I find it strange

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

That whole reason is to bring people to Christ. Why are you calling that a false thing? What better thing could a church do, in your opinion?

WOW you are right! Your church is there to bring people to a Christ who is our elder spirit brother. The brother of the spirit child that became Satan when his plan of salvation was rejected. A Christ that became a god though obedience to the Laws of the Father.. The LDS church denies the Christ who is, was, and will always be GOD.. They deny that He created all things sense some things, other than God, are eternal in their nature. Oxygen, Nitrogen and all the other elements are eternal, right? Being eternal they were never created. Sorry but the Bible teaches that Jesus created ALL THINGS visible and invisible.. I deny the teachings of mormonism and trust the Bible.. Jesus is the eternal God and created all things.. Anything different than that simple Biblical truth teaches a different Jesus and has no relationship to the true God, the true Jesus..

It would be better to teach God, the God revealed in the Bible and some gods invented by Joseph Smith.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The problem Jeff is that it doesn't bring people to the true Christ but rather to a false one.

That would be a bad thing if it was true. Or, it would be a bad thing if the Christ we bring people to was more false than the one you are trying to bring people to. Fortunately, that is not the case.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

That would be a bad thing if it was true. Or, it would be a bad thing if the Christ we bring people to was more false than the one you are trying to bring people to. Fortunately, that is not the case.

Strange we can biblically support the teaching that Jesus has always been God.. We can biblically support the teaching that Jesus created all things. Hey that would include the spirits of men that He created within us! We can biblically support the teaching that Jesus and the Father are one.. We have no need to add the extrabiblical phrase "In Purpose" to the end of that teaching.. Instead mormonism teaches that Jesus was a spirit child born of the Father and His "Mother in heaven" just as it teaches we all were.. That makes Jesus our spirit brother and not our Mighty God, not our everlasting Father. That Jeff makes the LDS Jesus a false Jesus, not the one that is taught to us in the Bible.. Not the Word that was made flesh and DWELT AMONG US.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Strange we can biblically support ...

It's not strange that you can, through eisegesis, find verses that seem to support your beliefs. It's pretty un-surprising, actually, especially when we see how ambiguous some verses are.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

That would be a bad thing if it was true. Or, it would be a bad thing if the Christ we bring people to was more false than the one you are trying to bring people to. Fortunately, that is not the case.

The LDS jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible in many ways Jeff that is why I say that he is a false one. Do you want to discuss some of the LDS beliefs as they pertain to Christ and see if you can show support from the Bible?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The LDS jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible in many ways Jeff that is why I say that he is a false one. Do you want to discuss some of the LDS beliefs as they pertain to Christ and see if you can show support from the Bible?

I bet that for any official LDS doctrine you can name, I can find something in the Bible that could support it. But that game is just a time-waster. I already concede that for any official doctrine of apostate Evangelicalism that I can name, you could find a Bible verse that could seem to support it.

So why not just save time and call it a stalemate and discuss something else?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

I bet that for any official LDS doctrine you can name, I can find something in the Bible that could support it.

Fair enough. Can you show me where it says that Jesus and Satan are brothers from a heavenly father and heavenly mother?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Fair enough. Can you show me where it says that Jesus and Satan are brothers from a heavenly father and heavenly mother?

John 16:12
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
-
John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Acts 1:3
To these also He showed Himself alive after His p***ion by many infallible proofs, being seen by them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

John 16:12
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
-
John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Acts 1:3
To these also He showed Himself alive after His p***ion by many infallible proofs, being seen by them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

Next question, do you think these verses were translated correctly?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

John 16:12
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
-
John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Acts 1:3
To these also He showed Himself alive after His p***ion by many infallible proofs, being seen by them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

Jeff the absence of a statement against your antibiblical doctrines is NOT proof to substantiate them as God's truth.. Why would Jesus suddenly deny His word (He is God), and tell us that He DIDN'T create all things, when His word teaches that He DID? That He really hasn't been eternally God when His word says that He has.. No, not every word Jesus ever spoke was recorded. But that which has been recorded is the standard by which we can know something about that which was left out.. Jesus didn't change His teaching that God is One Lord. He didn't suddenly start teaching that God is a tangible physical Being. What God has told us is His word. He doesn't lie, He doesn't change (Mal 3:6). Back in the early days of the LDS church (November 1, 1831) even Joseph Smith agreed with that:

D&C 1:38
What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth p*** away, my word shall not p*** away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

In the light of that statement do you still believe that a change in God's word, a change that effects it's meaning, ever occurred in the Bible which you also believe is His word? Can you believe that anything Jesus said that wasn't recorded could have changed what was recorded? That Jesus could have been spirit brothers with the angelic being that became Satan rather than His creator? Your text in no was shows that God changed the teaching that are given to us in the Bible.. Jesus is God, and God's word endures forever (1 Peter 1:25).. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Like I said, thanks to 2 things, it is possible to "find" support in the Bible for lots of things, including God's approval of slavery and genocide, and an earth-centric universe. Those 2 things are:

1. The ambiguity of many Bible verses.

2. The desire or proclivity of some people to misinterpret things.

One could even be led to believe that the 3 persons of the Godhead are literally one being, if one is not careful.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Like I said, thanks to 2 things, it is possible to "find" support in the Bible for lots of things, including God's approval of slavery and genocide, and an earth-centric universe. Those 2 things are:

1. The ambiguity of many Bible verses.

2. The desire or proclivity of some people to misinterpret things.

One could even be led to believe that the 3 persons of the Godhead are literally one being, if one is not careful.

Aint it funny how you can find controverial things in the Holy Bible, but not support for polygamy, eternal marriage, God the Father having a father, LDSinc. Temple whatever goes on in there, and last but not least, your mormon god having sex with his earthly daughter Mary......

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Aint it funny how you can find controverial things in the Holy Bible, but not support for polygamy, eternal marriage, God the Father having a father, LDSinc. Temple whatever goes on in there, and last but not least, your mormon god having sex with his earthly daughter Mary......

Wrong.

Just off the top of my head I can cite biblical verses to support the notion of polygamy and eternal marriage for example.

And also it is quite telling that you claim ig.norance to what goes on in the temple but think the Bible doesn't support what goes on inside. You should read Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley, for starters. Quite interesting read about it.

As for God having sex, you seem to be the only one fixated on sex around here. You might consider looking into that issue and figuring out a solution to that problem.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Wrong.

Just off the top of my head I can cite biblical verses to support the notion of polygamy and eternal marriage for example.

And also it is quite telling that you claim ig.norance to what goes on in the temple but think the Bible doesn't support what goes on inside. You should read Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley, for starters. Quite interesting read about it.

As for God having sex, you seem to be the only one fixated on sex around here. You might consider looking into that issue and figuring out a solution to that problem.

I'll be around all day, if you got those scriptures. Oh, I guess Brigham Young and I must have something in common.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

I'll be around all day, if you got those scriptures.

Nah. No point. The point is I can use the Bible to support such beliefs. That was what Jeff is saying. Obviously you will disagree with the verses I cite to support it, which was the other part of Jeff's point.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Nah. No point. The point is I can use the Bible to support such beliefs. That was what Jeff is saying. Obviously you will disagree with the verses I cite to support it, which was the other part of Jeff's point.

Oh shoot, another LDSinc. cop-out.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Oh shoot, another LDSinc. cop-out.

Nice try.

It's not a cop-out. The issue is whether or not the Bible can be used to support LDS beliefs. I can do that with polygamy, eternal marriage, etc.

The issue isn't to try and get you to agree with me since you won't. Besides, these issues have been hashed out many times before with the same results. It becomes a merry-go-round.

You seemed to have missed the point of the conversation.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Nice try.

It's not a cop-out. The issue is whether or not the Bible can be used to support LDS beliefs. I can do that with polygamy, eternal marriage, etc.

The issue isn't to try and get you to agree with me since you won't. Besides, these issues have been hashed out many times before with the same results. It becomes a merry-go-round.

You seemed to have missed the point of the conversation.

I never have been accused of missing a point, ah what did you say?
However, in the word of Joseph Smith jr. Me think you is beating around the bushes......

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

I never have been accused of missing a point, ah what did you say?
However, in the word of Joseph Smith jr. Me think you is beating around the bushes......

There you go.

See? Even in just explaining my motives, you will see a way to disagree with and not believe me. How much more do people do that with their interpretation of the Bible; believe their interpretation is right and supports their beliefs and others are wrong.

That was the point.

Thank you for the great example

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

There you go.

See? Even in just explaining my motives, you will see a way to disagree with and not believe me. How much more do people do that with their interpretation of the Bible; believe their interpretation is right and supports their beliefs and others are wrong.

That was the point.

Thank you for the great example

You are welcomed. Now back to the scriptures, which scriptures teach eternal marriage and commandment of polygamy?
I like the story of the angel with th sword over Joseph Smith jr. Head, don't you? I don't think my wife would ever buy it though.

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;148999]Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Like I said, thanks to 2 things, it is possible to "find" support in the Bible for lots of things, including God's approval of slavery and genocide, and an earth-centric universe. Those 2 things are:

1. The ambiguity of many Bible verses.

Good time to be asking the God the Holy Spirit to teach you His truths.. He knows His word better than you do and to Him it wouldn't be ambiguous..

2. The desire or proclivity of some people to misinterpret things.

One could even be led to believe that the 3 persons of the Godhead are literally one being, if one is not careful.

Does the Bible teach genocide? Yes.. Do we understand the reasons God commanded that and saw the murder of a few babies at Bethlehem as a big deal? Nope, I could guess, but I have no Biblical reason for God's will in the matter of the genocide that He commanded.. I will just say He has the right to command the death of anyone He chooses.. You have no right to question Him UNLESS you are going to turn atheist denying God completely.. Then you can question Him, but my answer will not change..

Through the ages man has used slavery the same way employers in our time have employees. The Bible does report on man inhumanity to his fellows. God never approves of inhumanity. God's message to us included information about this planet. Not it's place in the solar system. But the Bible was the very first book that gave any indication of how the Earth fits at all scientifically in the cosmos.. (Isaiah 40:22, *** 26:7). Yes there is some more romantic language about the four corners of the earth, and the pillars where it rests. But those have been common metaphors in literature for thousands of years even by those that had no knowledge of the Bible. Nut still when God chose to instruct us in science His knowledge is made known.. If you read His word and allow Him to teach you His truth you will see easily that The Lord the True and Living God is one Lord.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Nah. No point. The point is I can use the Bible to support such beliefs. That was what Jeff is saying. Obviously you will disagree with the verses I cite to support it, which was the other part of Jeff's point.

All you have is God instruction to David to care for those who couldn't care for themselves.. The wives of Saul.. God gave then to David, He never said to makes them His wives (2 Sam 12:7-9).. You have done what a lot of people have done through the ages.. You have stopped listening and made up what you want the scripture to say instead of what it does say.. Time to reread the p***age.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

All you have is God instruction to David to care for those who couldn't care for themselves.. The wives of Saul.. God gave then to David, He never said to makes them His wives (2 Sam 12:7-9).. You have done what a lot of people have done through the ages.. You have stopped listening and made up what you want the scripture to say instead of what it does say.. Time to reread the p***age.. IHS jim

No, I proved EXACTLY what Jeff's point is. And YOU proved it too, by claiming that "a lot of people" have used such verses to justify their belief in polygamy. You believe your interpretation is correct and others are wrong. Others believe their interpretation is correct. One verse is used to condone or condemn polygamy, depending on your viewpoint.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

It's not strange that you can, through eisegesis, find verses that seem to support your beliefs. It's pretty un-surprising, actually, especially when we see how ambiguous some verses are.

I don't find any that are ambiguous.. But then the Holy Spirit teaches them to me.. Seem you must depend on the reason of men (LDS Prophets and Apostles) for the what they believe the truth to be.. Strange that all the people I have spoken to here and on many others site that look to Jesus as their God, their Lord, and savior all have the same message from the scripture. Only the LDS seem to have the strange interpretations that come to them by way of mere men.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

No, I proved EXACTLY what Jeff's point is. And YOU proved it too, by claiming that "a lot of people" have used such verses to justify their belief in polygamy. You believe your interpretation is correct and others are wrong. Others believe their interpretation is correct. One verse is used to condone or condemn polygamy, depending on your viewpoint.

The only religions that have done so are those based in the messages of Joseph Smith Jr.. No Christian church see that as permission to live in polygamy.. Only those that see him as a prophet use that verse to justify his teachings.. Sorry you have run into a dead end with that strange idea.. IHS jim