The worst failing of Mormonsim

[James Banta]

Jesus describes the importance of knowing the only true God as being so important that it is Life eternal:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Without knowing Him in every way He has revealed Himself to us we can have no eternal life.. Any revelation of Him must agree with all He has taught us about Himself in His word or we have invented a God made up in the heart of flesh.

He tells us that He is One Lord.. If anyone teaches that God is three they disagree with His revelation. He tells us that He has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting. Of anyone teaches that they know how God became God, they again teach the message of a deceitful heart. The Lord Jesus taught us that God is Spirit, and that a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as it was obvious He had. The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul teaches is that God is invisible. Anyone that teaches that God is a being of flesh and bone again teaches from their own understanding and will not submit to the righteousness of God.

Mormonism teaches all those errors and yet tries to teach the world that they are the most Bible believing people of all Christ believing people.. Maybe they need to change their AofF to reflect how they really believe the Bible. Not even as far as it is translated correctly but only as far as they can force the square peg of mormonism into the clearly round opening of the Bible.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Jesus describes the importance of knowing the only true God as being so important that it is Life eternal:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Without knowing Him in every way He has revealed Himself to us we can have no eternal life.. IHS jim

Well, that sure ****s a hole in the Faith Aloners' theology!!!

"No, I'm sorry. You aren't saved by grace through faith. You are only saved based on your knowledge of the only true God, and Jesus Christ, who sent Him."

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Well, that sure ****s a hole in the Faith Aloners' theology!!!

"No, I'm sorry. You aren't saved by grace through faith. You are only saved based on your knowledge of the only true God, and Jesus Christ, who sent Him."

What the p***age teaches us is that it is only in knowing the only true God that eternal life can be found. These Persons can only be know by faith. That reaffirms that it is by Grace through faith and not of WORKS where salvation can be obtained.

Why do you make it a practice to try to set p***ages of scripture against each other instead of finding how they complement each other? You saw a false meaning in the p***age I quoted believing that it denied another p***age of scripture, WHY? All I see is so you can cling to a man invented teaching that the Bible is flawed and untrustworthy. If you would come instead from the concept that the Bible is all God's truth, then you would start to see the truth, Until you come to that realization you will remain lost on that spiritually deadly wide easy road.. iHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What the p***age teaches us is that it is only in knowing the only true God that eternal life can be found. These Persons can only be know by faith. That reaffirms that it is by Grace through faith and not of WORKS where salvation can be obtained.

So your first post only talks about knowing God. Then when challenged on it you then say that one can only know God through faith. Well, I can then add that only those who have works have true and living faith. So, if you link those together, one can say that they must have works to know God.

Also, in your first post you mentioned that Jesus says God is Spirit. What you left out is that he also says that we must worship Him in spirit and truth. Now, if we take the interpretation that Jesus is saying that God is only Spirit, then we should also take it that we must worship Him in only spirit. How can one do that in this life? One must shed their body to worship Him in only spirit. How can we do that?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Well, that sure ****s a hole in the Faith Aloners' theology!!!

"No, I'm sorry. You aren't saved by grace through faith. You are only saved based on your knowledge of the only true God, and Jesus Christ, who sent Him."

One must know both Old Testament and New to fully understand the meaning of Grace. Remember Grace does what the Law could not.
Oh, and another thought. If The God of the Holy Bible is the only True God does that make His grandfather a false god?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Oh, and another thought. If The God of the Holy Bible is the only True God does that make His grandfather a false god?

Another thought:

The verse says "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate en***y? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

[James Banta]

[Snow Patrol;149294]So your first post only talks about knowing God. Then when challenged on it you then say that one can only know God through faith. Well, I can then add that only those who have works have true and living faith. So, if you link those together, one can say that they must have works to know God.

And what does Jesus say is the work of God?

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

As for James.. I have been through that deeply over the past few days as I held up the lack of charitable giving from the LDS church.. The Word James points to are clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, and caring for the needs of the orphan. It should be enough for you for me to tell you that I do those things.. My reserved the details of my giving for Jesus and Him alone.. You have seen in my posts the agencies I support listed as examples of the percent of their income that is used to support the needy.. I will also tell you that giving is a love offering not a mere ***he.. By using one of the agencies I have listed in that thread my offering is magnified in their purchasing power. I don't like discussing my giving. I agree with Jesus that my left hand should know what my right hand is doing.. let this be the last time we have to discuss me personally in relation to James 2.. I see James 2 being kept by the Church not as a way to gain faith, not even as an example to the world that they have faith. What it is, is a response to the love Jesus have offered us.. We love Him and his little ones because He LOVED US FIRST.

Also, in your first post you mentioned that Jesus says God is Spirit. What you left out is that he also says that we must worship Him in spirit and truth. Now, if we take the interpretation that Jesus is saying that God is only Spirit, then we should also take it that we must worship Him in only spirit. How can one do that in this life? One must shed their body to worship Him in only spirit. How can we do that?

God is Spirit.. Why would Jesus make a point about saying that if He were a person of flesh and bone as tangible as man? Would he have told us that God is a tangible God/Man instead of saying that He is Spirit? But Jesus makes it clear that God is Spirit. Then later He tells us that a spirit has not a body of flesh and bone. That makes the nature of the invisible God (Yes, a God that isn't seen, a God that CAN'T be seen by eyes of mere flesh). Still you are right, we are to worship Him in spirit and truth.. Tell me how can I become truth? I can tell the truth, I can understand truth, but in my nature, God says that my heart (my very being) is deceitful, and more than that, it is deceitful above ALL things. But I am still commanded by the Lord to worship God in truth.. So I am to worship in truth and I am not truth (Only Jesus is the Truth) then not being a person of only spirit should disqualify me from worshiping God in spirit. I don't have to physically worship, offering sacrifice, or doing some ceremony to worship Him.. I can recognize His Godhood, His Glory, and Majesty. I can praise Him for who He is and all He has done.. I can hold Him dearer to me than anything I have ever known and that would be worshiping Him in spirit.. You may stop adding to the scripture now.. I can worship Him in many ways (prayer, giving, ***embling with others who believe Him) and not ONLY one way. Still I am called to worship Him in Spirit, and in Truth, for that is how he desires me to worship Him.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What the p***age teaches us is that it is only in knowing the only true God that eternal life can be found. These Persons can only be know by faith. That reaffirms that it is by Grace through faith and not of WORKS where salvation can be obtained.

But faith isn't having a knowledge of things. Faith is the substance of theings "hoped" for.

Why do you make it a practice to try to set p***ages of scripture against each other instead of finding how they complement each other? You saw a false meaning in the p***age I quoted believing that it denied another p***age of scripture, WHY? All I see is so you can cling to a man invented teaching that the Bible is flawed and untrustworthy. If you would come instead from the concept that the Bible is all God's truth, then you would start to see the truth, Until you come to that realization you will remain lost on that spiritually deadly wide easy road.. iHS jim

All I see is the typical whining rant of James when his posts get debated and questioned, and when people see things different than you, you go off on the "your lost and blind and spiritually dead" mantra.

Boring.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Another thought:

The verse says "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate en***y? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

Well, you could either say Jesus Christ is one member of the Godhead ie Trinity, or else He is a false god, take your pick.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Another thought:

The verse says "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate en***y? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

You always harp about how false the doctine of trinity is but you can argue that the Father is the only true God, now can you it's right there in that scripture.. But the LDS call Jesus a God as well.. If the Father is the only true God but Jesus is a separate God then He must be a false God. The ONLY way Jesus can be God, the true God, is if He is one Being with the other Persons that are called God in the Scripture.. ONLY in the doctrine of the Trinity can the Father, Holy Spirit, and Jesus be the one true God. No, mormonism in this p***age denies the deity of the Lord Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.. That is counter to the teachings of Joseph Smith as he said:

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three const i tute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it! (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473)

Who will you believe God (Jesus), or a mere man (Smith).. If Smith and God then you are admitting that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are false Gods according to the verse "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.".. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Well, you could either say Jesus Christ is one member of the Godhead ie Trinity, or else He is a false god, take your pick.

You didn't address my post.

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate ent.ity? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

You didn't address my post.

Why does the verse state the only true God, and then add "AND" Jesus Christ as a seperate ent.ity? In this verse, the "only true God" is referring only to the Father.

They are seperate persons, that we can agree on, God The Father is the only True God, but if we leave it there then as it has been said before.(Houston we have a problem).
However in other verse in the Holy Bible we find that The Father and the Son are one, one what do you ask?
Isaiah 44.6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God
Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
As we find here Jesus and God are both the First and the Last, and beside me there is no God.
We Christians didn't just make up the Trinity out of thin air. We Had no choice in the matter.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

They are seperate persons, that we can agree on, God The Father is the only True God, but if we leave it there then as it has been said before.(Houston we have a problem).
However in other verse in the Holy Bible we find that The Father and the Son are one, one what do you ask?
Isaiah 44.6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God
Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
As we find here Jesus and God are both the First and the Last, and beside me there is no God.
We Christians didn't just make up the Trinity out of thin air. We Had no choice in the matter.

Who is Jesus' God?

[James Banta]

[Sir;149298]But faith isn't having a knowledge of things. Faith is the substance of theings "hoped" for.

Biblical.. I have no objection.. In no way did I ever say anything that disagrees with that statement..

All I see is the typical whining rant of James when his posts get debated and questioned, and when people see things different than you, you go off on the "your lost and blind and spiritually dead" mantra.

Boring.

And you pray that your missionaries are lead to the "honest" of heart do you not? Just what is that saying about those of us that know the real foundation of mormonism? About the occultic spiritualism in the gl*** looking, the womanizing of polygamy, and the murder of MMM.. I am honest in quoting the word of God and what do you say about lesson direct from God's word "BORING".. You call it a Mantra, I call it a warning from God Himself (Rev 20:15).. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Who is Jesus' God?

His flesh? The same as ours.. The one true God of heaven and earth the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Who is Jesus' God?

Lets see what Jesus had to say about it. Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Taking into account there is only one God Form, Jesus can only be God or else the Holy Bible lied, and I do not believe it does. Thus Jesus is God, God The Father is God and the Holy Ghost is God. Three Persons, one Godhead.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

His flesh? The same as ours.. The one true God of heaven and earth the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.. IHS jim

Jesus is his own God?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Lets see what Jesus had to say about it. Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Taking into account there is only one God Form, Jesus can only be God or else the Holy Bible lied, and I do not believe it does. Thus Jesus is God, God The Father is God and the Holy Ghost is God. Three Persons, one Godhead.

Jesus didn't say that.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Jesus didn't say that.

Okay, then who thought it was not robbery to be equal with God?

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Okay, then who thought it was not robbery to be equal with God?

Being equal with something requires two things. How can something be equal to God if He is God? I'm not equal to myself. It just doesn't make sense.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Being equal with something requires two things. How can something be equal to God if He is God? I'm not equal to myself. It just doesn't make sense.

Well, I am glad to say, no one is equal to me. However you will agree if you are equal to someone it means you are not lower or higher, but equal. John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Well, I am glad to say, no one is equal to me. However you will agree if you are equal to someone it means you are not lower or higher, but equal. John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God

Hey we agree.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Hey we agree.

That's no fun!

[Sir]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Okay, then who thought it was not robbery to be equal with God?

Jesus.

But Jesus didn't say that. Paul did.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Sir

Jesus.

But Jesus didn't say that. Paul did.

Okay, so was Paul correct in his statement or not?