Thinking of Joining the Mormons? Here's Why Mormons Leave the LDS!

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by neverending

OH, and there has never been any Mormon who has been unfaithful to their spouse? Give me a break! There are none righteous, no NOT ONE! What of all the disgusting Scout Leaders who have molested young boys? And the Bishops who have protected those pedophiles? Come down off your high horse since it's not good to throw stones when one lives in a gl*** house!! You are overly obsessed with my family aren't you along with people's ages too. Hmmmm, have you thought about getting some professional help?
And let's not forget that it is YOUR church that claims to be the "Only True Church" but so many certainly don't live it's teachings. Don't go about claiming you have the truth but fail to live it. Why do so many LDS women have to take anti-anxiety meds or anti-depressants? Because the pressure put upon them by their husbands, Bishops and even your prophet is more then they can bear. It' hard enough to be a mother, and wife and then for many to have to work outside the home and be expected to be perfect. I feel very sorry for those trodden down women. Jesus told us to, "come unto me ye who are burdened and heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matt. 11:28) Having Christ in your heart and life, no one should feel pressure, no one should worry for He will walk with us, will carry our burdens for he promised he would never leave us, nor forsake us.

Why is it that so many LDS don't believe in repentance? Why is it when sin comes into our life that they demand that we hold onto it forever? The Bible tell us that God removes our sin as far as the west is from the east (Psalm 103:12).. How is it that any man can stick it back on me or anyone else? Once it has been taken to Jesus, He replaces it with His righteousness.. Show sir as I have he still wishes to serve the accuser of the brothern and hold up the sin sign over those Jesus died to cleanse.. That is evil and a denial of the Lord Jesus and His work for our salvation.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

OH, and there has never been any Mormon who has been unfaithful to their spouse? Give me a break! There are none righteous, no NOT ONE! What of all the disgusting Scout Leaders who have molested young boys? And the Bishops who have protected those pedophiles? Come down off your high horse since it's not good to throw stones when one lives in a gl*** house!! You are overly obsessed with my family aren't you along with people's ages too. Hmmmm, have you thought about getting some professional help?

You made my point. Here you guys attack the LDS church and its people, in this case, attacking LDS men for allegedly stalking young girls in order to marry them in the after life. So I use James as an example of the "believers" who didn't allegedly stalked young girls to marry in another life but sought out a woman to be with in THIS life, AGAINST the marriage of his wife. And this, AFTER he left the LDS church and was a "saved, indwelt, believing 'Christian'".

You call it a gl*** house and I say you are right.

As for being obsessed with age, you have made more comments about me being obsessed with age than I have made about age. Think about that for a minute before calling for seeking out psychological help.

And let's not forget that it is YOUR church that claims to be the "Only True Church" but so many certainly don't live it's teachings. Don't go about claiming you have the truth but fail to live it. Why do so many LDS women have to take anti-anxiety meds or anti-depressants? Because the pressure put upon them by their husbands, Bishops and even your prophet is more then they can bear. It' hard enough to be a mother, and wife and then for many to have to work outside the home and be expected to be perfect. I feel very sorry for those trodden down women. Jesus told us to, "come unto me ye who are burdened and heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matt. 11:28) Having Christ in your heart and life, no one should feel pressure, no one should worry for He will walk with us, will carry our burdens for he promised he would never leave us, nor forsake us.

Right on cue...tangential tirade of random attacks that have nothing to do with the conversation.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Hey, I informed you of accounts that explained the reasons why some people leave other churches and join the LDS church. I can't help it if you planned to fail to take those accounts into...account.


I am, because my claim was simply that I would rather see polls that asked converts to LDS the reasons why they left their former churches.

Do you now understand what I said, and why your "Who is right?" question is invalid?

You didn't show why they left their former churches. All you said was "Go buy a book" In that book will it give an overview of why people left Christian churches? NO!!! It will give reasons like, I FELT this way while I was a (Whatever) and now I FEEL this way now that I am LDS.. What I have seen of that book didn't show any scriptural reasons for their conversion, only their feelings.. And their hearts like all men are deceitful ABOVE EVEN SATAN (All things).. He lies to men, so will their own hearts only it will lie even more than Satan does.. I have shown you a recent statement from a GA and you throw a BYU professor of Entrepreneurship at me in re****al. Your point loses in authority and in substance.. IHS jim

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

You made my point. Here you guys attack the LDS church and its people, in this case, attacking LDS men for allegedly stalking young girls in order to marry them in the after life. So I use James as an example of the "believers" who didn't allegedly stalked young girls to marry in another life but sought out a woman to be with in THIS life, AGAINST the marriage of his wife. And this, AFTER he left the LDS church and was a "saved, indwelt, believing 'Christian'".

You call it a gl*** house and I say you are right.

As for being obsessed with age, you have made more comments about me being obsessed with age than I have made about age. Think about that for a minute before calling for seeking out psychological help.



Right on cue...tangential tirade of random attacks that have nothing to do with the conversation.

Only following your lead since reading many of your tirades and comments that never address a question. Why are you so blind as to not understand the way to repentance? If God told us when we ask for His forgiveness, he will remember it NO MORE, what don't you understand about that? Oh, you want to only accept the things written in the Bible that suit you. Guess with your ****ogy, none of your sins have been forgiven either. That is very sad indeed. As for me, I accept what God has taught and take Him at His word, not yours.

[neverending]

When did I say this, "Here you guys attack the LDS church and its people, in this case, attacking LDS men for allegedly stalking young girls in order to marry them in the after life." I never said any such thing! I said, Scout Leaders who molest young boys and their Bishops protecting the pedophiles. Sorry, you've got me confused with another poster. Don't accuse me of things I didn't say.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

When did I say this, "Here you guys attack the LDS church and its people, in this case, attacking LDS men for allegedly stalking young girls in order to marry them in the after life." I never said any such thing! I said, Scout Leaders who molest young boys and their Bishops protecting the pedophiles. Sorry, you've got me confused with another poster. Don't accuse me of things I didn't say.

Right. It was Apologette. Hence "you guys", meaning you Anti-LDS. Which is who I was responding to when you joined the conversation. So since you felt the need to join in, you are part of "you guys"

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

Only following your lead since reading many of your tirades and comments that never address a question. Why are you so blind as to not understand the way to repentance? If God told us when we ask for His forgiveness, he will remember it NO MORE, what don't you understand about that? Oh, you want to only accept the things written in the Bible that suit you. Guess with your ****ogy, none of your sins have been forgiven either. That is very sad indeed. As for me, I accept what God has taught and take Him at His word, not yours.

Problem is, you cannot ask for repentance, receive it, and then claim everyone else you don't agree theologically are unrepentant sinners. And then attack them for their alleged "sins". Seems God might not look on YOUR forgiveness if you are going to judge others...

[James Banta]

[Sir;149913]So you were st upid to believe the actions of the people were not reflective of the church. Since you believe the actions of people ARE the actions of the church, how do you reconcile your adultery with the church, since it happened after you left Mormonism and was a "Christian"?

I do so the same why a Great leader of the Church from the First century justified his sins.. I know you hate seeing scripture so I won't quote it word for word. I will just say that it wasn't I that sinned but sin that lives in me, that is in my flesh (Romans 7:17).. Yes I have Biblical authority to answer your question.. You had none to ask it in the first place unless you agree that you are in agreement with the accuser of the brothern..

You realize the same thing happened in a "Christian" church, right? You seem to always want to point fingers at the LDS church, without thinking through the fact that your criticisms actually attack your own faith far worse, since you believe they are the indwelt of the Holy Spirit.

No, it didn't.. It didn't happen in any Christian church. In snoops I found that "this particular version of the "incognito clergyman" tale, it appears to be a fabricated story. No one has yet identified a real pastor by the name of Jeremiah Steepek (or a similar variant of that name) or found any church, large or small, headed by a pastor with that name. Nor has anyone been able to verify the event described, even though it was supposedly witnessed by several thousand congregants. (Read more at http://www.snopes.com/glurge/homeles...llwvmGsubUu.99).. If you are going to make charges against me at least do 3 or 4 mins of research to make sure you are basing your comments in truth.. Your comments here are out and out unbiblical, and just plain old mean spirited.. They are all based in lies way outside the teaching of the Bible.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Right. It was Apologette. Hence "you guys", meaning you Anti-LDS. Which is who I was responding to when you joined the conversation. So since you felt the need to join in, you are part of "you guys"

By lumping us all together I can do the same with the LDS, RIGHT? You are then a liar since Smith Lied about having only one wife.. You are an unconfessed adulterer in that Smith was know to have spent a night in a bedroom with two different women:

Benjamin Johnson wrote: "On the 15th of May the Prophet again Came and at my hosue [house] occupied the Same Room & Bed with my Sister that the month previous he had occupied with the Daughter of the Later Bishop Partridge as his wife. (In Sacred Loneliness, pp. 12-13). "You Guys" are all one in your church right? IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

You are gullible that you probably believe that, especially given your penchant for conspiracy theories.

But, oddly enough, James Banta wasn't a Mormon anymore when he scoped out a woman to cheat on his wife with.

Which of the two scenerios above is worse?

I don't know.. Which would be worse in the eyes of God looking at lust at a woman or committing a sin that later was confessed and repented of? Humm seems that God has offered to forgive us our sins as we confess them to Him and turn from them.. I would say the unrepentant sin of lust for many wives is a worse sin than even the sins I have ever committed and repented of.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

After this last demonstration of LDS acceptance as their Bishop posed as a homeless man and he was so completely rejected our claims against the LDS church in it's lack of caring have been again confirmed.. Scream to the top of your lungs how loving the mormons are and I will point to these examples of their lack of care.. Remember your Bible? "When you have done it to the least of these, my brothern, you have done it unto me.." Mormon seem to have forgotten that..

Maybe you could post a link to the story you are referring to. Because I sure didn't read "completely rejected."

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Maybe you could post a link to the story you are referring to. Because I sure didn't read "completely rejected."

You can read it yourself at http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...elman.html.csp. In case you don't know what SLCTRB is it is the Salt Lake Tribune.. If you don't like the "Gentile paper you can find the same story on http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...on.html?pg=all..

You can not call me on the "completely rejected" comment I never said that myself.. I said that he was "SO completely rejected our claims against the LDS church in it's lack of caring have been again confirmed." That is that "so completely rejected" to confirm my accusation against the LDS church for it's uncaring ways. Not to prove that every person rejected him. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

You can read it yourself at http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...elman.html.csp. In case you don't know what SLCTRB is it is the Salt Lake Tribune.. If you don't like the "Gentile paper you can find the same story on http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...on.html?pg=all..

You can not call me on the "completely rejected" comment I never said that myself.. I said that he was "SO completely rejected our claims against the LDS church in it's lack of caring have been again confirmed." That is that "so completely rejected" to confirm my accusation against the LDS church for it's uncaring ways. Not to prove that every person rejected him. IHS jim

Huh? You said "so completely rejected" and not "completely rejected"? Please explain, because I even read the word "so" as being an emphasis on completely rejected.

The following is from the SLT article

"I had people try to kick me off the property, and I had people who were very warm and invited me in and offered to give me food and money and everything in between," Musselman said.

He said some children ran home and gave him graham crackers, apples and water, and he collected $20 in cash.

Doesn't quite sound like complete anything to me. One of his counselors, who was unaware it was him, offered to have him come in and help him. Neither complete rejection or complete acceptance. I don't think this does anything to support your claim or counter your claim.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Huh? You said "so completely rejected" and not "completely rejected"? Please explain, because I even read the word "so" as being an emphasis on completely rejected.

The following is from the SLT article


Doesn't quite sound like complete anything to me. One of his counselors, who was unaware it was him, offered to have him come in and help him. Neither complete rejection or complete acceptance. I don't think this does anything to support your claim or counter your claim.

It was written as I meant it.. Because you decided to take my words out of context as to change their meaning doesn't make me responsible for the changes you make.. It was so complete that it justified my judgments as mormonism being uncaring.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

It was written as I meant it.. Because you decided to take my words out of context as to change their meaning doesn't make me responsible for the changes you make.. It was so complete that it justified my judgments as mormonism being uncaring.. IHS jim

So you read ""I had people try to kick me off the property, and I had people who were very warm and invited me in and offered to give me food and money and everything in between," Musselman said.

He said some children ran home and gave him graham crackers, apples and water, and he collected $20 in cash." as complete rejection? I'm sorry, but here is a case where your writing style is getting in the way of understanding. You say you didn't say "completely rejected" but you said "SO completely rejected." What is the difference?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

So you read ""I had people try to kick me off the property, and I had people who were very warm and invited me in and offered to give me food and money and everything in between," Musselman said.

He said some children ran home and gave him graham crackers, apples and water, and he collected $20 in cash." as complete rejection? I'm sorry, but here is a case where your writing style is getting in the way of understanding. You say you didn't say "completely rejected" but you said "SO completely rejected." What is the difference?

If it was the vast majority that wanted you off the property it would show a lack of comp***ion.. That is what happened.. Some people actually offered him money to leave.. The article NEVER said anyone opened their home, offered him a meal or a place to stay.. So completely rejected means that a vast majority of the members there wanted him to leave, offered to pay him to leave. Were made uncomfortable by his presence. He was so completely rejected by his own ward members he felt they needed a lesson in comp***ion and after he made himself known to them gave them that lesson..

I pray that the members of his Ward always remember the lessons they learned that day.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If it was the vast majority that wanted you off the property it would show a lack of comp***ion.. That is what happened.. Some people actually offered him money to leave.. The article NEVER said anyone opened their home, offered him a meal or a place to stay.. So completely rejected means that a vast majority of the members there wanted him to leave, offered to pay him to leave. Were made uncomfortable by his presence. He was so completely rejected by his own ward members he felt they needed a lesson in comp***ion and after he made himself known to them gave them that lesson..

I pray that the members of his Ward always remember the lessons they learned that day.. IHS jim

Maybe then one of us has a misunderstanding of a definition of a word or phrase. Complete rejection to you means that vast majority of something? So if I was to say that you completely reject the teachings of Mormonism, then I could say that there are some things that you do absolutely agree with. Complete rejection to me means that I reject 100% of something.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

No, it didn't.. It didn't happen in any Christian church. In snoops I found that "this particular version of the "incognito clergyman" tale, it appears to be a fabricated story. No one has yet identified a real pastor by the name of Jeremiah Steepek (or a similar variant of that name) or found any church, large or small, headed by a pastor with that name. Nor has anyone been able to verify the event described, even though it was supposedly witnessed by several thousand congregants. (Read more at http://www.snopes.com/glurge/homeles...llwvmGsubUu.99)..

http://www.theleafchronicle.com/view...tion-Sango-UMC

If you are going to make charges against me at least do 3 or 4 mins of research to make sure you are basing your comments in truth..

I did. Apparently you did not. Hypocrite.

Your comments here are out and out unbiblical, and just plain old mean spirited.. They are all based in lies way outside the teaching of the Bible.. IHS jim

I know you wont admit to feeling st upid right now, but you sure look that way after trying to chastise me when you were the one in the wrong.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If it was the vast majority that wanted you off the property it would show a lack of comp***ion.. That is what happened.. Some people actually offered him money to leave.. The article NEVER said anyone opened their home, offered him a meal or a place to stay.. So completely rejected means that a vast majority of the members there wanted him to leave, offered to pay him to leave. Were made uncomfortable by his presence. He was so completely rejected by his own ward members he felt they needed a lesson in comp***ion and after he made himself known to them gave them that lesson..

I pray that the members of his Ward always remember the lessons they learned that day.. IHS jim

James, how many nights of lodging have you personally provided for homeless strangers?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Why is it that so many LDS don't believe in repentance?

We all believe in it, as far as I know. Can you name 10 who don't?
What some of us don't like, is antis who are hypocrites. If one of them attacks us for some supposed failures of some of our members once long ago, then maybe it's the anti who doesn't believe in forgiveness.

He just can't let this alleged sin of the LDS go. He brings it up, even decades later, and uses it as a lame attempt to attack present-day LDS in a forum--LDS who had nothing to do with the supposed bad treatment of once upon a time.

When that happens, then it's human nature to ask him why he's railing about other people's inability to forgive, when he himself has apparent trouble in that department.

Why is it when sin comes into our life that they demand that we hold onto it forever?

Jim, don't hold on forever to those alleged sins of those allegedly mean LDS from long ago. It's not good for your spirit to make that bitterness and anger ferment for decades.

Forgive those LDS. Forgive Joseph Smith. And then God will forgive you.


Luke 11:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 ‘And forgive us our sins,
For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation.’”

[neverending]

What James said went right over your head! He was asking why LDS can't forgive? Why does an LDS continue to throw a sin into his face when he has acknowledged it, asked for forgiveness from God and myself and family. We know that God has forgiven him, I have forgiven him and this is our life, and only concerns us and God. For someone to continue to throw it in James' face is wrong and definitely shows that they are unforgiving and mean spirited and only wants to cause bad feelings for our family. Is it right to interfere in someone's family? NO!

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

James, how many nights of lodging have you personally provided for homeless strangers?

How does two weeks sound? And we also took them shopping to buy underwear, gloves, hats and hygiene items. We've also offered our home to a man who has done work on our home and lost his business. On a hot summer day, our door bell rang. I answered and found a young man about 15 or 16 standing on our porch. He asked if he could have something to eat. At first I was surprised but I invited him in and told him that we didn't have much as I had yet to go for groceries that week. To make a long story short, James made him a sandwich and asked if he'd like a gl*** of milk, something to drink but he said, "no, the sandwich was enough." He hadn't quite finished his sandwich when he thanked us and left. He hadn't been gone 3 minutes when I wondered where he was going. I then went to the door to look for him and he was no where to be found. I know there wasn't a car on our street so it's like he vanished into thin air. We don't go around bragging about the things we have done and continue to do, for the less fortunate......that is not what we are about. We would rather do things privately. Since you asked, I needed to answer.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

Problem is, you cannot ask for repentance, receive it, and then claim everyone else you don't agree theologically are unrepentant sinners. And then attack them for their alleged "sins". Seems God might not look on YOUR forgiveness if you are going to judge others...

And you continue to judge my husband every time you mention his infidelity! What business is it of yours? This is an incident that happened over 14 years ago. It is in the past but you are obsessed with it.....maybe you want all the juicy details since we know Mormons are sexually repressed individuals. If that were not so, we wouldn't keep hearing of another Boy Scout leader being arrested for molesting young boys or school teachers both male and female having sex with their students.

[James Banta]

[QUOTE=Sir;149953]http://www.theleafchronicle.com/view...tion-Sango-UMC

Yes I read that.. It has been debunked by Snoops.. Can you show a minister by the name of Jeremiah Steepek (or a similar variant of that name) found in any church, large or small. Snoops couldn't.. Snoops couldn't find one person in that area or any other are in the nation that witnessed these events? What happened to the members and visitors of a church with 10,000 people in attendance? Sorry but that story is a myth, there is no evidence that it ever happened..

I did. Apparently you did not. Hypocrite.

Really what is so hard about checking with Snoops? Is you want to know if a story is an urban legend or a real event you can verify it there.. This one is proven to be just that an Urban Legend. The story of the Pastor of the Sango United Methodist Church is another story. He lived as a homeless man and cleaned up as he gave the Church a sermon.. He never tried to pawn himself off to them as anything other than their new Pastor.. Did you read the whole story?

This isn't what the Bishop in TAYLORSVILLE Utah did at all.. He disguises himself as homeless man to teach lesson to his new Ward.. The pastor of the Methodist church in Sango never tried to trick anyone.. The Bishop of the TAYLORSVILLE ward only used trickery.. He didn't feel the rejection that the homeless feel as they live in our cities. He only saw the rejection of his own people.. People actually asking Him to leave.. Most ignoring him completely. Only a few wanting to reach out and help him. This is not the story of the Good Samaritan being lived out in the lives of the LDS at all this is the story of the Levite and the Priest that p***ed the injured man by..

I know you wont admit to feeling st upid right now, but you sure look that way after trying to chastise me when you were the one in the wrong.

Since you changed the story from one exactly like what Bishop Musselman did in the person of a Jeremiah Steepek who was said to be a pastor of a church of some 10,000 members to one of a small Methodist church. I had the right to find out more about it before being condemned by you or any one else.. Now that I have I see what Pastor Lyle did it is clear that the lesson learned there were his lessons given to him by God. They were not the lessons taught to his church. He then shared with the church what God had taught him.. No deception, no hiding, no lies. If you want to look at the face of a Hypocrite start with the mirror. What I have said in this thread is 100% factual..

Your personal ******ination attempts have again failed.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Problem is, you cannot ask for repentance, receive it, and then claim everyone else you don't agree theologically are unrepentant sinners. And then attack them for their alleged "sins". Seems God might not look on YOUR forgiveness if you are going to judge others...

If I claimed to not sin or have some special justification that no one else has access to, I would agree with you. But when a know it all Bible hater comes along and condemns all scripture he disagrees with. I can say that such a man is on the wide road without endangering my place as God's child.. Was John the baptist a sinner in the eyes of God (Romans 3:23). Did he not accuse king Herod of sin? I guess he didn't have the right to try to bring Him to repentance.. That is how silly your charges against me are.. Yes I sinned.. I have also turned from it and sinned in many other ways instead.. I claim only the righteousness of Jesus that is offered to all who will believe Him.. I claim none of my own.. Is that what you claim or do you claim more and better righteousness than me because I committed adultery over 10 years ago.. All you prove in your continued barking about it is that you deny that Jesus can forgive sin.. I am not concerned about being judge by God as I judge the LDS.. If they have any unconfessed sin in their life. Sin that they have not taking to Jesus. They will have to pay for that sin themselves and the wages of sin, even a small sin, is death.. Spiritual death in the Lake of Fire.. So even that small sin makes them unclean and NO UNCLEAN THING CAN ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.. I hope you have had a good memory and have confessed and repented of ALL your sin, Sin like bearing a false witness of calling someone HYPOCRITE WHO is not deserving of such a ti tle.. IHS jim