Prayer

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;151109]Yes, you are wrong and I have showed you our scriptures that say as much.

That says what God became God or that God has always been god.. Sorry but your statement could go either way..

And then proceeded to give Peter a revelation (after the death of Christ) concerning what he wanted with His church. But we have talked about this too.

Really was the sheet a new revelation or was God reminding Peter that He had already said they would go and make disciples of all nations (Gentiles) (Matthew 28:19).. There was no new revelation there it was personal revelation to Peter not to the Church.. Jesus had already given that commandment.. As I have shown.. Again it is the truth even under your protest that in these last days God has spoken unto us by his Son, no prophet needed.. Dang Julie you can't seem to find anywhere to stand that supports mormonism..

But I have. What I have learned is that when God does the teaching, we understand the scriptures---he opens them to us and our hearts burn within us as He does (see my scripture in my signature below.) That is my experience. That is truth. As I noted, the Pharisees also studied the scriptures daily---but they missed God as well because they THOUGHT they understood them. To really understand, one must have the double witness of the scriptures AND the spirit. But we have already discussed this as well.

Two men felt that, it was not promised to everyone.. Still I agree with you that God does teach us His word.. That doesn't mean we may set aside any of His word as unture while we concentrate on just a verse here and there.. It all has to be true of none of it is.. So Julie where is it stated that when you hear the scripture that your heart must burn within you.. I have shown you scripture and I can see that your heart doesn't burn over James 2:10. That is scripture as much as Psalm 22 or Isaiah 53 is scripture.. I guess you have selective feelings.. That is ok, just make a decision that you believe God's word, all of it and it doesn't matter what scripture give you an emotional response and which ones don't.. Truth is truth.. You have yet to bring up a scripture that I have denied.. I have 3 that I can think of without even trying that you deny.. If we tried you would most likely have many more Look at Romans 11:6.. If salvation is by grace then it is no more of works... I'll bet you hate that p***age too...

Yes, we have the law (justice) and the atonement--because God knows we will make mistakes. That in no way means we can ignore the law (which also includes the atonement).

:Yes, I know you read it this way to justify your own sin. We have already discussed this as well. I see it simply---all sin will keep us from God---but God does acknowledge some sin as worse then others otherwise there would be no reason to make the comment regarding "greater ****ation" nor this comment:

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

You keep saying that God see one sin as more serious than another.. Yes the Bible teach of a sin unto death.. (1 John 5:16) . That can only be the denial of the Holy Spirit and It does fit that p***age.. There is no p***age I have seen that makes one sin more serious in God's eyes than any other.. No sin except the sin against the Holy Spirit can and will be forgiven.. But You are to young to understand those doctrines.. You took Mark 9:42 out of context.. It is those that believe that when offended cause a person to be better of id a milllstone is hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea.. But It would also be better if any confessed sinner would be so treated than to find themselves in the hand of an angry God.. He that is able to destroy body and soul in the lake of fire.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by James Banta

That says what God became God or that God has always been god.. Sorry but your statement could go either way..

Whoa, look how fast you just changed the subject. Strange, yes--that Christ could be exalted and God the Father put all things under His feet after his death and resurrection, but be part of the Godhead before the world was created. But having been a Mormon, you already know that and as such, any time you state that we do not understand Christ as part of the Godhead from before the earth was created (and then we could go into Christ's very nature as discussed in the scriptures as well)--you are bearing false witness. Something that God does not like and you should know that as well.

Really was the sheet a new revelation or was God reminding Peter that He had said they would go and make disciples of all nations (Gentiles) (Matthew 28:19).. There was no new revelation there it was personal revelation to Peter not to the Church.. Jesus had already given that commandment.. As I have shown.. Again it is the truth even under your protest that in these last days Gid has spoken unto us by his Son.. Dang Julie you can't seem to find anywhere to stand that supports mormonism..

Oh, okay---so what about Christ telling Peter NOT to do that beforehand? How exactly do you disqualify the revelation given to Peter?

And so, if I can show you in revelation that God would teach what he did to Joseph Smith--would you believe it then?

I mean, just as you understand what Christ's goal was and then the subsequent revelation given to Peter to see that goal accomplished--I likewise see the goals stated prior and the revelations given to Joseph Smith just the way God accomplishes his goals. There is no reason then not to believe in revelation given to direct the church AFTER the death of Christ. This is obviously very Biblical.

Two men felt that, it was not promised to everyone.. Still I agree with you that God does teach us His word.. That doesn't men we set any of it aside while we concentrate on just a verse here and there.. It all has to be true of none of it is.. So Julie while is it when you hear the scripture that if we sin we become guilty of all doesn't make your heart burn within you..

Yup, but I have already acknowledged how I understand this and the other scriptures and how they fit together.

That is scripture as much as Psalm 22 or Isaiah is scripture.. I guess you have selective feelings..

No

That is ok, just make a decision that you believe God's word, all of it and it doesn't matter what scripture give you an emotional response and which ones don't.. Truth is truth.. You have yet to bring up a scripture that I have denied.. I have 3 that I can think of without even trying that you deny.. If we tried you would most likely have many more Look at Romans 11:6.. If salvation is by grace then it is no more of works... I'll bet you hate that p***age too... IHS jim

Nope, not at all.

:

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;151113]So you excuse yourself to attack my beliefs on this site because Joseph Smith had it revealed to him that God told him that the churches of the day spoke of Him with their lips but were far from him in their hearts?

Those churches teach the same Gospel that Christian churches today teach.. We all teach from the Bible.. If they were evil in God's sight for teaching from His word so are we! I excuse my attacks on mormonism is mormonism is false in it's teachings.. You have now told me you agree with these..

1. There are more than one God.
2. That God became a God, There was a time when He wasn't God..
3. That other Gods other and God may be formed. They have been in the past they will be in the future..
4. That priesthood has more duties than sacrifice
5. That water has the power to wash away sin.

I could go on but that should do for now.. Such ANTI Biblical doctrines as these need to be attacked for what they are FALSE.. Those that teach then to those who are saved should have an anchor fixed around their neck and be drowned in the sea.

Well, I thought the one I gave you about greater ****ation was a good one as well as what Christ said about who offends a little one....and as I stated, I know that all sin removes us from God, but clearly, he sees that some cause more hurt---just as we see and punishes accordingly.

Jesus said it would be better for them.. It would be better for any unconfessed sinner.. No matter what sin it is.. That doesn't mean they all don't get the same terrible punishment.. The Lake of Fire..
Already have.

Oh, trust me, I do not disagree with God at all. Once again--you and I read this differently--and you never acknowledge the scriptures I give, but I acknowledge yours.

Yes you do.I have shown you that you disagree when David tells us that against God and God Only have I sinned.. You disagree that No God was formed before God was God and that none will ever be formed in the future. You disagree that if we keep the whole law and offend in just one point we are guilty of all.. I'll bet you also disagree that it is by God's grace we are saved through Faith and NOT of Works.. I'll bet you disagree that salvation is either by grace or by works but not both.. I have shown you where all these doctrines are biblical and you seem to be ignoring them.. On the other hand you provide the p***age about the little one that believe in him as proof that some get a harsher judgment when there is nothing in that that say murder or lying isn't as serious..

Then why ignore God's way of seeing it?

Show me where using the Bible as your authority.. So far you haven't done so and I have shown you how I believe all of it even LDS proof text, Because most of the time they are out of context meaning something much different than what mormonism says they mean.. I know my place before God, and I know what He says about all mankind and their place.. I see God's way, I just don't see mormonism measuring up to God's requirements.. I ignore nothing you seem to do so quite a bit..

We are not speaking of confession or not confession---we are speaking of how God sees sin.

I though we agreed on how God sees sin.. How He deals with it seems to be a different matter.. If we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.. That is what confession does..

To me, he recognizes that all removes us from God. I also recognize that God recognizes that some are more hurtful to others.

What can separate us from the Love of God.. Do you know the p***age? Let me ask you this.. What can separate you from the love of your children? If they say they hate you and march off and become involved in terrible sin, will you not still be there for then when they realize their error and come running home to you? Well you reject them when they do? I have had to face that in the lives on my son and daughter.. They found a welcome a hug and a home still here for them.. I am not a better father than God and I have His ***urance that I am Hos child:

John 1:12-13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And THIS is exactly my point James. Do you see that in order to understand this verse---YOU just changed it!!!!

Nope I deny changing anything, That was cut and pasted directly from the Bible..

Maybe because I just pulled it from Matthew, not Mark---but now that you mention it---

In Mark, Christ basically says---if you believe in me and offend a little child, it is better for a milstone to be put around your neck and you were flung into the sea.

Now that is a change.. Unless you can show in the original language that ever scholar that has translated this p***age has said that it is the sinner that is the believer you are not on solid ground AGAIN..

New International Version
If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea

New American Standard Bible
Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.

Not one agrees with you.. Have you the same education in the ancient languages as these scholars? You are way outcl***ed..

id that it is the little one that believe in me
That statement just disqualifies in a nutshell that whole speech you made about just believing in Christ and it is not about the dos and don'ts. Wow---Christ just said--IF YOU BELIEVE IN ME AND DO THIS, YOU ARE BETTER OFF IN THE DEPTHS OF THE SEA!!!!

Nope He didn't say that. You have it backward.. Read above..

Hence, if you say you believe and do such a thing--watch out!

In other words, as I have contended all along, you are teaching false doctrine that is not congruent with what the Bible teaches.

And I still hold to that you have read it wrong.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by James Banta

1. There are more than one God.
2. That God became a God, There was a time when He wasn't God..
3. That other Gods other and God may be formed. They have been in the past they will be in the future..
4. That priesthood has more duties than sacrifice
5. That water has the power to wash away sin.

I could go on but that should do for now.. Such ANTI Biblical doctrines as these need to be attacked for what they are FALSE.. Those that teach then to those who are saved should have an anchor fixed around their neck and be drowned in the sea.

James, we could go through each scripture to explain each point---and how you misrepresent, but once again, you are changing the subject.

Jesus said it would be better for them.. It would be better for any unconfessed sinner.. No matter what sin it is.. That doesn't mean they all don't get the same terrible punishment.. The Lake of Fire..

"greater ****ation" James...some of your fellow Christians on this site have already recognized different rewards and punishments.

Yes you do.I have shown you that you disagree when David tells us that against God and God Only have I sinned..

I read this differently than you as well. I read this to show that David understands his sin was so offensive, that it is only God who can help him. In his day, animal sacrifices were used to represent the atonement---David realized that his sin was so offensive that even the high priest could not help mediate this sin with God.

Show me where using the Bible as your authority..

God is the authority.

I though we agreed on how God sees sin.. How He deals with it seems to be a different matter.. If we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.. That is what confession does..

Okay, yes--how he deals with sin---I see how he deals with it differently than you. Yes, once repented, the sin is gone from God---but as we can see with David---(and yourself) the repentance process recognizes the seriousness of the sin.

What can separate us from the Love of God.. Do you know the p***age? Let me ask you this.. What can separate you from the love of your children? If they say they hate you and march off and become involved in terrible sin, will you not still be there for then when they realize their error and come running home to you? Well you reject them when they do? I have had to face that in the lives on my son and daughter.. They found a welcome a hug and a home still here for them.. I am not a better father than God and I have His ***urance that I am Hos child:

Yup, I agree.

Nope I deny changing anything, That was cut and pasted directly from the Bible..

And here, you are directly lying: this was NOT cut and paste. I even put in red what you changed.

Show me the scripture that says this:

It would be better for all sinners not just the offenders of children if a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea..

You can see that you changed the scripture to make it say what you want, right?

Now that is a change.. Unless you can show in the original language that ever scholar that has translated this p***age has said that it is the sinner that is the believer you are not on solid ground AGAIN..

Wait---what happened to the line you said I removed?
[

B]New International Version
If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea

New American Standard Bible
Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea. [/B]

Not one agrees with you.. Have you the same education in the ancient languages as these scholars? You are way outcl***ed..

Is your claim now that the point I left out and you pointed out to me, well, that was the correct way in the first place? It was you who noted that in Mark is said "who believe in me"

King James: And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Are you saying this part of the Bible is wrong?

And I still hold to that you have read it wrong.. IHS jim

Do you forget you were the one who blasted me for leaving that part out (when in reality, I had quoted Matthew)

Are you saying that this part of the Bible was NOT TRANSLATED correctly in the KJV?

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;151117] James, we could go through each scripture to explain each point---and how you misrepresent, but once again, you are changing the subject.

The subject here was my prayer.. It has been changed so completely that it really doesn't matter..

"greater ****ation" James...some of your fellow Christians on this site have already recognized different rewards and punishments.

And they have given clear Biblical reference for those statement? I want each one of them to tell me what is a "Greater ****ation" than the Lake of Fire.. As I asked before some people just have to dangle their feet? Others have to wade in waist deep ? But the real bad people have to be pushed of a high dive?

I read this differently than you as well. I read this to show that David understands his sin was so offensive, that it is only God who can help him. In his day, animal sacrifices were used to represent the atonement---David realized that his sin was so offensive that even the high priest could not help mediate this sin with God.

So you admit to adding your own thoughts to what the Bible clearly says.. And you will still tell me that I deny it because I believe what it says.. Does that make sense? It doesn't to me.. I refuse to add what I want the Bible to say to what is taught. That is the main problem with mormon hermeneutics. They have a feeling that a p***age means something totally different than what is taught in plain open language.. Believing God isn't brain surgery. All you have to do is read what He has told us in His word and believe what He is saying.. Whether you see it as the truth or Not.. Having faith in Him is believing more than believing He is; is is believing Him like you disbelieve me..

I will say there are some p***age that must be included in the whole of the Bible to understand them.. And then there are p***ages like John 3:16 that tell the whole story of Jesus and his purpose in this world.. Why He came and what he wants of us..

God is the authority.

Yes He is, not some priesthood.. He is the Power and the Glory.. To Him ever knees bows and ever tongues confess. Not to some priesthood.. God is the Authority. There is no Greater Power.. He is the Greater Power..

Okay, yes--how he deals with sin---I see how he deals with it differently than you. Yes, once repented, the sin is gone from God---but as we can see with David---(and yourself) the repentance process recognizes the seriousness of the sin.

I see how God through His word tells us that He deals with Sin.. He is very clear that without the shedding of blood there is no remission.. It doesn't matter how serious you believe the sin to be to gain forgiveness there MUST BE BLOOD.. It is your choice, He offered His blood you can access by His grace through faith or by shedding your own..

I HAVE SAID THAT THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES.. Those are not covered by the blood of Jesus.. The worse we (Mankind) see the sin the more sever the consequences.. My were server and I still have to deal with a few.. They won't p*** from me in this life.. But before God I will stand in the righteousness of His Son and hear the words all Christians long for.. "Well done my good and faithful servant enter into the grace of your Lord"..

*And here, you are directly lying: this was NOT cut and paste. I even put in red what you changed.*

I will admit I didn't go bank and check to make sure that it wasn't one I copyed directly but I am taking back by the word lying.. I can show that such a statement is made in the p***age AND THAT THE FULL MEANING AND INTENT OF THE P***AGE IS PRESENT IN MY WORDING.. I have already dismissed one poster this week for making this very persional attack on me.. I can live without your posts. If that is what you are trying to tell me here.. Julie I don't ever accuse you of breaking the ten commandments.. DON'T do so to me.. Bearing a false witness is a willing attempt to deceive.. This was too easily checked. It was a small error not a lie.. Would you like to rephrase or should we just break contact.. Oh remember if that happends I am free to say what ever I am thinkung about you at the time.. This is clear slander and I won't stand for it.. Am I mad YES! I will give you the same chance I offered that ever ever his name was,, NEVER do this again.. I don't believe you have any intention to apologize..

*Show me the scripture that says this:

You can see that you changed the scripture to make it say what you want, right?*

Lets quote the verse here and now and you show me how I didn't represent it correctly..

*Mark 9:42
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.*

The littles one are those that believe.. The offender is the one who would be better off if he were cast into the sea.. Now I will make my point again.. All sinners would be better off in a millstone about their neck and be cast into the sea rather than to be cast into the lake of fire..

*Is your claim now that the point I left out and you pointed out to me, well, that was the correct way in the first place? It was you who noted that in Mark is said "who believe in me"*

Yes "who believe is me" but it wasn't the offender but the little one that are the believers..

*Are you saying this part of the Bible is wrong?*

Not at all, I am saying you are..

*Do you forget you were the one who blasted me for leaving that part out (when in reality, I had quoted Matthew)*

Matthew reads:

*Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.*

It still says *Which believe in me*.. I could call yiou on that for lying but I know you made a mistake so I won't be so hateful as to say that to you..

*Are you saying that this part of the Bible was NOT TRANSLATED correctly in the KJV?*

Not at all, but that is just what I hear you saying... IHS jim

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

This whole site is designed, by those who call themselves Christians, to mock other faiths who often believe in Christ---but not exactly as you do. So, you come here to mock others and then you see those you mock as heart-hearted and mocking you when they defend their faith?

Well, if you feel that way, maybe you shouldn't post here. Bye.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Well, if you feel that way, maybe you shouldn't post here. Bye.

I post only to defend my faith.

If I ever talk to you about your faith, it is only to ask you why you criticize my beliefs when the Bible states...._____________(fill in the blank).

[James Banta]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;151115] you are bearing false witness. [QUOTE]


I warned you and you had to keep being my judge.. I have judged Smith for lying and you said no he didn't.. I showed how Smith spoke out of both sides of his mouth first condemning David for polygamy and then praising him for that same polygamy.. You have attacked me for the last time for being liar. You don't seem to even know that mormonism teaches that Jesus is our spirit brother and he was born as a spirit child the same as it teaches we were.. That He became a God sometime after his plan was accepted at the great council by the Father..He was not always God.. You again were lying you just are terrible unstudied.. Now I will take you off response list for continuing to call me a liar.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

BigJulie, like that other "poster" has decided to be my judge and continue to call me a liar in the main channel.. I won't address her any longer as she has only her warped ideas of what she want to hear from me instead of sharing and listening.. Sge seems to thing that LDS doctrine teaches that Jesus has been God as long as the father has.. I am not even sure if she believes that but I was called a liar because I tried to tell her that the mormons Jesus was not a God in the preexistence before his plan of salvation was accepted over Lucifer's plan by the mormon God at the great council..

I was trying to point to Isaiah 43:10 and show her that before our God there was no God formed, and there would be none formed after Him.. According to that p***age a doctrine that Jesus became a God after the Father was already God is a false teaching. He could not have become even a god.. No God would be formed before God was God and none will be formed after He was God.. The teaching that he did is a clear lie of mormonism.. Julie is no longer welcome to post to me.. I ask for your support against her.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

First off James, this response was really hard to follow. It seems you have your responses and mine all together.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by James Banta

And they have given clear Biblical reference for those statement? I want each one of them to tell me what is a "Greater ****ation" than the Lake of Fire..

If this is the "greater ****ation"---than there must be a lesser ****ation. Christ used the term greater. I have asked you before, did he misuse the word?

So you admit to adding your own thoughts to what the Bible clearly says..

Nope, just explaining how I understand what David was saying. If you don't think about what you read, well--there is no sense reading it...as it would just go into an empty vacuum.

Yes He is, not some priesthood.. He is the Power and the Glory.. To Him ever knees bows and ever tongues confess. Not to some priesthood.. God is the Authority. There is no Greater Power.. He is the Greater Power

.. I agree--so why do you ask me if I use the authority of the Bible? I see God as the authority. Therefore, He is the "power" behind understanding His book.

I see how God through His word tells us that He deals with Sin.. He is very clear that without the shedding of blood there is no remission.. It doesn't matter how serious you believe the sin to be to gain forgiveness there MUST BE BLOOD.. It is your choice, He offered His blood you can access by His grace through faith or by shedding your own..

shedding your own??? what???

I HAVE SAID THAT THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES.. Those are not covered by the blood of Jesus.. The worse we (Mankind) see the sin the more sever the consequences.. My were server and I still have to deal with a few.. They won't p*** from me in this life.. But before God I will stand in the righteousness of His Son and hear the words all Christians long for.. "Well done my good and faithful servant enter into the grace of your Lord"..

But does God give different consequences ---as with "greater" ****ation? Or not?

*And here, you are directly lying: this was NOT cut and paste. I even put in red what you changed.*

I will admit I didn't go bank and check to make sure that it wasn't one I copyed directly but I am taking back by the word lying.. I can show that such a statement is made in the p***age AND THAT THE FULL MEANING AND INTENT OF THE P***AGE IS PRESENT IN MY WORDING..

Okay, let me get this straight. I told you that you added to the verse. You said NO WAY--you cut and pasted it. I said that was an outright lie---And now you say: you "didn't go back and check that it wasn't one you directly copied" but the full meaning was present? You added words. That is all there is to it. You should have known that scripture well enough to know that those words were not in it. Did you not expect me to know it well enough to know your words were not in it. And now you say, oops--it was mistake? Okay. I can accept that.

I have already dismissed one poster this week for making this very persional attack on me.. I can live without your posts. If that is what you are trying to tell me here.. Julie I don't ever accuse you of breaking the ten commandments.. DON'T do so to me.. Bearing a false witness is a willing attempt to deceive..

You did lie---that is what it is called when you do not tell the truth. You can call it a mistake, but what you said was not true. You can say you misspoke, but you said it so forcefully when I said that you added words--you said, no way, you cut and paste it. So, I answered forcefully back. You said cut and paste. I said, no way!!! I was right.

This was too easily checked. It was a small error not a lie..

You missed adding a few extra words? To me that changed the scripture, the meaning of the scripture to what you wanted it to say. It was my point that it was YOU who changed the scripture from what it said to fit your meaning. Can you imagine my surprise when you attacked me saying---how dare I--you cut and pasted it. Yeah right.

Would you like to rephrase or should we just break contact.. Oh remember if that happends I am free to say what ever I am thinkung about you at the time.. This is clear slander and I won't stand for it..

Sorry, you said something that wasn't true. Just admit you said something that wasn't true, even if you didn't mean to and move on. Stop attacking the messenger for pointing out you put something untrue.

Am I mad YES! I will give you the same chance I offered that ever ever his name was,, NEVER do this again.. I don't believe you have any intention to apologize..

You misspoke. Admit it. Move on. Stop with the offensive.

*
Lets quote the verse here and now and you show me how I didn't represent it correctly..

*Mark 9:42
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.*

The littles one are those that believe.. The offender is the one who would be better off if he were cast into the sea.. Now I will make my point again.. All sinners would be better off in a millstone about their neck and be cast into the sea rather than to be cast into the lake of fire..

Now you are really confusing me. So, now you are saying that God qualifies a lesser punishment for offenders of small children....what???

Yes "who believe is me" but it wasn't the offender but the little one that are the believers..

Oh you see it as the little ones who believe in Christ, not the offenders. I thought Christ had a small child come to him.....so, you see this as referring to the child.

It still says *Which believe in me*.. I could call you on that for lying but I know you made a mistake so I won't be so hateful as to say that to you..

But if you pointed out that I left out words and I came back at you with, no way, I cut and pasted it...you would have a case. The "untruth" was not the scripture, but your claim to how you came to post it. I did not make the claim that I cut and paste it. If I did, as noted, you would have a case that I lied.

Not at all, but that is just what I hear you saying... IHS jim

I can see what you are saying with this verse, but I have a hard time believing that God would qualify the children as believers as if somehow he would be qualifying one child to the next when it comes to offending them.

I just talked this over with my son to see how he reads it. He said, he sees it as Christ speaking about the children he was with right then---that came so easily to him. So, yes--he agrees. They are the ones who believe in Christ.

Interesting point though, he was speaking to his disciples.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I warned you and you had to keep being my judge.. I have judged Smith for lying and you said no he didn't.. I showed how Smith spoke out of both sides of his mouth first condemning David for polygamy and then praising him for that same polygamy.. You have attacked me for the last time for being liar. You don't seem to even know that mormonism teaches that Jesus is our spirit brother and he was born as a spirit child the same as it teaches we were.. That He became a God sometime after his plan was accepted at the great council by the Father..He was not always God.. You again were lying youjust are terrible unstudied.. Now I will take you off response list for continuing to call me a liar.. IHS jim

James, here are a couple of your statements;

I guess I could be wrong but I thought you told me that you believe that God has been God from everlasting to everlasting.. Not became a God but always was God? I am sorry if I branded you as a Bible believer..

And:

That God became a God, There was a time when He wasn't God..

And now:

That He became a God sometime after his plan was accepted at the great council by the Father..He was not always God

When you were a Mormon, did you ever read the scriptures on "intelligences"--and what about these verses I gave you in the past? Maybe I should just recognize that you were terribly understudied and so now so easily believe what is told to you about what we believe without being able to put it into the greater whole. (And therefore, instead of out and out lying, you are just misrepresenting something you don't understand.)

From the Book of Mormon
[18] For he is the same yesterday, to-day, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

From the D&C
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

As you have called me a liar---should I go on some rampage and threaten to not talk to you and insist you apologize, etc. etc. etc. as you do? (See what I highlighted in red from your post.)

I just gave you a few scriptures--btw, I am not understudied.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

BigJulie, like that other "poster" has decided to be my judge and continue to call me a liar in the main channel.. I won't address her any longer as she has only her warped ideas of what she want to hear from me instead of sharing and listening.. Sge seems to thing that LDS doctrine teaches that Jesus has been God as long as the father has.. I am not even sure if she believes that but I was called a liar because I tried to tell her that the mormons Jesus was not a God in the preexistence before his plan of salvation was accepted over Lucifer's plan by the mormon God at the great council..

I was trying to point to Isaiah 43:10 and show her that before our God there was no God formed, and there would be none formed after Him.. According to that p***age a doctrine that Jesus became a God after the Father was already God is a false teaching. He could not have become even a god.. No God would be formed before God was God and none will be formed after He was God.. The teaching that he did is a clear lie of mormonism.. Julie is no longer welcome to post to me.. I ask for your support against her.. IHS jim

How about if I point out Genesis that teaches us that we are made in God's likeness and image.


How about if I talk to others to try to get a message to you while stating that I am ignoring you? You know, that kind of reminds me of the stuff I saw in elementary and junior high school.

Umm, as far as this:

I tried to tell her that the mormons Jesus was not a God in the preexistence before his plan of salvation was accepted over Lucifer's plan by the mormon God at the great council..

This kind of flies in the face of the scriptures I gave you---boy, straight from our scriptures. But I know you prefer to go to non-scriptural references to try to show us what we believe and ignore putting that in the greater context of the scriptures.

Hmmm, let's see if I can give an example of what this would be like.

Let's use the example of the elephant. The guy who sees the tusk or the guy who sees the tail, but they are all blind and so they don't see the elephant. You point to the tail and think you see the elephant. And when I point to the elephant, you say--but look, this tail is what an elephant is. I say, you are missing the bigger picture.

And because I have pointed out these scriptures to you in the past, you either misrepresent us because you choose to ignore our scriptures or you forget our scriptures or both.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Neverending---this reminded me so much of the Rameumptom prayer.

Thank you so much we are chosen and saved and that we are NOT like those other poor ****ed souls--etc, etc.

Here is something you said to me:



You know---the most amazing thing to me is that I have had the spirit bear witness to me of the truthfulness of the gospel. I have had it bear witness to me of that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I have lived by the truths I have received and I am happy. I see the good it brings into my life. I have peace in my life. I come here only to defend against accusations made against my beliefs.

I have read, heard, seen all of your criticisms of my beliefs and to me, it is the equivalent of 200 year old gossip. A version of "he-said, she-said" long ago.

It helps me understand more so what Christ said:


If I was to do what you do and let my own experiences "wax gross" and instead try to discern truth by dwelling on what other people say or think--then I too would believe as you do. But I have witnessed with my own eyes and heard with my own ears MY LIFE today---MY EXPERIENCES today--I have understood with my heart!

And because of that, I know what you witness and preach is not true. It is false. And it is why you get on here and get so upset when someone even questions your own experiences (and call me a witch). If you can't talk about your own life and your own experiences and must dwell on your perceived flaws of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young---you have nothing but chaff ****ing in the wind.

You who have sat in judgment of my husband for over a week with constantly bringing up a sin he committed over 14 years ago, don't be throwing stones when YOU live in a gl*** house!!! As for, dwelling on my perceived flaws of J. Smith and BY, Julie, believe me, they are NOT perceived but come straight from your own Church History, J. Smith's own history, sermons BY made while standing in the Tabernacle and those sermons always printed in the Deseret News and compiled into, "The Journal of Discourses." Why do you fight so hard against the truth! You want to deny your own Church History? Why would your leaders print untruths?
You continued talking about James and his sin which I had asked you to stop doing because it was causing me to remember the incident that I had put behind me; and I have every reason to get angry for you gave no thought to my feelings!! It was none of your business but OH....you wanted to make it your business. There are NO sins greater in God's eye, except that of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Even murders can be forgiven if they repent and are sincere in doing so.
Now answer me a question. Why can I have the same experiences you've had, where I've have felt the Holy Spirit so strong, have had prayers answered, been reading my scriptures and have had a WOW, moment when what I had just read opened my mind to a whole new understanding which I had never known before? Why as I was sitting in the temple to be married, I heard a voice three times telling me to, "get up! leave, you do not belong here!" Then feeling as if someone was trying to pull me out of my seat? Do evil spirits dwell in your temples and that was what I heard and felt that day? Had it not been for people like you and I would still be trapped in Mormonism for the things I experienced growing up and after marrying James, opened my eyes and caused me to question. After that it was all down hill and I soon knew I had been lied to my entire life! Don't tell me that you are the only one who has the right to experience anything! You get angry as well Julie! You did yesterday by calling James a liar! It is clear why you did that, because you can't stand hearing the truth. Believe me when I tell you it's not fun realizing your leaders are liars, men who's only thoughts were chasing after other men's wives, committing crimes against our country, crimes against people in their own city, (the destruction of the Expositor, ordered by J. Smith and his gang of 50) ordering the murder of innocent people who only wanted to p*** through Utah to get to California, should I go on? I think you have said quite enough for your heart is hardened against the true and living God, not your god who was once a man, (I'm talking about God the Father). Oh, and if this is the case and your god progressed to his lofty position, who does he worship? It is a pyramid scheme, climbing ever higher and higher til you reach the very top? Who then is the top god, and shouldn't we be worshipping him?
Go ahead and knock my prayer for it only shows me how little you really know about me. My prayer was sincere for I know and have experienced the loss of friends and the relationship I had with my family because of leaving your church but God is always there, he has never left my side for a moment. Even during some very dark days dealing with James health problems where I felt abandoned, God was there, it was me who abandoned Him. I know the hurt and the anger when discovering the truth that the whole idea of Mormonism was based on lies. A man who wanted power and control over people. A man who gave little thought to his own wife going after other women and even married women, sending their husband's on missions so he could entice their wives while these men were gone. How sick is that? My prayers continue for all LDS that the Holy Spirit will begin to work in their hearts and minds so they can know the truth. "For the truth shall set you free". (John 8:23)

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

You who have sat in judgment of my husband for over a week with constantly bringing up a sin he committed over 14 years ago, don't be throwing stones when YOU live in a gl*** house!!! As for, dwelling on my perceived flaws of J. Smith and BY, Julie, believe me, they are NOT perceived but come straight from your own Church History, J. Smith's own history, sermons BY made while standing in the Tabernacle and those sermons always printed in the Deseret News and compiled into, "The Journal of Discourses." Why do you fight so hard against the truth! You want to deny your own Church History? Why would your leaders print untruths?
You continued talking about James and his sin which I had asked you to stop doing because it was causing me to remember the incident that I had put behind me; and I have every reason to get angry for you gave no thought to my feelings!! It was none of your business but OH....you wanted to make it your business. There are NO sins greater in God's eye, except that of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Even murders can be forgiven if they repent and are sincere in doing so.
Now answer me a question. Why can I have the same experiences you've had, where I've have felt the Holy Spirit so strong, have had prayers answered, been reading my scriptures and have had a WOW, moment when what I had just read opened my mind to a whole new understanding which I had never known before? Why as I was sitting in the temple to be married, I heard a voice three times telling me to, "get up! leave, you do not belong here!" Then feeling as if someone was trying to pull me out of my seat? Do evil spirits dwell in your temples and that was what I heard and felt that day? Had it not been for people like you and I would still be trapped in Mormonism for the things I experienced growing up and after marrying James, opened my eyes and caused me to question. After that it was all down hill and I soon knew I had been lied to my entire life! Don't tell me that you are the only one who has the right to experience anything! You get angry as well Julie! You did yesterday by calling James a liar! It is clear why you did that, because you can't stand hearing the truth. Believe me when I tell you it's not fun realizing your leaders are liars, men who's only thoughts were chasing after other men's wives, committing crimes against our country, crimes against people in their own city, (the destruction of the Expositor, ordered by J. Smith and his gang of 50) ordering the murder of innocent people who only wanted to p*** through Utah to get to California, should I go on? I think you have said quite enough for your heart is hardened against the true and living God, not your god who was once a man, (I'm talking about God the Father). Oh, and if this is the case and your god progressed to his lofty position, who does he worship? It is a pyramid scheme, climbing ever higher and higher til you reach the very top? Who then is the top god, and shouldn't we be worshipping him?
Go ahead and knock my prayer for it only shows me how little you really know about me. My prayer was sincere for I know and have experienced the loss of friends and the relationship I had with my family because of leaving your church but God is always there, he has never left my side for a moment. Even during some very dark days dealing with James health problems where I felt abandoned, God was there, it was me who abandoned Him. I know the hurt and the anger when discovering the truth that the whole idea of Mormonism was based on lies. A man who wanted power and control over people. A man who gave little thought to his own wife going after other women and even married women, sending their husband's on missions so he could entice their wives while these men were gone. How sick is that? My prayers continue for all LDS that the Holy Spirit will begin to work in their hearts and minds so they can know the truth. "For the truth shall set you free". (John 8:23)

Well, your prayers are being answered. Last night, I had a discussion with my son. He said---sow seeds where they can be reaped Mom. He recognized my desire to share the gospel. He shared is own experiences sharing the gospel.

If I sit in judgment of your husband, it is for what he does today on this thread---not what he did 14 years ago. He doesn't tell the full truth about what we believe. He doesn't look to our scriptures ignoring them for pieces of our history that do not show fully what we believe. He bears false witness against us. He should know better.

I know the truth---and the truth has set me free---and because my son helped me see the truth more clearly,

I am free from this site.

Good luck Neverending---may you see the truth that division and criticizing others destroys not only the lives you try to "improve", but I am sure your own as well. Poison does more to destroy the vile it is stored than on that which it is poured.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

This whole site is designed, by those who call themselves Christians, to mock other faiths who often believe in Christ---but not exactly as you do. So, you come here to mock others and then you see those you mock as heart-hearted and mocking you when they defend their faith?

Speaking of MOCKING!LUCIFER:: If you will preach your orthodox religion to these people, and convert them, I will pay you well.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I will do my best.

Where the Heck do you find these quotes? Just shut up if you plan to try and get away with this ****!

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Well, you... prayers are being answered. Last night, I had a discussion with my son. He said---sow seeds where they can be reaped Mom. He recognized my desire to share the gospel. He shared is own experiences sharing the gospel.

If I sit in judgment of your husband, it is for what he does today on this thread---not what he did 14 years ago. He doesn't tell the full truth about what we believe. He doesn't look to our scriptures ignoring them for pieces of our history that do not show fully what we believe. He bears false witness against us. He should know better.

I know the truth---and the truth has set me free---and because my son helped me see the truth more clearly,

I am free from this site.

Good luck Neverending---may you see the truth that division and criticizing others destroys not only the lives you try to "improve", but I am sure your own as well. Poison does more to destroy the vile it is stored than on that which it is poured.

Well.....you have declared yourself judge over this site? You continue to judge my husband and now me. I have stated and will continue to state that what you believe is a lie. It is all based on lies from a deranged man who's only plan for his life was to control people and make a name for himself. Hey, he certainly made a name for himself but he is known through history as a deceiver and a traitor to this country. You want to believe in lies, that is your right to do so as long as Obama allows it. There will come a time when you won't be able to admit you believe in anything unless it is Islam. You think my life is destroyed.....again you are sooooo wrong and you know nothing about me or my life. You want to go around wearing blinders, that again is your right. Those of us who discovered the falsehoods of Mormonism have been set free and found God's real love and salvation. I don't need to feel I have a heavy weight around my neck and have other looking down their noses at me. You see, you judge your very own members and it is due to your doctrines that perpetrate such feelings. Hey, I go to church every sunday but Bro. and Sister Jones go once in awhile. I go to Stake Temple Day but I never see the Jones. Does this ring a bell? So, you mistreat your own don't you? Not surprising that you judge a non-member even more harshly.
There is nothing more to say to you. Have a good life but remember eternity is forever, this life but a blink of God's eye. My greatest wish is for my family and friends to be saved, unfortunately that is not possible for my parents or brother who have p***ed on and will stand before God and be judged. Their funerals were devastating knowing what the scriptures say about those who have never accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior....the true Christ of course.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Speaking of MOCKING!LUCIFER:: If you will preach your orthodox religion to these people, and convert them, I will pay you well.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I will do my best.

Where the Heck do you find these quotes? Just shut up if you plan to try and get away with this ****!

The whole Mormon system is built on lies and nourished by lies.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Apologette

The whole Mormon system is built on lies and nourished by lies.

The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul has commanded saying:

2 Corinthians 13:1
In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Was the First Vision established by two or three witnesses? NO! And yet the LDS church teaches that "The truthfulness of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the truthfulness of the First Vision..." (http://www.lds.org/topics/joseph-smi...e+first+vision). One of the most important events in mormonism is based on the testimony of one man, the man who made the claim.. Sound like even that foundational tale was just that a tale.. It is not established by two or three witnesses. Since there are so many different stories of this "NON" event and that fact that no other person can testify that this event actually took place it is NOT established. Since the story so widely differs from what we know of God though His word, we must see this story as just another lie told by Joseph Smith.. IHS jim

[TrueBlue?]

Originally Posted by neverending

And may we approach the lost with love and overlook any anger they may project onto us. May we most of all, have patience, for having once been a Mormon, to change a way of thinking that one had for most of their life is not easy. To realize that lies have been told to you all your life is very upsetting and yes, it is understandable that people will lash out. God bless those who hear our message of hope that they will not be afraid.

Sounds like someone should read the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by TrueBlue?

Sounds like someone should read the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee

What, Joseph Smith jr. Didn't pay is taxes?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by TrueBlue?

Sounds like someone should read the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee

How is NE saying that she had done this or that as to make herself great in her own eyes or in God's? She said that changing the mind set of the LDS (WHICH IS WORKS BASED), to see that they have been lied to can make them angry. Then she asked God to embolden those that hear the message of life we have given here again and again.. I guess you never read the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee to see what it is really teaching.. NE never said she was better then you or anyone.. She asked for Christians to remember a time before God saved them, how they were changed. She told us that many of us were upset and lashed out against mormonism. There is no cross teaching in what she was saying found in the parable.. IHS jim

[neverending]

Originally Posted by TrueBlue?

Sounds like someone should read the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee

Your comment doesn't make sense. My comment was a prayer for a dear, Christian friend who has posted here and needing God's healing. I was once a Mormon. When I discovered that for all my life I had been lied to, I got angry, I think most honest people would react as I did. How is that being compared to this parable that I am very familiar with.....stop ***uming, you don't even know me. How was I putting myself above someone? This needs a very good explanation.