Joseph Smith, the Would Be King!

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But the Mormon jesus is not the one that is taught in the Bible.

Neither is the Evan jesus.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But the Mormon jesus is not the one that is taught in the Bible.

But, clearly to me He is and the Christ you believe in is not. You do not interpret the Bible the same way I do. That you have made clear.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

But, clearly to me He is and the Christ you believe in is not. You do not interpret the Bible the same way I do. That you have made clear.

How can the Biblical Jesus be your Jesus when HE is the King of Israel, and not your false prophet, Joe Smith?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Apologette

How can the Biblical Jesus be your Jesus when HE is the King of Israel, and not your false prophet, Joe Smith?

How can the Evan Jesus be the right one, when you Evans believe you will be judging the tribes of Israel but the Bible Jesus is supposed to rule and judge it?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, I have looked at what you believe and I have compared it to what is taught in the Bible. Sorry, I do not agree with your interpretation of it. In fact, I have seen with my own eyes what happens when you misread the Bible and what you lose. I will give you examples:

1) Misunderstanding the importance of working toward your salvation. Now--does this mean that we "earn" our salvation or that is not Christ's grace that saves us? Absolutely not.

(RFH) Okay, end of story. Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible is our Salvation, and it is by His Grace.
You are trying to have it both ways, His Grace and our works which if it were true it means some end up with more Grace than others. However the Holy Bible doesn't every say that!

Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

(RFH) Why of course we must work out our own Salvation. Kind of puts a dent into the baptism for the dead folk don't it.
Each soul is repsonsible for their own acceptence of Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible as their personal Savior, and we should fear and trembling the All Mighty God, for in Him is everything.
2) Misunderstanding of the eternal nature of marriage and of family. 1Cr 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

(RFH) First off the bat! There is nothing at ALL in the Holy Bible of an eternal family! Your religion is based upon a lie conjured up by the imaginary mind of your dead leader and god Joseph Smith jr. Saddy this is one reason the Gates of Hell will welcome you and your eternal family into Satan's present's.
Your savior is the Devil and his prophet Joseph Smith jr. Get out while you can.

3) The gift of revelation. Because so many churches deny current revelation, they also deny revelation to the individual. They believe only certain types of prayers can be answered and one cannot ask for spiritual direction of what is right or wrong. They teach that one should not trust their "feelings." But to deny our feelings is to deny the essence of who we are. We feel love, joy, peace, guilt--all of these "feelings" are what direct us to what is good and help us understand who God is. Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

(RFH) I totally agree with you about your feelings and thus it will keep you from knowing the Truth of the Holy Bible and The True Savior of the World Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. I for one never trust my feelings over the Word of God, never have and never will. Any revelation I might receive from God must match up with the Holy Bible, and not the imaginary mind of your dear leader Joseph Smith jr.






These are just a few examples. I could go on.

Your examples are what keeps the Christian and the mormon apart and always will, thank you.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Your examples are what keeps the Christian and the mormon apart and always will, thank you.

As long as the Mormons justify the sordid life of Joseph Smith, there can never even be dialogue.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

(RFH) Okay, end of story. Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible is our Salvation, and it is by His Grace.
You are trying to have it both ways, His Grace and our works which if it were true it means some end up with more Grace than others. However the Holy Bible doesn't every say that!

Nope, not end of story---otherwise, you could throw the majority of the NT away.

This is how I see your argument. Christ says "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it."

You would reply to Christ---you can't have it both ways. Truth is, the opposite of the truth is a lie. The opposite of a profound truth is usually another profound truth.

(RFH) Why of course we must work out our own Salvation. Kind of puts a dent into the baptism for the dead folk don't it.

Nope, once again--you see things as one way or another and that it cannot be both. First, you recognize that we must work out our own salvation (as it is right in the scriptures) but then deny it above. But here it is again. If we must work out our own salvation, why would we do baptism for the dead? Because part of our own salvation is to do what we can for others. Doing things for someone else that they cannot do for themselves is a key point of the gospel as is seen with the atonement where Christ did what we could not do for ourselves. Once again, it is a save your life by losing it kind of statement and requires deeper thinking to understand.

(RFH) First off the bat! There is nothing at ALL in the Holy Bible of an eternal family! Your religion is based upon a lie conjured up by the imaginary mind of your dead leader and god Joseph Smith jr. Saddy this is one reason the Gates of Hell will welcome you and your eternal family into Satan's present's.
Your savior is the Devil and his prophet Joseph Smith jr. Get out while you can.

Actually, the whole of the Bible and the main point of it is the eternal family---the main one being the eternal family of God. The second main family is that of Abraham and then the discussion of the Bible becomes the family of Israel. This theme is the main theme of the Bible. Christ's whole mission was to return this family to God and to reunite that which had been separated.

(RFH) I totally agree with you about your feelings and thus it will keep you from knowing the Truth of the Holy Bible and The True Savior of the World Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. I for one never trust my feelings over the Word of God, never have and never will. Any revelation I might receive from God must match up with the Holy Bible, and not the imaginary mind of your dear leader Joseph Smith jr.

Yes, as I said--this is the main difference between your beliefs and mine. I see that the Bible can be interpreted in many ways and that is why there is so much disagreement about what different p***ages mean. Even the Pharisees, though they had the word of God and studied it, missed God himself. That is why I recognize that our Spiritual ability to recognize and be taught truth from God as to how he wants us to understand his scriptures is central to salvation.

Your examples are what keeps the Christian and the mormon apart and always will, thank you.[/QUOTE]

I agree wholeheartedly that you and I do not see things the same way.

[Apologette]

Julie, who is King over Israel? Joseph Smith or Jesus Christ?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Julie, who is King over Israel? Joseph Smith or Jesus Christ?

You mean right now?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

You mean right now?

lol, yeah right now or even in the pasted or future?

[neverending]

WOW, a Mormon who actually admits that we Christians don't interpret the Bible the same as they do. Well, we have seen where their interpretation has taken them. It is leading them straight to the Lake of Fire. Julie, has your Jesus always existed as God or not? Is your god an exalted man, or not? Do you believe that you MUST do good works or not gain salvation? And doing temple work is a work, which I know you are commanded to do by your leaders. And how does baptizing for the dead help anyone? Or doing a dead person's temple work? There are no second chances. ALL your temples are for doing work for dead people, how sad plus it does not follow the temple of the Bible at all! When was the last time an animal was sacrificed in one of your many temples? You continue to ignore me when I said, "Jesus never taught about temple marriage." Why didn't he? Waiting for an answer.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Julie, who is King over Israel? Joseph Smith or Jesus Christ?

What? Why on earth do you ask this question?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

You mean right now?

No, it's not you Jeff. Thought you got help for that.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

How can the Evan Jesus be the right one, when you Evans believe you will be judging the tribes of Israel but the Bible Jesus is supposed to rule and judge it?

Give me the Scriptural reference pal.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

WOW, a Mormon who actually admits that we Christians don't interpret the Bible the same as they do. Well, we have seen where their interpretation has taken them. It is leading them straight to the Lake of Fire. Julie, has your Jesus always existed as God or not? Is your god an exalted man, or not? Do you believe that you MUST do good works or not gain salvation? And doing temple work is a work, which I know you are commanded to do by your leaders. And how does baptizing for the dead help anyone? Or doing a dead person's temple work? There are no second chances. ALL your temples are for doing work for dead people, how sad plus it does not follow the temple of the Bible at all! When was the last time an animal was sacrificed in one of your many temples? You continue to ignore me when I said, "Jesus never taught about temple marriage." Why didn't he? Waiting for an answer.

Yes, Jesus Christ is God. Has always been, will always be. It is because His nature is perfect and has always been that way.

But, he was also born, lived a life and died and then God the Father put all things under his feet---meaning that now, not only was His nature always perfect, but now He has overcome all. But he was part of the Godhead prior to His birth.

Yes, my God is an exalted man. Jesus Christ was a man and is exalted.

I believe I must do good works or I will reap the rewards of those who do not follow God---mainly eternal ****ation. That is what he tells us are the rewards for not following Him.

Anything we do that follows Christ is work. What we do with our bodies is called work.

Baptizing the dead helps them by doing for them what they can not do for themselves. As they are dead and have lost their bodies, they are unable to do those things they need that Christ asked them to do. When Christ died on the cross, he did for everyone what they could not do for themselves---whether they were dead or alive. Doing work for others is part of the gospel. Christ asks us to do as He did and do those life saving things they can not do anymore.

There are no second chances, but there are first chances. Many have lived and died without the opportunity to learn of Christ and be baptized. We will all be judged according to what we knew and what we did--but there are many who did not know truth.

We do not do animal sacrifices. The sacrifice that ended the sacrifice of animals was the death of Christ. Our sacrifice is now ourselves. We give ourselves over to God.

Christ has taught of the eternal family sense the time of Adam. Why make all the promises to Israel about reconnecting the family or bringing it back together if an eternal family is not part of his plan?

[RealFakeHair]

Yes, Jesus Christ is God. Has always been, will always be. It is because His nature is perfect and has always been that way.

But, he was also born, lived a life and died and then God the Father put all things under his feet---meaning that now, not only was His nature always perfect, but now He has overcome all. But he was part of the Godhead prior to His birth.

Yes, my God is an exalted man. Jesus Christ was a man and is exalted

I will always remember the episode in South Park. Dumb-dumb-dedumb....

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, Jesus Christ is God. Has always been, will always be. It is because His nature is perfect and has always been that way.

But, he was also born, lived a life and died and then God the Father put all things under his feet---meaning that now, not only was His nature always perfect, but now He has overcome all. But he was part of the Godhead prior to His birth.

Yes, my God is an exalted man. Jesus Christ was a man and is exalted.

I believe I must do good works or I will reap the rewards of those who do not follow God---mainly eternal ****ation. That is what he tells us are the rewards for not following Him.

Anything we do that follows Christ is work. What we do with our bodies is called work.

Baptizing the dead helps them by doing for them what they can not do for themselves. As they are dead and have lost their bodies, they are unable to do those things they need that Christ asked them to do. When Christ died on the cross, he did for everyone what they could not do for themselves---whether they were dead or alive. Doing work for others is part of the gospel. Christ asks us to do as He did and do those life saving things they can not do anymore.

There are no second chances, but there are first chances. Many have lived and died without the opportunity to learn of Christ and be baptized. We will all be judged according to what we knew and what we did--but there are many who did not know truth.

We do not do animal sacrifices. The sacrifice that ended the sacrifice of animals was the death of Christ. Our sacrifice is now ourselves. We give ourselves over to God.

Christ has taught of the eternal family sense the time of Adam. Why make all the promises to Israel about reconnecting the family or bringing it back together if an eternal family is not part of his plan?

You know doesn't Mormon deception have any boundaries? How could your MORMON Jesus have been always God when your cult states that he had to "attain" godhood by obedience?:

http://www.sharpenedsword.com/page/page/3770688.htm

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, Jesus Christ is God. Has always been, will always be. It is because His nature is perfect and has always been that way.

But, he was also born, lived a life and died and then God the Father put all things under his feet---meaning that now, not only was His nature always perfect, but now He has overcome all. But he was part of the Godhead prior to His birth.

Yes, my God is an exalted man. Jesus Christ was a man and is exalted.

I believe I must do good works or I will reap the rewards of those who do not follow God---mainly eternal ****ation. That is what he tells us are the rewards for not following Him.

Anything we do that follows Christ is work. What we do with our bodies is called work.

Baptizing the dead helps them by doing for them what they can not do for themselves. As they are dead and have lost their bodies, they are unable to do those things they need that Christ asked them to do. When Christ died on the cross, he did for everyone what they could not do for themselves---whether they were dead or alive. Doing work for others is part of the gospel. Christ asks us to do as He did and do those life saving things they can not do anymore.

There are no second chances, but there are first chances. Many have lived and died without the opportunity to learn of Christ and be baptized. We will all be judged according to what we knew and what we did--but there are many who did not know truth.

We do not do animal sacrifices. The sacrifice that ended the sacrifice of animals was the death of Christ. Our sacrifice is now ourselves. We give ourselves over to God.

Christ has taught of the eternal family sense the time of Adam. Why make all the promises to Israel about reconnecting the family or bringing it back together if an eternal family is not part of his plan?

How is life out there in left field all by yourself..I say that because even your prophet taught that God became God.. Jesus was said to be the first born in the preexistence and at the time He was so born He had not yet became God.. He is taught in mormonism as becoming a God but only due to His willingness to be obedient to the Father.. I would have though you knew all those things taught as truth in mormonism..

You are right that Jesus is exalted above all things.. You are right that he has a Body, you are wrong that He was raised as a man, He is not a man exalted or Not, He is God.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

His body like ours will be was changed. He is no longer in the same body in which He died.

1 Corinthians 15:43-44
It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So Jesus was raised in a Spiritual Body. Being in such He was NOT A MAN exalted or not..

You still claim that Good works are required for salvation into the Kingdom of God.. I have shown you where the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul spells iy out so clearly a blind man could see it.. He says NOT OF WORKS so that no man can boast.. Jesus taught Nicodemus that everlasting live is obtained through having faith in Him.. By saying that you MUST do good works to see His salvation you again call God a liar.. If you don't repent from that you will find your place in the Lake of Fire..

All men have had their one and only chance.. Again the scripture teaches that:

Romans 1:20-23
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

There is no excuse before God.. You either come to the God that is revealed through all He has made and stop seeing Him as the image of corruptible man (in the case of the LDS) or you will suffer for your rejection of Him.. Again there is no second chance and there is no excuse.. There is no baptism for the dead. Te Church never practiced such an ordinance.. To show the proof of the resurrection Paul did mention those that did practice that ordinance but never confirmed it was an ordinance of the Church..

Without sacrifice as you demand the LDS church doesn't do there is no need for priesthood.. The Church does offer sacrifice.. Animal no, but we offer the sacrifice of praise (Hebrews 13:15), and everyone in the Church are kings and PRIESTS unto God (Revelation 1:6)..

There is no reference in the Bible that this eternal family you teach is anything other than God being our eternal Father and those of believing mankind becoming His children.. Not teaching that always were His children but become His children through faith in Jesus (John 1:12)..

I have given you scripture reference for everything I have said here. Too bad you could offer the same.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

You know doesn't Mormon deception have any boundaries? How could your MORMON Jesus have been always God when your cult states that he had to "attain" godhood by obedience?:

http://www.sharpenedsword.com/page/page/3770688.htm

Actually, that is from the Bible. That God put all things under his feet. But, if you look, you will see that there are plenty of LDS scriptures that refer to the eternal nature of Christ.


Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:


Tools specific to Hbr 2:8

Hbr 2:8

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.


Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by James Banta

How is life out there in left field all by yourself..I say that because even your prophet taught that God became God.. Jesus was said to be the first born in the preexistence and at the time He was so born He had not yet became God.. He is taught in mormonism as becoming a God but only due to His willingness to be obedient to the Father.. I would have though you knew all those things taught as truth in mormonism..

You are misunderstanding the quote you are referring to.

Anything we learn about Jesus Christ, we can apply to God the Father--that is what Christ teaches us. What do we know about Christ? He has an intelligence that has always existed eternally and that intelligence or nature is perfect. He became a man, suffered as a man, died, was exalted.

And as far as being obedient--which came first-the chicken or the egg? Was his nature perfect and therefore he was perfectly obedient, or was he perfectly obedient and therefore,his nature was always perfect. As noted, God the Father put all things under his feet and exalted him. That is Biblical. That should cause you some confusion there---why would God have to be exalted and have anything put under his feet? Wouldn't it be there already?

You are right that Jesus is exalted above all things.. You are right that he has a Body, you are wrong that He was raised as a man, He is not a man exalted or Not, He is God.

Christ was never exalted? Or was never a man? Which one are you saying?

[

B]Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?[/B]

I guess this would give great cause to the Pharisees to not believe that Christ was God. Is that what you are trying to argue?

1 Corinthians 15:43-44
It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So Jesus was raised in a Spiritual Body. Being in such He was NOT A MAN exalted or not..

So, you don't think Christ was ever a man?

All men have had their one and only chance.. Again the scripture teaches that:

Romans 1:20-23
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Yes, I agree, but some never got a first chance to know of Christ. Umm, we recognize that God the Father is perfect, as is Christ. Not sure what you are trying to state here.

There is no reference in the Bible that this eternal family you teach is anything other than God being our eternal Father and those of believing mankind becoming His children.. Not teaching that always were His children but become His children through faith in Jesus (John 1:12)..

I have given you scripture reference for everything I have said here. Too bad you could offer the same.. IHS jim

I give you the Bible as a whole. It is one giant testimony as to the eternal family of God. Then it teaches of the eternal family of Israel. If you don't understand this, you miss the point of the Bible and why Christ came to save His people.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

lol, yeah right now or even in the pasted or future?

Well, in the past Israel has had kings such as Solomon, David, Hezekiah, and Josiah.
In the future, Christ will be the "king of the Jews" but He isn't doing much as their king right now, so it seems that right now they are king-less. They do have a Prime Minister. His name is Benjamin Netanyahu, and he seems to be a good man and a valiant leader and defender of Israel, but he is not the king.

Do you have any other relevant questions that I can answer for you?

[James Banta]

[QUOTE][BigJulie;150277]

You are misunderstanding the quote you are referring to.

Anything we learn about Jesus Christ, we can apply to God the Father--that is what Christ teaches us. What do we know about Christ? He has an intelligence that has always existed eternally and that intelligence or nature is perfect. He became a man, suffered as a man, died, was exalted.

And as far as being obedient--which came first-the chicken or the egg? Was his nature perfect and therefore he was perfectly obedient, or was he perfectly obedient and therefore,his nature was always perfect. As noted, God the Father put all things under his feet and exalted him. That is Biblical. That should cause you some confusion there---why would God have to be exalted and have anything put under his feet? Wouldn't it be there already?


Christ was never exalted? Or was never a man? Which one are you saying?

[ I guess this would give great cause to the Pharisees to not believe that Christ was God. Is that what you are trying to argue?

So, you don't think Christ was ever a man?

I am pleased to hear you say that Jesus and the Father are one.. That speaking of Jesus is speaking about the Father. So when we see that God has been God from everlasting to everlasting that is speaking of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.. I think I understand English to understand that when someone teaches that God became God they are saying that they haven't always been God.. Thomas S. Monson became the President of the LDS church.. He wasn't always the President.. He BECAME President.. So if we are taught that God became God there must have been a time before He was God.. You tell me I don't understand Smith's statement in the quote I used.. Here it is direct from the History of the Church. A history that is controlled by the LDS church:

In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of
those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should
understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I
am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed
that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away
the veil, so that you may see. History of the Church vol. 6, p. 305)

How do I misunderstand that Smith will refute the idea that God has been God from all eternity? Show me how that doesn't mean what he said and means something else.. It isn't Smith that confuses me in his doctrine it is you that doesn't make sense..

Yes, I agree, but some never got a first chance to know of Christ. Umm, we recognize that God the Father is perfect, as is Christ. Not sure what you are trying to state here.

What I am saying that God has made Himself know through all He has created.. Therefore NO ONE has an excuse.. How will those that worship God without knowing His word or ever hearing about Jesus? I believe God is just and His judgments will be just as just as He is.. But this p***age makes it clear that there is no second chance after death. We will be judged and know for a fact that what ever decision God has arrived at is JUST.. God say that they can see His Glory and His eternal Godhood. God say in given those things alone we would be without excuse.. No one can say "But I didn't know" I am sure that most will say that as God shows them how they rejected His word, That they said that nature just happened.. Like the most lost of cannibalistic aboriginal peoples of places like New Guinea they saw the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are CAN BE clearly seen, that can being understood by the things that He made, even his eternal power and Godhead. No one no matter where they are or who they are have an excuse..

I give you the Bible as a whole. It is one giant testimony as to the eternal family of God. Then it teaches of the eternal family of Israel. If you don't understand this, you miss the point of the Bible and why Christ came to save His people.

The Bible is a message from God explaining who He is and what He has done.. It's all about Him, it isn't about us (Isaiah 43:7).. How He will adopt us into His family (John 1:12).. Even LDS scripture tell this story in Moses 1:39.. Seem that today's LDS church has taken that *** way from God and demands on doing it themselves.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE][QUOTE=James Banta;150282]

I am pleased to hear you say that Jesus and the Father are one.. That speaking of Jesus is speaking about the Father. So when we see that God has been God from everlasting to everlasting that is speaking of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.. I think I understand English to understand that when someone teaches that God became God they are saying that they haven't always been God.. Thomas S. Monson became the President of the LDS church.. He wasn't always the President.. He BECAME President.. So if we are taught that God became God there must have been a time before He was God.. You tell me I don't understand Smith's statement in the quote I used.. Here it is direct from the History of the Church. A history that is controlled by the LDS church:

In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of
those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should
understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I
am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed
that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away
the veil, so that you may see. History of the Church vol. 6, p. 305)

Yes, easy enough then to understand that God (Jesus)---but you have to understand the context in which this was said and the backdrop of understanding of who Christ was for all eternity---as understood in the context of the whole gospel.

How do I misunderstand that Smith will refute the idea that God has been God from all eternity? Show me how that doesn't mean what he said and means something else.. It isn't Smith that confuses me in his doctrine it is you that doesn't make sense..

Christ was not "God" in the sense that all things were not under his feet until after he had atoned for the sins of the world. He was God in the sense of who his nature is--unchanging and forever.

What I am saying that God has made Himself know through all He has created.. Therefore NO ONE has an excuse.. How will those that worship God without knowing His word or ever hearing about Jesus? I believe God is just and His judgments will be just as just as He is.. But this p***age makes it clear that there is no second chance after death. We will be judged and know for a fact that what ever decision God has arrived at is JUST.. God say that they can see His Glory and His eternal Godhood. God say in given those things alone we would be without excuse.. No one can say "But I didn't know" I am sure that most will say that as God shows them how they rejected His word, That they said that nature just happened.. Like the most lost of cannibalistic aboriginal peoples of places like New Guinea they saw the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are CAN BE clearly seen, that can being understood by the things that He made, even his eternal power and Godhead. No one no matter where they are or who they are have an excuse..

Really, so what about those who were born prior to Christ in a part of the world that was completely unaware of Christ? How do they know God? Is it okay if they worshipped a "God" but they did not know it was Christ? Or is knowing Christ and important part of salvation?

The Bible is a message from God explaining who He is and what He has done.. It's all about Him, it isn't about us (Isaiah 43:7).. How He will adopt us into His family (John 1:12).. Even LDS scripture tell this story in Moses 1:39.. Seem that today's LDS church has taken that *** way from God and demands on doing it themselves.. IHS jim

No, but as always, God expects us to be involved in the work--just as he did Peter, James, John, and others.

[neverending]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;150283][QUOTE]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes, easy enough then to understand that God (Jesus)---but you have to understand the context in which this was said and the backdrop of understanding of who Christ was for all eternity---as understood in the context of the whole gospel.



Christ was not "God" in the sense that all things were not under his feet until after he had atoned for the sins of the world. He was God in the sense of who his nature is--unchanging and forever.





Really, so what about those who were born prior to Christ in a part of the world that was completely unaware of Christ? How do they know God? Is it okay if they worshipped a "God" but they did not know it was Christ? Or is knowing Christ and important part of salvation?


No, but as always, God expects us to be involved in the work--just as he did Peter, James, John, and others.

Julie....just this morning you claimed that Jesus has always been God. Now you say this, "Christ was not "God" in the sense that all things were not under his feet until after he had atoned for the sins of the world. He was God in the sense of who his nature is--unchanging and forever."

Now you are back peddling so I don't think you even know what you believe. Jesus has been God forever! He is part of the trinity. He was there when this Earth was created, he created the visible and invisible. CFR where it says he wasn't God until he atoned for the sins of the world. I know of no place in the Bible that says any such thing! You continue to make up things as you go along. Can you not see the inconsistencies of your comments? Your church's doctrines have your brain all messed up. You will be in my prayers that the Holy Spirit will begin to work in your heart and mind and clear out the cobwebs. These doctrines are not of God.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

Julie....just this morning you claimed that Jesus has always been God. Now you say this, "Christ was not "God" in the sense that all things were not under his feet until after he had atoned for the sins of the world. He was God in the sense of who his nature is--unchanging and forever."

Now you are back peddling so I don't think you even know what you believe. Jesus has been God forever! He is part of the trinity. He was there when this Earth was created, he created the visible and invisible. CFR where it says he wasn't God until he atoned for the sins of the world. I know of no place in the Bible that says any such thing! You continue to make up things as you go along. Can you not see the inconsistencies of your comments? Your church's doctrines have your brain all messed up. You will be in my prayers that the Holy Spirit will begin to work in your heart and mind and clear out the cobwebs. These doctrines are not of God.

Yes, Christ was part of the Godhead prior to the earth's creation. I am referring to this scripture:
1Cr 15:27-28 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Clearly, there was a point that "all things" were subdued unto Christ...such as death.

When do you think this happened? Or do you think it was this way from eternity to eternity and that things were never subdued unto him?