Here is news that may have terrible consequences for the LDS church.

[James Banta]

[Erundur;151072]Why, do YOU believe what BY taught?

Yes I believe that is what BY taught.. I don't believe that he was a prophet, I don't believe that he taught the Gospel, nor any part of the Bible.. But I do believe that he taught polygamy was a saving ordinance..

I would be if God commanded it.

It was taught by the prophet commanded by the man that said he had seen God and Jesus.. That is as close as you can get if you believe that Smith ans Young were called by God to lead His Church..

Now you're just lying.

That is something I NEVER DO anymore.. I have told some whoopers in my day but they always hurt me and others.. I will not lie, and I will not be called a liar.. Did you read my post or check out the reference? Could your mind understood it's meaning or are you so blinded by the false teachings of mormonism that you can no longer understand anything that doesn't come from the GAs in Salt Lake? IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Where did I deny Brigham Young said this? You still haven't met the challenge.

Nope you can't read, it is doubtful that you can think.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes I believe that is what BY taught..

Uh oh, did you just answer the question I should have asked? I've been told that's extremely dishonest...

That is something I NEVER DO anymore..

Wait, so you're telling me that you sincerely believe that
1) LDS know better than the Holy Spirit, and
2) Salvation is by polygamy, not by the grace of God though Faith in Jesus?

If you are, I'll retract my accusation.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Nope you can't read, it is doubtful that you can think.. IHS jim

That's okay, I accept your concession.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Actually, pal, when all the opposition has is "denial," why bother? It's useless to beat the senseless as the saying goes.

This person isn't worth our time.. He has no defense for the ANTI BIBLE teaching of mormonism both past and present. He twists what we are saying. He is breaking the rules of the Forum.. Please join me in asking him to leave through our ignoring all his posts.. IHS jim

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Erundur

That's okay, I accept your concession.

Richard does this all the time on CARM, and oceancoast. Ocean is currently banned.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Uh oh, did you just answer the question I should have asked? I've been told that's extremely dishonest...


Wait, so you're telling me that you sincerely believe that
1) LDS know better than the Holy Spirit, and
2) Salvation is by polygamy, not by the grace of God though Faith in Jesus?

If you are, I'll retract my accusation.

Since mormonism teaches in total contradiction to the Bible. Mormonism teaches that "Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and was afterward taken up by the process of resurrection" (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 4, pp. 1670-1671), "Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father"(Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, pp. 724-725). The Holy Spirit though the Apostle Matthew tell us that Mary the mother of Jesus was found to be with Child of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18). But as I said the LDS know better that the Holy Spirit..

BY taught that a man had to be a polygamist at least of heart to gain exaltation (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 269, August 19, 1866). Deny that? Look it up! I am saying just what I said I don't shrink from it.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

That's okay, I accept your concession.

Read it again it says where I got it..

Journal of Discourses 11:268-269
It is the word of the Lord, and I wish to say to you, and all the world, that if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which Abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at least in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which Abraham has obtained.

See it now? Geeese IHS jim

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Since mormonism teaches in total contradiction to the Bible.

That's completely ridiculous.

But as I said the LDS know better that the Holy Spirit..

Okay, so that is your belief. Do you believe us over the Holy Spirit?

BY taught that a man had to be a polygamist at least of heart to gain exaltation (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 269, August 19, 1866). Deny that? Look it up! I am saying just what I said I don't shrink from it..

Why would I deny that? But you didn't answer the question. Do you believe that salvation is by polygamy, not by the grace of God through Faith in Jesus?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Read it again it says where I got it..

Journal of Discourses 11:268-269
It is the word of the Lord, and I wish to say to you, and all the world, that if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which Abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at least in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which Abraham has obtained.

See it now?

Yes, I still see your concession. (Hint: your claim was that I denied BY said this. That's what you need to show.)

Geeese

I saw a lot of geeese on my lunch hour walk along the Jordan River. Duuucks, too.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by James Banta

This person isn't worth our time.. He has no defense for the ANTI BIBLE teaching of mormonism both past and present. He twists what we are saying. He is breaking the rules of the Forum.. Please join me in asking him to leave through our ignoring all his posts.. IHS jim

I know Richard from CARM. Pathetic.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Apologette

I know Richard from CARM. Pathetic.

If that is so he would have had to lie his way back onto Walter Martin. Lying would not be the way to show us how we are the ones who are dishonest.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Yes, I still see your concession. (Hint: your claim was that I denied BY said this. That's what you need to show.)


I saw a lot of geeese on my lunch hour walk along the Jordan River. Duuucks, too.

Journal of Discourses 11:268-269 were the words of BY.. Look here.. http://jod.mrm.org/11/273.. So what is with the denial? Is it that you have decided that being I G N O R A N T of history protects you from having to deal with the lies of mormonism, or is it that you really can't learn these things on your own? IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

That's completely ridiculous.


Okay, so that is your belief. Do you believe us over the Holy Spirit?


Why would I deny that? But you didn't answer the question. Do you believe that salvation is by polygamy, not by the grace of God through Faith in Jesus?

I am a Bible believing Christian so I deny all lies that are part of the teachings of mormonism that contradict the the Bible.. The Bible teaches that Mary was found to be with child of the Holy Ghost. BY contradicted that and that denial has been part of mormon doctrine ever since.. It therefore doesn't matter what the Holy Spirit gave remembrance to the Apostles. They know better than what He gave to the Apostles.. The Holy Spirit was wrong and BY was right. right?

Again the Holy Spirit trough the Apostle Paul taught us "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8-9). And what do I get from LDS when I quote that? DENIAL.. Oh yes they will agree as long as a person is 100% obedient to the Law, that are saved by grace.. But if sin comes into their life then they must repent or be ****ed.. It's like the LDS can't understand what the meaning of Grace..

Yes BY taught that salvation was gained through at least faith in polygamy.. Yes I know that the modern church has abandon Young in a lot of his teachings. But still without the rites of the Temple the fullness of God's salvation, as the LDS believe, is denied to mankind, is it not?.. Full salvation is only achieved through temple marriage.. The grace of God through faith in Jesus has nothing to do with it.. This highest level of LDS salvation was never spoken of by Jesus in the Bible, or by Joseph Smith in his novel the BofM. It was a later invention that fit in nicely to the adulterers Smith walked in from 1831 to the end of his life.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Journal of Discourses 11:268-269

Sorry, I wasn't published in the Journal of Discourses, so I couldn't have denied it there. Keep trying, and your concession stands.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes BY taught

I didn't ask about what BY taught. The question was, do you believe that salvation is by polygamy, not by the grace of God through Faith in Jesus?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

I didn't ask about what BY taught. The question was, do you believe that salvation is by polygamy, not by the grace of God through Faith in Jesus?

Come on you denied that BY taught that polygamy was the means to full mormon salvation.. Now you are wanting to change everything because you were caught in your innate denial..

Because now you want to address a different question unlike you I am not afraid to answer.. I answered this question.. in my last post.. I affirm that we are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus.. By a faith that isn't even ours but a gift of God.. And not of works so that no one can boast.. This is the ONLY way we can gain salvation.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Come on you denied that BY taught that polygamy was the means to full mormon salvation..

Then provide a link to my denial.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Then provide a link to my denial.

Why should we do your research. If you had researched Mormonism in the first place, maybe you wouldn't be an idolater right now!

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Come on you denied that BY taught that polygamy was the means to full mormon salvation.. Now you are wanting to change everything because you were caught in your innate denial..

Because now you want to address a different question unlike you I am not afraid to answer.. I answered this question.. in my last post.. I affirm that we are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus.. By a faith that isn't even ours but a gift of God.. And not of works so that no one can boast.. This is the ONLY way we can gain salvation.. IHS jim

Young did teach that polygamy was needed for full salvation:

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be ****ed," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).