Orwellian Court of Love - Mormon Gestapo!

[theway]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Okay, lets go down the history of Eugenic. Sir Francis Galton introduced it in the year 1880. Eugenic, meaing (well born).
Check out the relationship between Joseph F Smith and eugenic, with an added touch of Polygamy.
Check out the early LDSinc. Idea of the American Indian, and their adoption. Brigham Youngs at***ude towards Blacks, and his treatment of the American Indian. Joseph Smith jr. accepted the genealogy of the Negro curse as the sons of Ham.
The over all question is why did the LDSinc. Change White and delightsome to pure and delightsome?

You are the one who brought up the allegation, but I can not get you to explain what you are talking about, or give an example of the BOM being racist against Blacks.
If you don't plan on answering it, just let me know so that we can stop wasting my time.

I'm going to ask this question again for the forth and final time now....

What does anything in the Book of Mormon have to do with Blacks?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by theway

You are the one who brought up the allegation, but I can not get you to explain what you are talking about, or give an example of the BOM being racist against Blacks.
If you don't plan on answering it, just let me know so that we can stop wasting my time.

I'm going to ask this question again for the forth and final time now....

What does anything in the Book of Mormon have to do with Blacks?

So, the Book of Mormon doesn't equate the fact that the Lamanite's skin turned dark as a result of their sinfulness? How obtuse can you get NOTtheway? Dark skin is equated with sinfulness - and other Mormon "revelations" say blacks are children of Cain, and that their dark skin is the "mark of Cain, and the result of sin and lack of valiance in premortal life. You are simply denying facts to soothe yourself. Get out of the kind of cult that condemns your own family.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, a false prophet would be someone who teaches false principles and those things would lead to unhappiness.

But there are many people who believe in many false principles who are happy. How can that be given what you have said?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But there are many people who believe in many false principles who are happy. How can that be given what you have said?

Actually, that is not true. You do something that is untrue and it leads to unhappiness. So, someone who lies---it will lead to unhappiness. Someone who steals, it will lead to unhappiness.

Any amount of happiness a person has is directly due to the amount of truth they live by. Wickedness never was happiness.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Actually, that is not true. You do something that is untrue and it leads to unhappiness. So, someone who lies---it will lead to unhappiness. Someone who steals, it will lead to unhappiness.

But how do you explain all of the people who follow false teachers/teachings and yet are happy?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But how do you explain all of the people who follow false teachers/teachings and yet are happy?

If they live by some truth, they will find happiness in the truth the are living. Their sins (or false teachings they live by) will bring the unhappiness.

You can tell the degree of truth a person lives by by how happy they are. A person who lies or steals or cheats will experience misery--in this life--eventually. And in my experience, it takes a very short time for this to occur.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

If they live by some truth, they will find happiness in the truth the are living. Their sins (or false teachings they live by) will bring the unhappiness.

You can tell the degree of truth a person lives by by how happy they are.

What you say is false. Lots of people believe in all sorts of lies yet they are happy.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What you say is false. Lots of people believe in all sorts of lies yet they are happy.

No, people who sin are not happy. I am sure you have seen this as well in your life. They may experience some type of pleasure for a while, but sins catch up with people. For example, liars. It doesn't take too long before no one wants to do business with them or believe what they are saying. They begin to experience misery.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No, people who sin are not happy.

Sure they are happy--especially those who think that they are following truth even though it is a lie.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No, people who sin are not happy.

What is sin to you is not sin to others. Right? Since they have differing beliefs.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Sure they are happy--especially those who think that they are following truth even though it is a lie.

No, you just think that because you have a faulty belief system. Sin takes us away from God and God is all that is good. As a result, anything that brings us closer to God makes us happy. Anything that takes us away from God makes us less happy.

Those who find happiness are those who live by truth--which all comes from God---whether people recognize it or not. So, someone who does not believe in God, but are honest--will have a measure of happiness for living that truth. Their honesty (a truth which comes from God) will help them to live happier lives. The more truth one has and the more they live by it, the happier they will be still. That is why, in order to truly be happy, one has to understand and accept Jesus Christ as their redeemer--as one of the truths that makes one happy is understanding the ability to repent.

On the other hand, people who state that they believe in God, but do not live by truth, will suffer the misery of their sinful decisions. That is why someone can believe in God, but if they go against the truths they know, they will be unhappy. They will still suffer until they repent and change their wicked ways.

I think the easiest example of this is someone who is addicted to anything. In that case, the flesh takes over and the person, through sin, removes themselves from God. Misery follows.

Show me someone who claims they are happy, but lives a life full of sin and I will show you someone who deep down does not like themselves. I have seen it many times.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No, you just think that because you have a faulty belief system.

So what I personally believe is the basis for the happiness of millions of other people in the world with differing belief systems?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Actually, that is not true. You do something that is untrue and it leads to unhappiness. So, someone who lies---it will lead to unhappiness. Someone who steals, it will lead to unhappiness.

Any amount of happiness a person has is directly due to the amount of truth they live by. Wickedness never was happiness.

Oh, so you believe in Karma?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Apologette

So, the Book of Mormon doesn't equate the fact that the Lamanite's skin turned dark as a result of their sinfulness? How obtuse can you get NOTtheway? Dark skin is equated with sinfulness - and other Mormon "revelations" say blacks are children of Cain, and that their dark skin is the "mark of Cain, and the result of sin and lack of valiance in premortal life. You are simply denying facts to soothe yourself. Get out of the kind of cult that condemns your own family.

I think someone needs to point out to you the obvious...

IT WOULD BE IMPOSIBLE FOR ANYONE IN THE BOOK OF MORMON TO BE TALKING ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE,
This is because NO Black people were in the Americas during the time of the Book of Mormon, so they would not even know what a Black person looked like.

The reference to Black and White in the Book of Mormon is exactly as Joseph Smith said the ****ogy represented....
Pureness and filthiness.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Oh, so you believe in Karma?

The idea that what you reap, so shall you sow? That type of thinking?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

On the other hand, people who state that they believe in God, but do not live by truth, will suffer the misery of their sinful decisions. That is why someone can believe in God, but if they go against the truths they know, they will be unhappy. They will still suffer until they repent and change their wicked ways.

The point that seems to be going right over your head is the fact that those who follow false religions believe that what they are doing IS good by following what their false teachers are teaching. For example LDS feel that they are following their gods yet in reality they are leading sinful lives because they are following after strange gods. In the pursuit of following false gods and false belief systems--many find happiness--BUT they are not following the truth. The same can be said for many false religions all over the world. So this shows the silliness of your argument that "happiness" validates truthfulness. In reality God's word validates truthfulness--something LDS such as yourself seem to have a hard time fully grasping.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The point that seems to be going right over your head is the fact that those who follow false religions believe that what they are doing IS good by following what their false teachers are teaching. For example LDS feel that they are following their gods yet in reality they are leading sinful lives because they are following after strange gods. In the pursuit of following false gods and false belief systems--many find happiness--BUT they are not following the truth. The same can be said for many false religions all over the world. So this shows the silliness of your argument that "happiness" validates truthfulness. In reality God's word validates truthfulness--something LDS such as yourself seem to have a hard time fully grasping.

No, this does not go right over my head because you and I see this differently.

You believe that people have to believe as you believe or you believe that they are going to hell. You then appoint yourself judge and jury to make sure people know this (at least that is how it comes across to me.)

That is very different than the LDS beliefs. We do not use "religion" to determine who will go to heaven or who will go to hell. We believe that God gives to those what he may. He decides. It is like the parable of the talents. Then, he judges them based on what He gave them and what they do with it. So, to me---someone isn't going to go to hell because they don't believe what I do---because I do not know what God or the Spirit has shared with them. What I do believe is that everyone is given the "light of Christ"---or the ability to know the Spirit based on an internal understanding of what is right and wrong. So, a person can know telling the truth is right and lying is wrong, regardless of what religion they believe in.

In the end, all those who are saved will believe in Christ---but not all will have the chance to learn of Christ in this life. So, God allows for them to be taught even in the next life. But ultimately, they will be judged according to what they knew and what they did with it in this life.

This is why we have the scriptures that teach us:


1Pe 3:18-19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

And this one:


1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by theway

I think someone needs to point out to you the obvious...

IT WOULD BE IMPOSIBLE FOR ANYONE IN THE BOOK OF MORMON TO BE TALKING ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE,
This is because NO Black people were in the Americas during the time of the Book of Mormon, so they would not even know what a Black person looked like.

The reference to Black and White in the Book of Mormon is exactly as Joseph Smith said the ****ogy represented....
Pureness and filthiness.

theway, do you still believe what J.Smith taught concerning blacks or dark skinned people and white people? Do you really believe that white people are pure and black or dark skinned people are filthy? Why the need to change the wording in the BoM to, "white and delightsome?" Because it was offensive to those investigating the LDS Church showing the bigotry of it's founder and leaders?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by theway

I think someone needs to point out to you the obvious...

IT WOULD BE IMPOSIBLE FOR ANYONE IN THE BOOK OF MORMON TO BE TALKING ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE,
This is because NO Black people were in the Americas during the time of the Book of Mormon, so they would not even know what a Black person looked like.

The reference to Black and White in the Book of Mormon is exactly as Joseph Smith said the ****ogy represented....
Pureness and filthiness.

You know, you didn't even read what I wrote - I didn't say it was found in the BoM. You should know where it is found, though:

Moses 7:22 ".for the seed of Cain were black and had not place among them."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No, this does not go right over my head because you and I see this differently.

It most certainly is going right over your head because you believe that truth is based on your personal happiness and that those who follow "truth" will be happy. But everyone who follows various false religions feel that what they are doing is following the "truth" even though they are not.

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You believe that people have to believe as you believe or you believe that they are going to hell. You then appoint yourself judge and jury to make sure people know this (at least that is how it comes across to me.)

So your position is that people can follow whatever they want--including following after "strange gods" and still end up in heaven? Really?