Why African Americans Should Stay Away From Mormonism

[Apologette]

Note above how a Mormon condemns the Biblical view that God is Omnipresent. That's because Mormons have a puny physical god that spends all day procreating babies, and has to ***ign duties to his underlings. He didn't even create anything, just ***igned some of his kids to reorganize matter. This god is a total fiction.

Is God omnipresent, you can study what the Bible says here: http://www.openbible.info/topics/omnipresence

[Ma'am]

EVERYONE should stay away from the LDS and not join, not just African-Americans.

[Ma'am]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Note above how a Mormon condemns the Biblical view that God is Omnipresent. That's because Mormons have a puny physical god that spends all day procreating babies, and has to ***ign duties to his underlings. He didn't even create anything, just ***igned some of his kids to reorganize matter. This god is a total fiction.

Is God omnipresent, you can study what the Bible says here: http://www.openbible.info/topics/omnipresence

He sounds like a very weak, ineffectual sort of god.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Note above how a Mormon condemns the Biblical view that God is Omnipresent.

Nah, I just condemn the supers***ious fairy tale about Jesus being literally simultaneously everywhere. That ain't in the Bible. It's merely an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

You might as well claim that God literally has chicken wings, too, as long as you're doing eisegesis on metaphorical verses.

[Ma'am]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Nah, I just condemn the supers***ious fairy tale about Jesus being literally simultaneously everywhere. That ain't in the Bible. It's merely an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

You might as well claim that God literally has chicken wings, too, as long as you're doing eisegesis on metaphorical verses.

Jesus said that wherever two or three are gathered in His name, there He would be, in the midst of them. That is being omnipresent, as thousands, if not millions, of people gather together in His name all over the world, every day. And Jesus wasn't being poetic. Or do you think Jesus was a liar?

God has stated that there is no place we can go, to get away from Him. He is there in the depths of the sea, and in the farthest reaches of the stars. That is being omnipresent. That isn't being poetic, but a simple statement of fact. Even if it were being poetic, would God say something about Himself that wasn't true, even to be poetic? After all, the bible says that "God is not a man, that He should lie." Unlike Joseph Smith who lied all the time.

So, the LDS Elohim is a weak, ineffectual, limited little "god" not worthy of the t-i-t-l-e.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Ma'am

Jesus said that wherever two or three are gathered in His name, there He would be, in the midst of them.

And you took that LITERALLY? I rest my case. You have an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

I guess anytime someone tells you "You're in our thoughts" you believe that you, as a person, will literally be in their thoughts.

And Jesus wasn't being poetic. Or do you think Jesus was a liar?

When Jesus pointed to Mary and told John "Behold your mother" and John took it literally, I bet it was a shock to John. All those years he thought some other lady had been his mom.

So, of the option of Jesus being poetic and speaking metaphorically, or Jesus being a liar, I will vote for "Jesus was being poetic."

God has stated that there is no place we can go, to get away from Him.

And Obama has stated that there was no place Osama Bin Laden could go where he'd be able to escape the U.S. military. So you believe that the U.S. Military is literally everywhere, all the time. Interesting.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Because of Mormonism's racist past, they are seeking to convert African Americans so that they can prove they are not racist! They even use blacks in their ads, "I'm a Mormon." They think this will counter their past racism! I live among Mormons here in the southwest, and in our area there is not one Mormon who is black, and few who are Hispanic. In fact, I've had Hispanics complain to me about prejudice against them in totally Mormon areas! I believe it because down deep Mormons still believe what their own prophets have taught them in the past:
[B]

I know a lot about this history---especially in light of my family having African American as part of their heritage. I think you are giving a very one-sided look at this issue.

[Apologette]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;150013]

I know a lot about this history---especially in light of my family having African American as part of their heritage. I think you are giving a very one-sided look at this issue.

I don't. It's much worse than I posted.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

I don't. It's much worse than I posted.

Actually, it is not. The racism that existed was part of the culture of the time period.

Joseph Smith ordained a black man to the priesthood and he was a member of the first quorum of the seventy. Like so many issues, if you really want to know what happened, you have to do a lot of historical research--and then, just as of today---it is hard to really know.

Just as we can't really know the full extent of anyone's life or their decisions or their thoughts in our lifetime, it is even more difficult to know the full-truth of the past.

For this reason, if you want to know---you have to really be willing to look at all sides of the issue and present it fully.

What I do know is that God is no respecter of persons and His atonement is for all. This has always been part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

And you took that LITERALLY? I rest my case. You have an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

I guess anytime someone tells you "You're in our thoughts" you believe that you, as a person, will literally be in their thoughts.


When Jesus pointed to Mary and told John "Behold your mother" and John took it literally, I bet it was a shock to John. All those years he thought some other lady had been his mom.

So, of the option of Jesus being poetic and speaking metaphorically, or Jesus being a liar, I will vote for "Jesus was being poetic."


And Obama has stated that there was no place Osama Bin Laden could go where he'd be able to escape the U.S. military. So you believe that the U.S. Military is literally everywhere, all the time. Interesting.

Jeff, when I have had a friend who was ill or having difficulties within their family, and I tell them, "you will be in my thoughts and prayers" YOU better know that YES, that person will be in my thoughts and prayers. I don't say that only to hear myself, it is sincere and true. I guess for you saying that would be insincere for you really don't care about that person. Now when Christ looked down from hanging on the cross he said to John, "Behold your mother" Christ was telling John that soon I will be dead and my mother will need someone to look after her; I am asking you to do that and treat her as if she were your mother. It is sad that you didn't realize that touching moment.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by neverending

Jeff, when I have had a friend who was ill or having difficulties within their family, and I tell them, "you will be in my thoughts and prayers" YOU better know that YES, that person will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Yeah, but not literally. The person won't be actually transported inside your head. It's just an expression. It's NEVER intended to be taken literally. Some Bible verses are like that.

I guess for you saying that would be insincere for you really don't care about that person.

You guess wrong.

Now when Christ looked down from hanging on the cross he said to John, "Behold your mother" Christ was telling John that soon I will be dead and my mother will need someone to look after her; I am asking you to do that and treat her as if she were your mother.

You have correctly recognized a metaphorical statement. Congratulations. See, some Bible statements were not intended to be taken literally. This is one example, as you have rightly noticed. "I and My Father are one" is another such statement.

It is sad that you didn't realize that touching moment.

You guessed wrong again. I realized that moment before you did, perhaps. What is REALLY sad is that you have yet to realize those OTHER statements that were intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally.

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;150021]Yeah, but not literally. The person won't be actually transported inside your head. It's just an expression. It's NEVER intended to be taken literally. Some Bible verses are like that.

Yes in some verses a simile is used to help us understand God's intent.. God isn't a consuming fire but He is like a consuming fire.. It isn't a hen protecting her chicks but His affection for His children can be seen in that picture.. Can a person be in our thoughts and prayers? No more in that than they can be in our thoughts as they stand directly before us.. But my mother lives in my heart and mind. Her body has been in the ground for many years now.. Who are you to say she doesn't? That is not provable by you or anyone else.. You would be foolish to try..

What do you not want to take literally about the Bible? Maybe your pet doctrines that there are three Gods or is it one God and two ***istants , one a demigod? If you don't like the literal meaning of a scripture you will have to explain the real meaning of the nonliterary text.. Until it can be shown to be a simile or a metaphor it has to be seen as literal..

"I and My Father are one" is another such statement.

Here is where you are running into a problem.. Is it a metaphor? I see the p***ages that teach that there is ONE GOD. That No God has ever been formed before God was God or after He was already God.. God Himself telling us that He doesn't know that any other God exists.. And still you deny that Jesus meant it literally that He and the Father are one.. If there is One God and the Father is God and Jesus is God how can it be that they are NOT literally one? Because of all that He has told us about Himself, the Father and the Son must be one God, coeternal in that state.. If you have other pretended Biblical metaphors please bring then up and we can use the Bible to make it clear whether they are or not..

You guessed wrong again. I realized that moment before you did, perhaps. What is REALLY sad is that you have yet to realize those OTHER statements that were intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally.

What is sad is that you take p***ages to be metaphorically when it is clear that their literal meaning is supported in many other p***ages in the Word.. Such action is mere mistrust of God through His message to us.. That is the opposite of faith and the scripture makes it clear that salvation is by God's grace through Faith and NOT BY WORKS, and not by calling truth mere metaphors.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Actually, it is not. The racism that existed was part of the culture of the time period.

Joseph Smith ordained a black man to the priesthood and he was a member of the first quorum of the seventy. Like so many issues, if you really want to know what happened, you have to do a lot of historical research--and then, just as of today---it is hard to really know.

Just as we can't really know the full extent of anyone's life or their decisions or their thoughts in our lifetime, it is even more difficult to know the full-truth of the past.

For this reason, if you want to know---you have to really be willing to look at all sides of the issue and present it fully.

What I do know is that God is no respecter of persons and His atonement is for all. This has always been part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Well, I guess it all depends on how you take the ugly, hateful remarks that Brigham Young made about blacks!

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Note above how a Mormon condemns the Biblical view that God is Omnipresent. That's because Mormons have a puny physical god that spends all day procreating babies, and has to ***ign duties to his underlings. He didn't even create anything, just ***igned some of his kids to reorganize matter. This god is a total fiction.

Is God omnipresent, you can study what the Bible says here: http://www.openbible.info/topics/omnipresence

That is the miracle of mormonism, their god has time for all day sex, meetings with his LDSinc. new comers, from their Exaltionals, and who knows what else, all this in a 24 hour day.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Actually, it is not.

Do you agree with the statements from your early leaders on this issue?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Well, I guess it all depends on how you take the ugly, hateful remarks that Brigham Young made about blacks!

I take them to be a part of history (well, as historic as the discourses are because they were not actually written by Brigham Young and were not overviewed by him) and is racism part of our history? Yes. Is it part of all American's history? Yes.

How do we feel about African Americans, today and yesterday.

As I said, a black man was ordained by Joseph Smith into the priesthood and part of the first quorum of the seventy. You have not addressed that. You prefer to keep it one-sided. But as I said, if you really want to know the history of blacks in the LDS faith, it takes a lot more than a few quotes.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do you agree with the statements from your early leaders on this issue?

Billyray, those statements were not canonized and are not part of our religion today.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Nah, I just condemn the supers***ious fairy tale about Jesus being literally simultaneously everywhere. That ain't in the Bible. It's merely an overliteralized misinterpretation of POETIC language in the Bible.

You might as well claim that God literally has chicken wings, too, as long as you're doing eisegesis on metaphorical verses.

As if you knew anything about the Bible!

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I take them to be a part of history (well, as historic as the discourses are because they were not actually written by Brigham Young and were not overviewed by him) and is racism part of our history? Yes. Is it part of all American's history? Yes.

How do we feel about African Americans, today and yesterday.

As I said, a black man was ordained by Joseph Smith into the priesthood and part of the first quorum of the seventy. You have not addressed that. You prefer to keep it one-sided. But as I said, if you really want to know the history of blacks in the LDS faith, it takes a lot more than a few quotes.

Any African-American who doesn't condemn the racial slurs of Mormon leaders has been so indoctrinated that their own self-respect is gone.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Any African-American who doesn't condemn the racial slurs of Mormon leaders has been so indoctrinated that their own self-respect is gone.

Isn't it interesting that the first non Israelite (Gentile) convert, to Jesus was a Black man? One thought of by God as being so valuable that Philip was taken by the power of God to tell him of the way to life through Jesus? And mormonism had the gall (they being God's one true church) to say that the black race was ever inferior? I am ashamed of the way the southern churches (for that matter the northern ones too) treated the black race.. Apparently God loves them very much.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Any African-American who doesn't condemn the racial slurs of Mormon leaders has been so indoctrinated that their own self-respect is gone.

You forget, my husband's family has African American heritage--and I am close friends with quite a few African American Mormons.

I think they see it the way I do. History is messy--the gospel is pure. Humans will always be flawed. God will always be perfect. Happiness comes from learning who God is and doing as He teaches. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) is the gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness. As such, it teaches correct principles that lead to happiness.

As I said as with Edison and Tesla--you can either make your opinion by trying to judge history or you can form your opinion by enjoying the "light" of today.

http://thevisualcommunicationguy.com...r-infographic/

Mormons are not surprised by these results.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

That is the miracle of mormonism, their god has time for all day sex, meetings with his LDSinc. new comers, from their Exaltionals, and who knows what else, all this in a 24 hour day.

Hanging out in the various "holy of holies" rooms in the Mormon temples for relaxation!

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You forget, my husband's family has African American heritage--and I am close friends with quite a few African American Mormons.

I think they see it the way I do. History is messy--the gospel is pure. Humans will always be flawed. God will always be perfect. Happiness comes from learning who God is and doing as He teaches. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) is the gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness. As such, it teaches correct principles that lead to happiness.

As I said as with Edison and Tesla--you can either make your opinion by trying to judge history or you can form your opinion by enjoying the "light" of today.

http://thevisualcommunicationguy.com...r-infographic/

Mormons are not surprised by these results.

How does your husband feel about Young's statements? No problems?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

How does your husband feel about Young's statements? No problems?

He sees them as just that---statements. He has studied the history of the blacks of the church at length and he said the end result is that his testimony is stronger. You want a "clean" religion---but the only way to do that is to separate yourself from any human of the past--as if the Bible dropped in your lap and there were no humans or human flaws involved. God understands it doesn't work that way. So do I. So does my husband.

[theway]

Why African Americans Should Stay Away From Mormonism

I'm curious as to why you would use such a racist comment to start your thread?

After all, it appears you think that "African Americans" would be more emotionally unstable and break down after reading your thread, than say if a White was to read your thread. But then maybe I'm ***uming too much; what exactly did you mean by "African Americans". Do you believe that all people from Africa are Black, and therefore will never be able to identify themselves as anything else? What do you have against Blacks only identifying themselves as Americans? Do you not want Black Americans?

It seems someone's racism is peeking through, and its not the LDS.