The worst failing of Mormonsim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

We can say that God does have a body of Flesh and Bone in the Person of Jesus.. So at the fave time we must agree that Jesus is the invisible God who is spirit, a spirit that has not flesh and bone.. I am fine with that too.. God isn't three separate beings, He is One Lord. Everything that the Father and Holy Spirit is so is Christ..

Ok is God in hell? OF COURSE!! Jesus took my sin and paid the FULL penalty for it.. That means He will eternally be in Hell.. Not only is He there to pay my debt, but He created the place.. In doing that His eternal omnipresent nature make it impossible not to be there.. So you can limit God to fit your preconceived anti Bible notion of what He is or you can read His word and see that He is as I said before. That God is to Big too be constrained even in the feebly mind of men.. IHS jim

Uhhhhhhhh..........

Yeah, what 'theway" said.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

Well, I think I'm done listening to this nonsense (or more like this No-Sense).
This was so *****ic, I don't know where I would start.

James I love you man, but run from this heresy as fast as you can.

I should run from the idea that God is the creator of all things whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers. I will not do so for in doing that I deny who my God is..

I know that the finally judgment of God on sin will be to cast unrepentant sinners into the Lake of Fire eternally.. God's word tell me that, Jesus was made to be sin for me. That means He who knew no sin was condemned to the judgment for sin in my place. That is the Good News the Gospel of Jesus Christ and I will not run from it. I will morn because I was the cause of that judgment, and I will stand amazed at His grace and willingness to give His all for my salvation.. Maybe you see it as I D I O T I C because the Gospel of Christ is foolishness to those that are perishing.. I will continue to pray for you and all the LDS that you might be saved.. That was Paul's prayer to God for His people Israel. That is my prayer for my people the LDS.. IHS jim

[theway]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I know that the finally judgment of God on sin will be to cast unrepentant sinners into the Lake of Fire eternally..

LOL....
What does that matter?
After all, according to you, Jesus will be there too.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

LOL....
What does that matter?
After all, according to you, Jesus will be there too.

Will be? When did I said he will be.. He is!!!! Tell me what it matters to those that have been there for a few thousand years.. Without that understanding I figured you would have such a "So what" att itude.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

LOL.....
So says a follower of "The Great Mystery" better known as the Trinity doctrine.

As it can be clearly seen in the Bible.. IHS jim

[theway]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Maybe you see it as I D I O T I C because the Gospel of Christ is foolishness to those that are perishing..

And maybe James... things are seen as I D I O T I C and foolish, because they "ARE" I D I O T I C and foolish.

Originally Posted by James Banta

I will continue to pray for you and all the LDS that you might be saved.. That was Paul's prayer to God for His people Israel. That is my prayer for my people the LDS.. IHS jim

Another paradox of AntiMormon theology.
According to you guys, "God does it all" and the actions of man whether they be sinners or saved will have no effect on what God does.
Therefore your prayers are useless if I am not already one of the predestined to be Saved. In fact, if I am not one of the predestined, then you are praying for an outcome different than God's Will... Making you the same as Satan.

If you really believed what you preached, then the only thing you can say would be "Thy Will be done" and stop trying to change things, pray for people, try to get them out of cults, or preach anything, for fear of going against his Will.

[theway]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Will be? When did I said he will be.. He is!!!! Tell me what it matters to those that have been there for a few thousand years.. Without that understanding I figured you would have such a "So what" att itude.. IHS jim

Your theory that God is outside time means that, will be, is now, and was, are all legitimate responses.
And this is exactly why you made up these theories, it's an attempt by you to try and reconcile all the contradictions and paradoxes that your theology creates. However the only thing which you have actually created, are more paradoxes and contradictions.

Given that, I can say "So What" to anything you say, because your made up beliefs have made the opposite position to everything you say, all true at the same time.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by theway

Your theory that God is outside time means that, will be, is now, and was, are all legitimate responses.
And this is exactly why you made up these theories, it's an attempt by you to try and reconcile all the contradictions and paradoxes that your theology creates. However the only thing which you have actually created, are more paradoxes and contradictions.

Given that, I can say "So What" to anything you say, because your made up beliefs have made the opposite position to everything you say, all true at the same time.

Yep.

And if God and Jesus are also in Hell, then that would really mean Hell is also a Heaven.

So according to the gospel of James Banta, there really is no Hell at all and no need for LDS to change since God will be everywhere we go anyway.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Sir

Yep.

And if God and Jesus are also in Hell, then that would really mean Hell is also a Heaven.

So according to the gospel of James Banta, there really is no Hell at all and no need for LDS to change since God will be everywhere we go anyway.

Or like I said it makes the opposite true, that it doesn't matter whether you go to Heaven or Hell because you will be with your Savior and God either way.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

Or like I said it makes the opposite true, that it doesn't matter whether you go to Heaven or Hell because you will be with your Savior and God either way.

Just because God is omnipresent doesn't mean He will be with the sinner. They have rejected Him.But, either He is the God described in the Bible or He isn't.. Mormonism insists that He isn't.. Therefore mormonism has created their own god and as we all can see will not submit to righteousness, or power of the Biblical God.. IHS jim

[theway]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Just because God is omnipresent doesn't mean He will be with the sinner. They have rejected Him.But, either He is the God described in the Bible or He isn't.. Mormonism insists that He isn't.. Therefore mormonism has created their own god and as we all can see will not submit to righteousness, or power of the Biblical God.. IHS jim

LOL.... So Jesus (who has become sin) will be in Hell, but he will not ***ociate with the sinners (who are merely sinners)

But wait... Didn't you also say that God was everywhere? And now you say He will not be in our segregated part of Hell?

LOL... Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by theway

LOL.... So Jesus (who has become sin) will be in Hell, but he will not ***ociate with the sinners (who are merely sinners)

But wait... Didn't you also say that God was everywhere? And now you say He will not be in our segregated part of Hell?

LOL... Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

It's what happens when people take certain Bible verses too literally--especially verses that were obviously intended to be metaphors.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

LOL.... So Jesus (who has become sin) will be in Hell, but he will not ***ociate with the sinners (who are merely sinners)

But wait... Didn't you also say that God was everywhere? And now you say He will not be in our segregated part of Hell?

LOL... Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

Can there be fellowship with anyone or anything while all that is experienced is weeping and gnashing of teeth? hell is private for each and every sinner condemned to it's confines.. I don't make this stuff up like the LDS make up their weird doctrines. Mine is reported in Jude 6; Matt 8:12; Matt 13:42, 50; and Matt 25:30..

I have shown you that God MUST punish sin, That Jesus became sin in the place of the believing sinner. God wrath then fell on Him.. How long does that punishment endure? ETERNALLY (Rev 20:11).. But you can believe in the words of a man over the word of God, I am sure that God will understand as you stand before His Great White Throne to be judged (NOT).. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Can there be fellowship with anyone or anything while all that is experienced is weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Sure! Don't worry, Jim, those of us who go to heaven will be allowed to visit you antis, and fellowship with you occasionally. We will bring Kleenex for the weeping, and we will bring Sensodyne for your sore teeth.

hell is private for each and every sinner condemned to it's confines.. I don't make this stuff up like the LDS make up their weird doctrines.

If you aren't the one making up your weird doctrines, then who is making them up for you?

Mine is reported in Jude 6; Matt 8:12; Matt 13:42, 50; and Matt 25:30..

"6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day."

12 "But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

42 "They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

30 "And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

No "private" mentioned in any of those, Jim. So yep--you made that up.

... Jesus became sin in the place of the believing sinner.

What did Jesus do for the NON-believing sinner, Jim? Nothing? You're making up stuff again.

But you can believe in the words of a man over the word of God,

No thanks. I don't want to believe in your words.

I am sure that God will understand as you stand before His Great White Throne to be judged (NOT)..

So you feel you can speak for God regarding what He will and won't understand? Wow.
You don't think God is all-understanding?

You're gonna need that Kleenex and Sensodyne.....

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;149458]Sure! Don't worry, Jim, those of us who go to heaven will be allowed to visit you antis, and fellowship with you occasionally. We will bring Kleenex for the weeping, and we will bring Sensodyne for your sore teeth.

And your authority for this is what the inerrant "Because I said so"?

If you aren't the one making up your weird doctrines, then who is making them up for you?

You deny that the Bible teaches that those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire? Just who is there to comfort them.. Looke at te parable of the Rich man and Lazerth and see what is taught there about the rich man in the flame.. And that is before the judgement. The Lake of Fire (post judgment) is much worse.

"6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day."

12 "But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

42 "They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

30 "And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

No "private" mentioned in any of those, Jim. So yep--you made that up.

Does it sound like these will be in the mood for fellowship? Have you ever been really sick? I have.. I had no desire for anyone to visit me until I felt better. And you believe that a person in the worst pain a person has ever felt, a agony that is only described as a Lake of Fire, will have fellowship one with another or even visits from others whose names were in the Book of Life? And you say I made up what I am saying.. WOW...

What did Jesus do for the NON-believing sinner, Jim? Nothing? You're making up stuff again.

That gets into points of Calvinism.. Calvinist believe that God did nothing for them.. I disagree with Calvinism on that point. I believe the Bible where we are taught that Jesus died once for ALL (Hebrews 9:28).. but not all are willing to receive Him by faith and became his children. It is by grace accessed through Faith in Jesus that allows our names to be in the Lamb's book of life.. Better reread my statement I said nothing about unbelievers..

No thanks. I don't want to believe in your words.

I was thinking more the words of Smith over the Bible.. Those you seem to accept quite easily..

So you feel you can speak for God regarding what He will and won't understand? Wow.
You don't think God is all-understanding?

See I make many errors in what I write here. Sometimes no matter how many time I proof read it it always says what I want it to say instead of what it says. It should read:

I am sure that God will understand and have sympathy for your excuses as you stand before His Great White Throne to be judged (NOT)..

God will have no mind that that time for nonsense.. I hope that is clearer to you even if you don't agree..

You're gonna need that Kleenex and Sensodyne.

I am actually going to ask for His grace of not having to watch the judgment of the dead.. IHS jim

[neverending]

It has been a very long time since I was last here. As for your comment I must say, how do you know for certain that you will go to heaven? And snide comments won't impress anyone, these are subjects that should be taken seriously for we are speaking of people's eternal destiny, not just something that will happen for a few days or months or years but eternity!

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

It has been a very long time since I was last here. As for your comment I must say, how do you know for certain that you will go to heaven? And snide comments won't impress anyone, these are subjects that should be taken seriously for we are speaking of people's eternal destiny, not just something that will happen for a few days or months or years but eternity!

I see you got the call.

???

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

You deny that the Bible teaches that those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire?

I don't deny that.

Just who is there to comfort them..

The other people who were sent there, presumably.

Looke at te parable of the Rich man and Lazerth and see what is taught there about the rich man in the flame.. And that is before the judgement. The Lake of Fire (post judgment) is much worse.

That doesn't mean that each person who goes there will be alone.

Does it sound like these will be in the mood for fellowship?

Prisoners often desire fellowship. But that is not relevant, because the issue is whether those imprisoned in hell will be in solitary confinement or not. You say yes, I say the answer is unknown to us.

Have you ever been really sick?

Yes.

I have.. I had no desire for anyone to visit me until I felt better.

In my case, the sicker I got, the more I wanted someone to be with me.

And you believe that a person in the worst pain a person has ever felt, a agony that is only described as a Lake of Fire, will have fellowship one with another or even visits from others whose names were in the Book of Life? And you say I made up what I am saying.. WOW...

Yes, I think you made it up. It may be correct, but it's extrabiblical.

That gets into points of Calvinism.. Calvinist believe that God did nothing for them.. I disagree with Calvinism on that point.

That is good to know. I am glad you reject that part of Calvinism.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

I see you got the call.

???

Sir,
Today being Thanksgiving, I do sincerely wish you and all your loved ones a very special day. May it bring many wonderful memories to one and all. As you sit down with your family may you pray and thank the Lord for His many blessings He has so graciously given to you. There are many blessings we take for granted but today thank God for each one. Our lives could be so different as I think of those in the Phillipines who have lost loved ones and their homes and have nothing today. For now we live in a free country where we can travel where we want, can say what we want but that could end at anytime, all at the hands of a President who's only desire is to bring down this great country. So today, pray for this country for she is in desperate need of God's help as so many are turning their backs on Him. I am sure you can see how corrupt our government has become.
Ok, as for your remark, "see you got the call" I never said any such thing, that is you. I came back for one purpose, to defend my dear husband from your cruel and thoughtless remarks! We've been married now for 42 years and I've known James since I was 14. We grew up together, have weathered many hardships but yet, we are still together and still have love for one another. FYI, but I am sure you could care less, James is not a well man. He almost died twice in 2008 and I lived on pins and needles everyday for 9 months as I watched him brave surgeries and struggled to recover from a bowel rupture and a major car accident. He was left with permanent injuries from that accident and lives with pain everyday. He needs a cane to walk since he has nerve damage in his foot. Then after all that, the next year, he began having shortness of breath and was diagnosed with congestive heart failure. Each day for me is a gift for I awake each morning wondering if I will find my dear husband alive. I shouldn't be fearful of death but I am, only because I need him for we have no family that lives here, they are a thousand miles away. We have no siblings, no parents, no aunts or uncles, we only have each other. So life goes on for us and today, I am so very grateful to God for his blessings that he has poured out on us this year. I have witnessed answers to prayers this year and it is humbling. God is always there, He has lifted me up when I never thought I could stand on my own. I owe Him everything. So Sir, your snotty, arrogant demeanor is not impressive and it certainly isn't becoming to someone who claims to believe in the, "Only True Church." It is due to members like you who caused me to question Mormonism. As I sit with James later today to have our Thanksgiving meal, I will silently think of you and thank God for you and others like you for I would be among the Walking Dead had I not found Him and learned the truth and accepted Him into my heart. It is my wish for you too and something I will pray for daily. God has a plan for all of us and if it is His will that you come to Him, it will happen.
Enjoy your day today. Be well.

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;149515]I don't deny that.

Then you believe it? What happened to the telestial kingdom? Are not those ***igned there the persons who are thrust down to hell? (D&C 76:84) And yet Smith has been quoted as saying that if we could see it's glory we would willing die to gain it?

The other people who were sent there, presumably.

How can that be since these are in just as much misery as anyone else. A suffering unknown to mortal men.. Immersed in a Lake of Fire that can't be quenched and yet the comp***ion of death is denied them. And these who have rejected Jesus and his mercy will in their discernible pain minister to others as they are cursing God?

That doesn't mean that each person who goes there will be alone.

Each will have to suffer their own torment. Each will be so consumed by their own eternal pains they will have no thought to the other.. Sorry but under that level of torture no one as a thought for others.. This has been proven in torture. One of the most common results of torture is social impairment (The Psychology of Torture, Stanford University, 2006). This ministration you call for by others in torture is not possible.. Each person will be quite alone..

Prisoners often desire fellowship. But that is not relevant, because the issue is whether those imprisoned in hell will be in solitary confinement or not. You say yes, I say the answer is unknown to us.

This isn't just being held prisoner. This is being tormented day and night is a pain we in mortality can't understand.. That means each cast into that Lake suffers their own hell in private.. there will not be the conscience ability to reach out to others.. I have shown that there is social impairment and that is after torture. How is there any social interaction during the torture? And in the Lake of fire the torture in continuous. Sorry there there is no social interaction at all.. All those who have rejected Christ will suffer eternally in that flame..

Yes.

Did you want to get up and serve others at that time? No, all you wanted to do is suffer alone.. And that was nothing compared to being immersed in fire eternally.

In my case, the sicker I got, the more I wanted someone to be with me.

That isn't the question.. Did you want to rise from your bed and minister to others? How could you you were too sick.. Someone just as sick as you could be laying not 5 feet away and you would not have ministered to them..

Yes, I think you made it up. It may be correct, but it's extrabiblical.

What part is extrabiblical? The idea that there is pain in being cast into God's judgment described as a lake of fire? Maybe it's the idea that no one will willingly enter God's judgment to minister to them? Where in the Bible is it taught that such will be the case? It isn't I that brings an extrabiblical doctrine to the world about the wonderful glories of hell.. That is only found in mormonism and is entirely extrabiblical. It is contained only in the wild imagination of a man, Joseph Smith, not the Holy Bible..

That is good to know. I am glad you reject that part of Calvinism.

Yes, the Bible teaches Jesus died for the sin of all men, not just those who come to Him in repentance. The unforgivable sin is the rejection of His offer of life through His sacrifice.. See it isn't just those that have had knowledge and rejected it. It is also those who reject His sacrifice thinking that when life is over it's over, or those that believe they can do the *** of obtaining their own salvation.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Jesus describes the importance of knowing the only true God as being so important that it is Life eternal:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Without knowing Him in every way He has revealed Himself to us we can have no eternal life.. Any revelation of Him must agree with all He has taught us about Himself in His word or we have invented a God made up in the heart of flesh.

He tells us that He is One Lord.. If anyone teaches that God is three they disagree with His revelation. He tells us that He has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting. Of anyone teaches that they know how God became God, they again teach the message of a deceitful heart. The Lord Jesus taught us that God is Spirit, and that a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as it was obvious He had. The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul teaches is that God is invisible. Anyone that teaches that God is a being of flesh and bone again teaches from their own understanding and will not submit to the righteousness of God.

Mormonism teaches all those errors and yet tries to teach the world that they are the most Bible believing people of all Christ believing people.. Maybe they need to change their AofF to reflect how they really believe the Bible. Not even as far as it is translated correctly but only as far as they can force the square peg of mormonism into the clearly round opening of the Bible.. IHS jim

Just as Paul warned, these followers of Joe Smith have another "jesus," and "another gospel and spirit." It's sad, but prophecy is thus fulfilled!

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Jesus describes the importance of knowing the only true God as being so important that it is Life eternal:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Without knowing Him in every way He has revealed Himself to us we can have no eternal life.. Any revelation of Him must agree with all He has taught us about Himself in His word or we have invented a God made up in the heart of flesh.

He tells us that He is One Lord.. If anyone teaches that God is three they disagree with His revelation. He tells us that He has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting. Of anyone teaches that they know how God became God, they again teach the message of a deceitful heart. The Lord Jesus taught us that God is Spirit, and that a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as it was obvious He had. The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul teaches is that God is invisible. Anyone that teaches that God is a being of flesh and bone again teaches from their own understanding and will not submit to the righteousness of God.

Mormonism teaches all those errors and yet tries to teach the world that they are the most Bible believing people of all Christ believing people.. Maybe they need to change their AofF to reflect how they really believe the Bible. Not even as far as it is translated correctly but only as far as they can force the square peg of mormonism into the clearly round opening of the Bible.. IHS jim

You know, Jim, I've known atheists with more integrity than Mormons.