Joseph Smith, the Would Be King!

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, Christ was part of the Godhead prior to the earth's creation. I am referring to this scripture:
1Cr 15:27-28 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Clearly, there was a point that "all things" were subdued unto Christ...such as death.

When do you think this happened? Or do you think it was this way from eternity to eternity and that things were never subdued unto him?

Before Abraham "WAS, I AM". So what does this mean? Jesus took this name onto himself and it means, God! This is why people picked up stones to try and stone Jesus for him proclaiming he was God! Now, did God die (Jesus) since you said, "Christ WAS part of the Godhead......." Was is past tense. Jesus "IS" God and he IS part of the Godhead and always has been, always will be and is now! This verse is speaking of the end times when Jesus will be King of this Earth, everything will be put under his feet; when everything has been summed up. I do think you have read something into these scripture verses that aren't really there. Since Jesus is omnipresent, then yes, all things are subdued unto him forever, and ever. It continues for eternity and always will. Was there ever a time when Jesus was not God?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

Before Abraham "WAS, I AM". So what does this mean? Jesus took this name onto himself and it means, God! This is why people picked up stones to try and stone Jesus for him proclaiming he was God! Now, did God die (Jesus) since you said, "Christ WAS part of the Godhead......." Was is past tense. Jesus "IS" God and he IS part of the Godhead and always has been, always will be and is now! This verse is speaking of the end times when Jesus will be King of this Earth, everything will be put under his feet; when everything has been summed up. I do think you have read something into these scripture verses that aren't really there. Since Jesus is omnipresent, then yes, all things are subdued unto him forever, and ever. It continues for eternity and always will. Was there ever a time when Jesus was not God?

You know neverending---just as you have stated that I have convinced you that you never want to look at Mormonism again...you have convinced me that I don't really want to carry on any further discussions with you. I do not put all of Christianity in the same boat, as I have met many I liked. But you I don't really care to talk to any further. Sorry.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You know neverending---just as you have stated that I have convinced you that you never want to look at Mormonism again...you have convinced me that I don't really want to carry on any further discussions with you. I do not put all of Christianity in the same boat, as I have met many I liked. But you I don't really care to talk to any further. Sorry.

The best way to show us that you won't be responding is to not respond. Then again you had to try to make it appear like you were the one being noble.. I have seen both of you speaking out in anger. I think it,s a wonderful idea that you don't respond for the foreseeable future. The two of you don't seem to be able to get along at all. Never ending is p***ionate about her faith just as you seem to be p***ionate about your religion.. IHS. jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Well, in the past Israel has had kings such as Solomon, David, Hezekiah, and Josiah.
In the future, Christ will be the "king of the Jews" but He isn't doing much as their king right now, so it seems that right now they are king-less. They do have a Prime Minister. His name is Benjamin Netanyahu, and he seems to be a good man and a valiant leader and defender of Israel, but he is not the king.

Do you have any other relevant questions that I can answer for you?

Pretty good answer, thank you. However Jesus of the Holy Bible is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, but not president of the LDSinc.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Pretty good answer, thank you.

It's good to see you acknowledging that the claim that I never address doctrinal issues with anything but mocking, was a demonstrably false claim.

However Jesus of the Holy Bible is Lord of Lords and King of Kings

how about "God of gods" ?

but not president of the LDSinc.

Of course Jesus isn't the President of the LDS church. He has appointed Thomas S. Monson to be the man currently holding that position. Jesus is higher up in the hierarchy.

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;150334]how about "God of gods" ?

Yes God (Jesus) is God of gods.. He created all things. Even those we call devils.. All His creation is subject to Him.. That include the devils that were seen as gods to ancient people as well as the imaginations of their own evil hearts that turned to build idols.. Yes YHWH is the God of gods..

Of course Jesus isn't the President of the LDS church. He has appointed Thomas S. Monson to be the man currently holding that position. Jesus is higher up in the hierarchy.

Yes the Jesus of Joseph Smith imagination is the God of mormonism.. A Jesus that became a God after the Father was already God, (See Isaiah 43:10).. A Jesus that was the brother of the being that became Satan, and our own brother as well.. A god that couldn't create even a small stone but only organize matter in to the form he wanted it to take.. You have have your false god.. You can say that it appointed men to speak for him.. I believe that as much as you.. What I disbelieve is that such a being you proscribe the name Jesus to is not the Jesus revealed in the Bible.. He is NOT the mighty God the everlasting Father. He didn't do all the work for our salvation and offer us that blessing though holding faith in Him.. Jesus is the MOST HIGH. Not just higher up in some invented hierarchy.. IHS jim

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You know neverending---just as you have stated that I have convinced you that you never want to look at Mormonism again...you have convinced me that I don't really want to carry on any further discussions with you. I do not put all of Christianity in the same boat, as I have met many I liked. But you I don't really care to talk to any further. Sorry.

We can finally agree on something for I don't care to talk to you any further. Run, hide, ignore the posts I've made, for you never did answer several questions....not unusual for a Mormon when cornered. All I will say to you is this, may you be well and I will pray for you and your salvation, my God's true salvation, not earned but given by His love and grace.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes God (Jesus) is God of gods.. He created all things. Even those we call devils.. All His creation is subject to Him.. That include the devils that were seen as gods to ancient people as well as the imaginations of their own evil hearts that turned to build idols.. Yes YHWH is the God of gods..

I guess, with your definition of "gods"---there are "gods" in heaven:


1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

I agree that there are false gods that the people worshipped. But how do you see this verse of gods "in heaven"???

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

We can finally agree on something for I don't care to talk to you any further. Run, hide, ignore the posts I've made, for you never did answer several questions....not unusual for a Mormon when cornered. All I will say to you is this, may you be well and I will pray for you and your salvation, my God's true salvation, not earned but given by His love and grace.

Going back over the thread, I realized that I missed your posts many times because you often post as a "reply" rather than a "reply with quote"---and I usually look for those who are replying specifically to me. I did not skip your posts on purpose as you suppose. But, with that, I agree...we are better off to agree to disagree and move on with our discussions with others.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Going back over the thread, I realized that I missed your posts many times because you often post as a "reply" rather than a "reply with quote"---and I usually look for those who are replying specifically to me. I did not skip your posts on purpose as you suppose. But, we that, I agree...we are better off to agree to disagree and move on with our discussions with others.

Well, here is the quote feature being used. Tell us, do you think it was godly for Joseph Smith to have himself crowned "king over Israel." And don't try to say that never happened, as your own Mormon-written book, "Rough Stone Rolling" tells us about the Council of 50 and what it did! Joe's scribe stated:

"The organization of the kingdom of God on the 11th March last is one important event. This organization was called the council of fifty or kingdom of God and was ti tled by revelation as follows, 'Verily thus saith the Lord, this is the name by which you shall be called, the kingdom of god and his law, with the keys and power thereof and judgments in the hands of his servants Ahman Christ.' In this council was the plan arranged for supporting president Joseph Smith as a candidate for the presidency of the U.S. Prest. Joseph was the standing chairman of the council and myself the clerk. In this council was also devised the plan of establishing an immigration to Texas and plans laid for the exaltation of a standard and ensign of truths for the nations of the earth. In this council was the plan devised to restore the Ancients to the knowledge of the truth and the restoration of union and peace amongst ourselves. In this council was prest. Joseph chosen as our prophet Priest, & King by Hosannas. In this council was the principles of eternal truths rolled forth to the hearers without reserve and the hearts of the servants of God made to rejoice exceedingly." Jan. 1/45, William Clayton

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Well, here is the quote feature being used. Tell us, do you think it was godly for Joseph Smith to have himself crowned "king over Israel." And don't try to say that never happened, as your own Mormon-written book, "Rough Stone Rolling" tells us about the Council of 50 and what it did!

Apologette---you already know, from previous discussions, that I do not worry about that non-doctrinal, non-revealed stuff. God calls on men to be his prophets and as such, there will always be those things that part of history such as this. Why was Jonah upset he didn't get to see Ninevah burn? Why was Noah naked on the ark? These things do not matter to me.

As I said, this is like trying to determine if a light bulb works by studying the history of Edison. You throw out the light because you see a flaw with how Edison treated Tesla, etc. But, I have revelation in the form of scriptures---whether it be the Bible or the Book of Mormon. I can read them both and then pray about them---this is what the scriptures teach us to do. I can then receive an answer from God, because--yes, he does answer prayers.

So, after I read the scriptures and pray and get an answer, then I act on that answer and I can then see the fruit of this.

I have witnessed over and over again of the truthfulness of the revelations given to Joseph Smith. I have had a witness that he was a prophet of God. I also know that by living by the truths taught, I can see that my life is better and I am happy.

That said, I know you like to dig through our history and find any tidbit that you think can be sensationalized. You want me to stop believing in the light bulb because you think you have shown a flaw with Edison. But I have experienced the light. Sorry.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Well, here is the quote feature being used. Tell us, do you think it was godly for Joseph Smith to have himself crowned "king over Israel."

What you're accusing never happened, if the p***age you cited is supposed to be your support for your claim.

And don't try to say that never happened

Too late! I just said it never happened, based on your "corroboration."

as your own Mormon-written book, "Rough Stone Rolling" tells us about the Council of 50 and what it did! Joe's scribe stated:

"The organization of the kingdom of God on the 11th March last is one important event. This organization was called the council of fifty or kingdom of God and was ti tled by revelation as follows, 'Verily thus saith the Lord, this is the name by which you shall be called, the kingdom of god and his law, with the keys and power thereof and judgments in the hands of his servants Ahman Christ.' In this council was the plan arranged for supporting president Joseph Smith as a candidate for the presidency of the U.S. Prest. Joseph was the standing chairman of the council and myself the clerk. In this council was also devised the plan of establishing an immigration to Texas and plans laid for the exaltation of a standard and ensign of truths for the nations of the earth. In this council was the plan devised to restore the Ancients to the knowledge of the truth and the restoration of union and peace amongst ourselves. In this council was prest. Joseph chosen as our prophet Priest, & King by Hosannas. In this council was the principles of eternal truths rolled forth to the hearers without reserve and the hearts of the servants of God made to rejoice exceedingly." Jan. 1/45, William Clayton

I read that twice, looking for "king of Israel" to magically appear, but it never did.
Should I shake the magic 8-ball again?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You know neverending---just as you have stated that I have convinced you that you never want to look at Mormonism again...you have convinced me that I don't really want to carry on any further discussions with you. I do not put all of Christianity in the same boat, as I have met many I liked. But you I don't really care to talk to any further. Sorry.

I'm sure the ones you "liked" didn't tell you the truth about your cult's beliefs and history. Wake up!