The Unpardonable Sin (and why I don't believe Anti-LDS Inc.)

[Sir]

RealFakeHair stated the following:

"It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin. However on the other hand any TBM that hasn't accept Jesus of the Holy Bible as their Lord and Savior, every day you live in the unpardonable sin; That is blaspheming against the Holy Ghost."

Jesus stated:

Matthew 12:31-32
King James Version (KJV)

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Anti-LDS are so blinded by their hate for the LDS church that they resort to making up their own interpretation of scripture if they think it will apply to the LDS people. Here, for example, we see that speaking against Jesus IS forgivable. Obviously LDS people do not speak AGAINST Jesus since our whole faith is about following Him and looking to His atonement for our salvation. However, critics of Mormons will claim that we do deny Jesus or speak against Him. They then claim that because of this LDS people are guilty of the unpardonable sin. This already goes against the clear teachings of Jesus Himself.

Also, if LDS are guilty of committing the unpardonable sin "everyday", then wouldn't it stand to follow that there is already no forgiveness of that sin in this life or the next and are thusly perpetually condemned now? Why, then, do Anti-LDS try to get LDS to see things their way? To change? To accept Jesus the way they do? If LDS have already committed the unforgivable sin, would that change the LDS' fate? If so, then they make Jesus a liar.

Lastly, as believers in Jesus Christ, LDS are Christians, so according to RFH's first statement, it would be impossible for them to commit the unpardonable sin.

Why do Anti-LDS twist scripture and eisegete verses simply to try to attack the LDS? This is dishonest and another reason LDS do not take their enemies seriously.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Sir

RealFakeHair stated the following:

"It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin. However on the other hand any TBM that hasn't accept Jesus of the Holy Bible as their Lord and Savior, every day you live in the unpardonable sin; That is blaspheming against the Holy Ghost."

Jesus stated:



Anti-LDS are so blinded by their hate for the LDS church that they resort to making up their own interpretation of scripture if they think it will apply to the LDS people. Here, for example, we see that speaking against Jesus IS forgivable. Obviously LDS people do not speak AGAINST Jesus since our whole faith is about following Him and looking to His atonement for our salvation. However, critics of Mormons will claim that we do deny Jesus or speak against Him. They then claim that because of this LDS people are guilty of the unpardonable sin. This already goes against the clear teachings of Jesus Himself.

Also, if LDS are guilty of committing the unpardonable sin "everyday", then wouldn't it stand to follow that there is already no forgiveness of that sin in this life or the next and are thusly perpetually condemned now? Why, then, do Anti-LDS try to get LDS to see things their way? To change? To accept Jesus the way they do? If LDS have already committed the unforgivable sin, would that change the LDS' fate? If so, then they make Jesus a liar.

Lastly, as believers in Jesus Christ, LDS are Christians, so according to RFH's first statement, it would be impossible for them to commit the unpardonable sin.

Why do Anti-LDS twist scripture and eisegete verses simply to try to attack the LDS? This is dishonest and another reason LDS do not take their enemies seriously.

Here is yet another paradox of modern Christianity which cannot be reconciled with the Bible or the gospel.

If it is impossible for the regenerated (Christian) to commit the unpardonable sin, then that leaves only the unregenerated.

If, according to "Faith Aloners" the unregenerated can do nothing "but" deny Christ, then every single person has commited the unparadonable sin before they were regenerated.

Of course... The opposite reality is always true when dealing with Faith Aloners, it is only saved Christians which are even capable of committed the unpardonable sin.

It's a small point against the Faith Aloners which can not be denied, yet, it is a another point which brings down their whole theological house of cards.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Here is yet another paradox. . .

A paradox? Really?

Originally Posted by theway

If, according to "Faith Aloners" the unregenerated can do nothing "but" deny Christ, then every single person has commited the unparadonable sin before they were regenerated.

Who said that the unpardonable sin was to "deny Christ"?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

A paradox? Really?

Yes... Really!

Originally Posted by Billyray

Who said that the unpardonable sin was to "deny Christ"?

Why.... AntiMormon Posters have on this very forum. We were trying to correct him, but you know how that goes....LOL.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

RealFakeHair stated the following:

"It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin. However on the other hand any TBM that hasn't accept Jesus of the Holy Bible as their Lord and Savior, every day you live in the unpardonable sin; That is blaspheming against the Holy Ghost."



As you can see if a Saved person sins are not covered by the Blood of Christ, then Salvation would be a one time shot. If you lose it according to LDSinc. teachings you can never get it back.

Jesus stated:



Anti-LDS are so blinded by their hate for the LDS church that they resort to making up their own interpretation of scripture if they think it will apply to the LDS people. Here, for example, we see that speaking against Jesus IS forgivable. Obviously LDS people do not speak AGAINST Jesus since our whole faith is about following Him and looking to His atonement for our salvation. However, critics of Mormons will claim that we do deny Jesus or speak against Him. They then claim that because of this LDS people are guilty of the unpardonable sin. This already goes against the clear teachings of Jesus Himself.

Also, if LDS are guilty of committing the unpardonable sin "everyday", then wouldn't it stand to follow that there is already no forgiveness of that sin in this life or the next and are thusly perpetually condemned now? Why, then, do Anti-LDS try to get LDS to see things their way? To change? To accept Jesus the way they do? If LDS have already committed the unforgivable sin, would that change the LDS' fate? If so, then they make Jesus a liar.

Lastly, as believers in Jesus Christ, LDS are Christians, so according to RFH's first statement, it would be impossible for them to commit the unpardonable sin.

Why do Anti-LDS twist scripture and eisegete verses simply to try to attack the LDS? This is dishonest and another reason LDS do not take their enemies seriously.

Here is your answer; Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV)
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subject Him to public disgrace.
All sins of a Saved person are covered, or else we are all doomed.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Here is your answer; Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV)
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subject Him to public disgrace.
All sins of a Saved person are covered, or else we are all doomed.

Wait....

You said "It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin.". Remember?

Now you are showing us a scripture that states it is impossible for a Christian to repent if they fall away!

So not only did you just prove that the only people that can commit the unpardonable sin HAVE to be those who were Christians, you also just destroyed the whole theology of the "Once-Saved-Always-Saved".

Good ***!!

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Who said that the unpardonable sin was to "deny Christ"?

...........

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

The blood of Christ covers all sins but one, the rejection of Him as Lord and Savior.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Wait....

You said "It is impossible for a Christian to commit the unpardonable sin.". Remember?

Now you are showing us a scripture that states it is impossible for a Christian to repent if they fall away!

So not only did you just prove that the only people that can commit the unpardonable sin HAVE to be those who were Christians, you also just destroyed the whole theology of the "Once-Saved-Always-Saved".

Good ***!!

Well, I guess you're trying to understand it anyways. Never in the verse does it say If a believer, christian, born againder falls away. The verse says if a person who has Tasted. Now what does that mean? It means anyone who begins down the road to becoming a followers of Christ, and even if they were baptized and still held out a total transformation as in when Jesus told Nicodemus; Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Born again meaning born of the Spirit! ie the Holy Ghost. Thus you see if one rejected the Holy Ghost, that is the blaspheming against Him, and thus is unforgiving.
However, if a person is a born againder he or she can not reject that which has accepted them, or else they must be re-baptised by the Spirit and it can't be done.
Salvation is a one time deal accept it or reject it neither can be undone.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Well, I guess you're trying to understand it anyways. Never in the verse does it say If a believer, christian, born againder falls away.

The sad part is I think you are serious.

The verse speaks to those who ARE believers. If you're telling us that those who have been enlightened, tasted of the Heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, and tasted the goodness of the Word of God are all NON-BELIEVERS in Jesus, then your eisegesis of the Bible is more flawed than I thought!

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance...."

It sure seems clear to all of us LDS that someone who is a believer CAN fall away, at least according to the Bible. But you are forced to read your own interpretation into it in order for it to make sense to the OSAS theology.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

The sad part is I think you are serious.

The verse speaks to those who ARE believers. If you're telling us that those who have been enlightened, tasted of the Heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, and tasted the goodness of the Word of God are all NON-BELIEVERS in Jesus, then your eisegesis of the Bible is more flawed than I thought!

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance...."

It sure seems clear to all of us LDS that someone who is a believer CAN fall away, at least according to the Bible. But you are forced to read your own interpretation into it in order for it to make sense to the OSAS theology.

Just where in all that does it say such people ever believed? IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Just where in all that does it say such people ever believed? IHS jim

The same place it says "Trinity".

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

The sad part is I think you are serious.

The verse speaks to those who ARE believers. If you're telling us that those who have been enlightened, tasted of the Heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, and tasted the goodness of the Word of God are all NON-BELIEVERS in Jesus, then your eisegesis of the Bible is more flawed than I thought!

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance...."

It sure seems clear to all of us LDS that someone who is a believer CAN fall away, at least according to the Bible. But you are forced to read your own interpretation into it in order for it to make sense to the OSAS theology.

Then YOU can't come back! Your religion is a religion of no hope.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Then YOU can't come back! Your religion is a religion of no hope.

I don't know what what point you are trying to make.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

I don't know what what point you are trying to make.

How can a believer come back if the word of God says it would be impossible?
Thus, you have no hope?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

How can a believer come back if the word of God says it would be impossible?
Thus, you have no hope?

Wrong.

LDS don't believe that a believer who leaves the church cannot come back. Like many mainstream Christians, LDS believe that someone who leaves the fold and has a desire to return does not have the spirit in them that cons***utes committing the unforgivable sin. Only those who have had a sure witness of of the Holy Ghost and having a perfect knowledge of who the Holy Ghost is, and to still deny him or his power would fit that category.

Thus, LDS have great hope!

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Wrong.

LDS don't believe that a believer who leaves the church cannot come back. Like many mainstream Christians, LDS believe that someone who leaves the fold and has a desire to return does not have the spirit in them that cons***utes committing the unforgivable sin. Only those who have had a sure witness of of the Holy Ghost and having a perfect knowledge of who the Holy Ghost is, and to still deny him or his power would fit that category.

Thus, LDS have great hope!

So you are saying a TBM can't lose his Exaltation?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

So you are saying a TBM can't lose his Exaltation?

Show me where I said that.

All my words are in print and all have access to them.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Show me where I said that.

All my words are in print and all have access to them.

You believe a TBM can lose his Exaltation and then get it back?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

The same place it says "Trinity".

Ok, lets deal with the concept. Just where is the concept that a person must be a believer in order to become a son of perdition? I can again show you the concept for the trinity in the Bible.. in Mark 12:29 Jesus quotes Moses saying that the Lord is one. That being the truth and Jesus saying that He had to ascend to His God and our God, that Jesus is called the Word who is God, and that Peter called the Holy Spirit God in Acts. 5:3-4; there must be something to a doctrine that explains how these three Persons can still be one God.. That is all the doctrine of the trinity does. Now please explain why a person must be a special believer to be a son of perdition in the light of Rev 20:15.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

You believe a TBM can lose his Exaltation and then get it back?

Show me where I said that.

All my words are in print and all have access to them.

You need to understand the LDS doctrine of salvation/ exaltation/ falling from grace/ etc. in order to understand the idea of the unpardonable sin in LDS context.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Show me where I said that.

All my words are in print and all have access to them.

So, once you are SAVED, you is Saved and can't lose it?

[theway]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

So, once you are SAVED, you is Saved and can't lose it?

No.... Only in the world of Calvinist heresies is there such a thing as the unbiblical Salvation Security as you know it.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by theway

No.... Only in the world of Calvinist heresies is there such a thing as the unbiblical Salvation Security as you know it.

Now I am confused, so you can lose your exaltation and regain it. Just for the record is that correct?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Now I am confused,

Because you are trying to understand what LDS believe based on concepts the LDS don't believe - like theway has pointed out.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Because you are trying to understand what LDS believe based on concepts the LDS don't believe - like theway has pointed out.

If you can a yes or no answer will do. Can a TBM lose their exaltation once that have it?