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore,
the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been
***ociated in the capacity of husband and wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have
been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term
lawful wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that
He overshadowed her or begat the Savior unlawfully........He had a lawful right
to overshadow the Virgin Mary IN THE CAPACITY OF A HUSBAND, and beget a
Son.......Whether God the Father gave Mary to Joseph for time only, or for time
and eternity, we are not informed. It may be that He only gave her to be the
wife of Joseph while in this
mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as
one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity."
Apostle Orson Pratt, "The Seer," Oct. 1853, p. 158).

Pratt's statement is supported by one from Brigham Young: "The man Joseph, the
husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary
the wife of Joseph had another husband." (Deseret News, Oct. 10, 1866).

The same idea is repeated in "The Life and Teachings of Jesus", 1974, p. 29:
"Joseph was a mortal soul in premortality to be blessed with the signal honor
of coming to earth and acting as THE LEGAL GUARDIAN OF THE SON OF THE ETERNAL
FATHER IN THE FLESH."

And another statement from this same 1974 lesson manual, distributed to tens of
thousands of LDS Ins***ute students: "She, (Mary), heavy with child, traveled
all that distance on mule-back, guarded and protected as one about to give
birth to A HALF-DEITY. No other man in the history of this world of ours has
ever had such an ancestry--God the Father on the one hand and Mary the Virgin
on the other."

I repeat a quote from Ezra Taft Benson from 1988, published while he was
president of the LDS church: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in THE MOST LITERAL SENSE. The
body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was SIRED by that same Holy
Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father." (Teachings of ET Benson, p. 6).

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

okay, just stop it! There is nothing misleading in any of my statements in this Thread. What is ad nauseum is your LDSinc. lying, and lying and lying about Joseph Smith jr. excuse to have sex with other women, and not just with his Wife.
Why don't we wait and ask God of the Holy Bible why we call Him Father and Jesus His Son? Why did LDSinc. Lie, and Lie, and knowingly lie about the mormon god doin it with Mary, and not just leave it as the Holy Bible says? Luke 1:35
New International Version The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God.
See the Holy Bible says, the Holy Spirit! There is no speculation here, it was your so called prophets who changed it from the Holy Spirit, to your mormon god and the question is why? Because it fit the narrative of mormon gods having sex in the mormon heaven and the mormon god having sex on earth and the humans born of the mormon god of heaven having sex with their human wives here on earth, and then after death the exalted humans becoming gods and goddess in the mormon heaven and having sex to product spirit babies for their own future earth like planet. It is all about sex, sex and nothing more than sex and you all know it to be true what I am saying!
So just stop all the pretending and admit to the Hell and ****ation of Joseph Smith jr. and the LDSinc. And them maybe then there is some hope for you!

The only time I have seen the word "sex" when it comes to how Jesus Christ was conceived, is when you write it.

With all your blustering about sex, it is ironic that you are actually arguing that the LDS people are the ones obsessed with sex. Just look at your post above, and we see who is really the obsessed one.

So please don't dodge my question.

Who is the Father and why do you call the Father "Father" of Jesus if you really believe the Holy Ghost is the Father?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

The only time I have seen the word "sex" when it comes to how Jesus Christ was conceived, is when you write it.

But LDS leaders have brought up this concept as the way in which Jesus was conceived. That is why this keeps coming up.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

Who is the Father and why do you call the Father "Father" of Jesus. . .

The Father is God the Father and we call Him the Father because the Bible identifies Him as the Father.

Originally Posted by Sir

if you really believe the Holy Ghost is the Father?

The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The Father is the Father and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

You dodged.

I understand why.

But that's okay because I rather not play on your merry-go-round.

You go ahead and continue your MO of asking questions and answering questions not asked and ignoring the answers to questions asked.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

You dodged.

Not a dodge at all here is my post again.

Originally Posted by Sir

Who is the Father and why do you call the Father "Father" of Jesus. . .

The Father is God the Father and we call Him the Father because the Bible identifies Him as the Father.

Originally Posted by Sir

if you really believe the Holy Ghost is the Father?

The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

You dodged.

I understand why.

You set up a straw man argument and then when I point it out you try to escape by saying that I dodge and "play on your merry-go-round" and this is your way to try and bow out.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You set up a straw man argument and then when I point it out you try to escape by saying that I dodge and "play on your merry-go-round" and this is your way to try and bow out.

No, I quoted your post in my response. But you went back and changed your post to what it says now.

No strawman.

It was a simple question.

You can claim I am trying to escape it, but you didn't answer the question.

James stated "but they deny the Bible that Mary was not with Child of the Holy Spirit"

So why isn't the Holy Spirit the "father" if that's really the case?

So continue dodging and trying to taunt me into playing with you (you learned that from BrianH).

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Aside from the typical anti-LDS slant and misleading information you are putting forth here (which I wont address since it has been addressed ad nauseum for decades),

why do you call God the Father, The Father, if the Holy Ghost is really the Father? Why does the Father speak from Heaven telling us that Jesus is His beloved Son, if it was really the Holy Ghost?

God is the Father.. Look what it says about who Jesus is in Isaiah 9:6

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Do you know of any other Child that has ever been born that is called The Mighty God? The Prince of Peace? But look this Child that was born unto us is also the Everlasting Father! y4s The Father in heaven is called the Father, but so is Jesus and because Mary was found to be with Child of the Holy Spirit so He too is the Father.. It because He is God and God is the Father.. It is common to see mormons contradict the Bible in important matters such as the nature of the Being of God.. It is very sad to see you doubt the truth of God recorded in His word and protected by His promise that heaven and earth would die but His word would never die. It is terrible of you to call Jesus a liar and believe that the Bible meaning has been changes and some glorified man can to one of his daughters be gave life to is her first estate and had physical sex with her..

That doctrine means that Jesus was lying as he taught that God is Spirit. Not has a spirit but is a spirit.. That a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone as we have. As the Holy Spirit teaches through the Apostle. Jesus is the image of the INVISIBLE God.. Not unseen, But invisible.. That means that He can't be seen.. All that which is found clearly in the Bible isn't just denied by mormonism it is condemned.. Even your response is a condemnation of the Scripture. The ONLY reason you do that is that the Bible is so clear in the teaching. The Bible tells is clearly that Mary was found to be with Child by the Holy Spirit.. The only way for mormonism to survive teaching that the Holy Spirit is the person by which Mary was impregnated is to attack the scripture, and that you do.. The scripture survives the attack and your attack fails.. EVERY TIME.

This statement that it was the Holy Spirit whereby Mary was with Child confirms the doctrine of the Trinity. If it didn't that would mean that Jesus lied as He prophesied that His words would always be there. If he lied He isn't God, the Christ. If He isn't we have no hope and all of us look forward only to the Lake of Fire..

The Father is the Father because that is His place as God.. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the Father because that is their place as God.. What p***age do you have that teaches that Jesus or the Holy Spirit aren't the Father? I have just shown you where they are called that or held the position as Father. There is One God the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.. God is the Father.. Each of the Persons of God is God therefore they are the Father.. A=B, B=C, so A=C.. We don't even need it stated that Jesus is the Everlasting Father but we do have that clearly stated in His word.. Your denial hasn't a leg to stand on.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

The only time I have seen the word "sex" when it comes to how Jesus Christ was conceived, is when you write it.

With all your blustering about sex, it is ironic that you are actually arguing that the LDS people are the ones obsessed with sex. Just look at your post above, and we see who is really the obsessed one.

So please don't dodge my question.

Who is the Father and why do you call the Father "Father" of Jesus if you really believe the Holy Ghost is the Father?

I will grant you that LDS leaders used language that could be used in mixed company but the meaning is still there..

Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pp. 546-47).

Tell me sir, what is the way mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.. I am happy to use the language that Elder McConkie used in that statement.. It is a more "G" rated way of saying just what RFH said.. I answered your question clearly as to who God is and that He is the Father.. Go read it again.. Seems you need more schooling on the Nature of God.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

God is the Father.. Look what it says about who Jesus is in Isaiah 9:6

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Do you know of any other Child that has ever been born that is called The Mighty God? The Prince of Peace? But look this Child that was born unto us is also the Everlasting Father! y4s The Father in heaven is called the Father, but so is Jesus and because Mary was found to be with Child of the Holy Spirit so He too is the Father.. It because He is God and God is the Father.. It is common to see mormons contradict the Bible in important matters such as the nature of the Being of God.. It is very sad to see you doubt the truth of God recorded in His word and protected by His promise that heaven and earth would die but His word would never die. It is terrible of you to call Jesus a liar and believe that the Bible meaning has been changes and some glorified man can to one of his daughters be gave life to is her first estate and had physical sex with her..

That doctrine means that Jesus was lying as he taught that God is Spirit. Not has a spirit but is a spirit.. That a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone as we have. As the Holy Spirit teaches through the Apostle. Jesus is the image of the INVISIBLE God.. Not unseen, But invisible.. That means that He can't be seen.. All that which is found clearly in the Bible isn't just denied by mormonism it is condemned.. Even your response is a condemnation of the Scripture. The ONLY reason you do that is that the Bible is so clear in the teaching. The Bible tells is clearly that Mary was found to be with Child by the Holy Spirit.. The only way for mormonism to survive teaching that the Holy Spirit is the person by which Mary was impregnated is to attack the scripture, and that you do.. The scripture survives the attack and your attack fails.. EVERY TIME.

This statement that it was the Holy Spirit whereby Mary was with Child confirms the doctrine of the Trinity. If it didn't that would mean that Jesus lied as He prophesied that His words would always be there. If he lied He isn't God, the Christ. If He isn't we have no hope and all of us look forward only to the Lake of Fire..

The Father is the Father because that is His place as God.. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the Father because that is their place as God.. What p***age do you have that teaches that Jesus or the Holy Spirit aren't the Father? I have just shown you where they are called that or held the position as Father. There is One God the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.. God is the Father.. Each of the Persons of God is God therefore they are the Father.. A=B, B=C, so A=C.. We don't even need it stated that Jesus is the Everlasting Father but we do have that clearly stated in His word.. Your denial hasn't a leg to stand on.. IHS jim

So James said all 3 are the Father.

Billy said, "The Father is the Father and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father."

The Christian "Creeds" say "The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts."

"And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father."

----But James can go ahead and imply I am a liar, that I call Jesus a liar, etc. All of which is false, but that's all he has and the few readers here known him and know that. While James claims to use the Bible to support his positions, he runs counter to the creeds that the majority of Christians adhere to. So who do we believe? This just reaffirms the problems on apostate mainstream Christianity.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I will grant you that LDS leaders used language that could be used in mixed company but the meaning is still there..

Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pp. 546-47).

Tell me sir, what is the way mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.. I am happy to use the language that Elder McConkie used in that statement.. It is a more "G" rated way of saying just what RFH said.. I answered your question clearly as to who God is and that He is the Father.. Go read it again.. Seems you need more schooling on the Nature of God.. IHS jim

Nice try at the "schooling" comment.

let me school you. 2 of my 3 kids were conceived through means other than sex.

So thanks for the invitation to "school" me. If I need any help in committing adultery and cheating on my wife, I might need your schooling, but other than that....

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Nice try at the "schooling" comment.

let me school you. 2 of my 3 kids were conceived through means other than sex.

So thanks for the invitation to "school" me. If I need any help in committing adultery and cheating on my wife, I might need your schooling, but other than that....

Your children may not have been the product of sexual intercourse but they were still a conceived by the uniting of one male sexual cell and one female sexual cell.. The mortal body of Jesus was not so.. His mortal body was a creative act of God as conducted by the person of the Holy Spirit.. Please call the scripture a lie again.. It makes you look so spiritual, NOT...

You might already need help in understanding that you have sinned.. That since you have sinned, you are guilty of the whole Law.. Whether you have committed adultery you are no less guilty of it than I am.. But you can also deny the truth of God's word found in the Book of James too if you feel the need to call God's word lies.. See I can claim another verse that teaches that if we Confess our sin (and you even know about my sin) He is FAITHFUL AND JUST to forgive my sin and cleanse me of ALL unrighteousness.. It is clear that holding that sin against me when God has cleaned me, you stand guilty of acting on Satan's behalf in accusing, much more than I am in claiming His forgiveness.. Yes it seems you need a lot of schooling.. Good swing but that is clearly a swing and a miss.. You have struck out on that old accusation time and again.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

So James said all 3 are the Father.

Billy said, "The Father is the Father and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father."

The Christian "Creeds" say "The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts."

"And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father."

----But James can go ahead and imply I am a liar, that I call Jesus a liar, etc. All of which is false, but that's all he has and the few readers here known him and know that. While James claims to use the Bible to support his positions, he runs counter to the creeds that the majority of Christians adhere to. So who do we believe? This just reaffirms the problems on apostate mainstream Christianity.

Watch my lips.. ALL THREE ARE GOD.. There is one God not three gods.. Therefore all three persons are the same Being.. It is as proper to call Jesus Father as it is to call the Father Savior, and the Holy Spirit Lord.. I never said there were three of any of the persons of God.. There in One God not three gods.. Each is just as much God as the others.. If your mind won't allow that don't blame the magnitude of God, blame the smallness of the flesh.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Your children may not have been the product of sexual intercourse but they were still a conceived by the uniting of one male sexual cell and one female sexual cell.. The mortal body of Jesus was not so.. His mortal body was a creative act of God as conducted by the person of the Holy Spirit.. Please call the scripture a lie again.. It makes you look so spiritual, NOT...

So now you claim to know for a fact how Jesus was conceived?

You are amazing.

The scriptures do not say the mortal body of Christ was NOT the product of male and female cells. So claiming that I am calling the scriptures a lie is pretty dumb. However, you sure seem to be making up a lot of your own doctrines tonight. That makes you the one peddling lies.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Watch my lips.. ALL THREE ARE GOD.. There is one God not three gods.. Therefore all three persons are the same.. It is as proper to call Jesus Father as it is to call the Father Savior.. You can include the Holy Spirit in that too HE IS GOD ever bit as much as the Father and the Son are God.. IHS jim

Thankfully I cannot see your lips. But you are saying something that the creeds you worship seem to be against.

Even now you are claiming that all 3 persons "are the same". Now you are going into modalist James.

Hard to keep up with all the heretical positions of theology you profess.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

No, I quoted your post in my response. But you went back and changed your post to what it says now.

I revised it just after posting it, prior to seeing your post.

Originally Posted by Sir

No straw man. Christians don't believe the Holy Ghost is the Father. That is a straw man.

Sure it was. Below is from your post. Christians don't believe that the Holy Ghost is the Father. That is a straw man.

Originally Posted by Sir

if you really believe the Holy Ghost is the Father?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

So why isn't the Holy Spirit the "father" if that's really the case?

Because the Bible clearly tells us the the Father is the Father and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Why on earth do you want to change the names that they have been given?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

So now you claim to know for a fact how Jesus was conceived?

You are amazing.

The scriptures do not say the mortal body of Christ was NOT the product of male and female cells. So claiming that I am calling the scriptures a lie is pretty dumb. However, you sure seem to be making up a lot of your own doctrines tonight. That makes you the one peddling lies.

The Bible said that Mary KNEW NOT MAN (Luke 1:34).. The Bible said she was with Child of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18).. This was a miraculous event. It had nothing to do with natural reproduction.. I maybe DUMB according to you but what I have said here is Biblical. What you have been inferring is anti-biblical..

I am the one peddling lies now.. I have used ONLY what the Bible has said about the conception and birth of the Lord Jesus..

Here are the "lies" I am peddling..

God is Spirit (John 4:24) as taught by Jesus..

A spirit has not a body of flesh and bone (Luke 24:39). Again that is taught by Jesus..

The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul teaches Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15)

That Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary as a creative act of the Holy Spirit (GOD) (Matthew 1:18-20). He is pure Spirit and sexual contact would not be possible.

These are not lies these are Biblical facts.. You may as well say that there is no God at all as to deny these Biblical truths as lies and the messengers of those truths as lie peddlers.. Tell me do you have it in you at all to use some scripture to support your claims or do you just go by what some man taught in your Gospel Doctrines cl***? IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Thankfully I cannot see your lips. But you are saying something that the creeds you worship seem to be against.

Even now you are claiming that all 3 persons "are the same". Now you are going into modalist James.

Hard to keep up with all the heretical positions of theology you profess.

First Modlism teaches that there is one person that manifests himself as the three persons of God.. I teach there are three Persons. That is NOT Modlism.. Do some study..

Show me were I said I worship the creeds? Do you worship the AofF? They are a creed. All the creeds are, are a statement of faith.. I do disagree with your concept of what the creeds teach. You come at them from an LDS mind believing that there are three separate gods of whom the Father is preeminent. I agree with God that He is one Lord (Deut 6:4). That beside Him there is no savior (Isaiah 43:11). That No other God was formed before Him and none will be formed after Him (Isaiah 43:10). I trust Him that He was truthful as He asked "Is there a God besides me? I know not any" (Isaiah 44:8). Therefore when the Bible teaches that Jesus is God (John 1:1), and that the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4), and that the Father is God (John 20:17) I must say that these Persons are that ONE true and living God. I refuse to toss out the parts of the Bible that makes the human mind wonder how it is possible that three persons are one God. I see what God has said about Himself and agree with Him. He is the Lord our God and He is ONE LORD..

I agree with God that He is one God. I agree that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. That they are that one God.. I agree with the scripture that teachers that the Child that was born unto us is the Mighty God the Everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6). I agree that the Holy Spirit was the agent to Mary that caused her to bring forth the Christ Child.. In that way He is the Father as well.. All three of the Persons the Bible has called God are just as much the Father as the Father since they are the one true God.. The creed are true as far as they go to explain the union of these Persons as one God but the full truth is held in God's word the Bible. You seem to flat deny those truths as you agree with Joseph Smith that:

Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three cons***ute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)

I will tell you who can contradict it, Jesus can:

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord (Mark 12:29)

Smith says there are three, Jesus says there is one. Which one do you think we should believe above the other? DUHHH... IHS jim