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Thread: Is Joseph Smith the Reason for the Season?????

  1. #1
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    Default Is Joseph Smith the Reason for the Season?????

    I posted this elsewhere and wanted to share it here as well:

    This I found interesting (or I should say, sickening):

    Mormon Church Sunday meetings often emphasize Smith instead of Jesus even during Christmas

    "During PEC [Mormon local leadership meeting] the next Sunday, the bishop brought up the Christmas program
    and said he wanted to change to focus of it just a little. Based on the
    look on the two counselors faces, I could tell they already knew the
    outcome and I could tell which counselor was going to get his way. The
    bishop said that he still wanted the choir to perform their normal
    repertoire of Christmas hymns but that he wanted the main speaker to take a
    different approach to Christmas. He wanted the usual presentation by the
    ward choir-which is great because my ward has a talented choir director and
    she always presents a great Christmas program. But then he stated that he
    wanted the main speaker to talk about Joseph Smith and the wonderful
    contribution he made to humanity."


    Ron, the bishop and his counselor's desire to honor Smith rather than
    Christ during the Christmas season at least has some precedent from a
    high-ranking Mormon leader. Gordon B. Hinckley's December 1997 First
    Presidency Message in the "Ensign" magazine followed along the same lines:
    First Presidency Message
    A Season for Gra***ude

    By President Gordon B. Hinckley


    Gordon B. Hinckley, “A Season for Gra***ude,” Ensign, Dec. 1997, 2
    This is a season for giving and a time for gra***ude. We remember with
    appreciation the birth of the Prophet Joseph Smith, which is celebrated this
    same month of December, two days before Christmas.


    How great indeed is our debt to him. His life began in Vermont and ended in
    Illinois, and marvelous were the things that happened between that simple
    beginning and tragic ending. It was he who brought us a true knowledge of
    God, the Eternal Father, and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. During the
    short time of his great vision he learned more concerning the nature of Deity
    than all of those who through centuries had argued the matter in learned
    councils and scholarly forums. He brought us the marvelous Book of Mormon as
    another witness for the living reality of the Son of God. To him, from those
    who held it anciently, came the priesthood, the power, the gift, the
    authority, the keys to speak and act in the name of God. He gave us the
    organization of the Church and its great and sacred mission. Through him were
    restored the keys of the holy temples, that men and women might enter into
    eternal covenants with God and that the great work for the dead might be
    accomplished to open the way for eternal blessings.

    Great is his glory and endless his priesthood. Ever and ever the keys he will
    hold. Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the
    prophets of old. (“Praise to the Man,” Hymns, no. 27)

    He was the instrument in the hands of the Almighty. He was the servant acting
    under the direction of the Lord Jesus Christ in bringing to p*** this great
    latter-day work.

    We stand in reverence before him. He is the great prophet of this
    dispensation. He stands at the head of this great and mighty work which is
    spreading across the earth. He is our prophet, our revelator, our seer, our
    friend. Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the
    celebration of Christmas. God be thanked for the Prophet Joseph."

    So, at least we know that the at***ude of the bishop and his counselor is
    shared by Gordon B. Hinckley.

    Randy J." (source, ex-Mormon org)
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  2. #2
    RealFakeHair
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    I posted this elsewhere and wanted to share it here as well:

    This I found interesting (or I should say, sickening):

    Mormon Church Sunday meetings often emphasize Smith instead of Jesus even during Christmas

    "During PEC [Mormon local leadership meeting] the next Sunday, the bishop brought up the Christmas program
    and said he wanted to change to focus of it just a little. Based on the
    look on the two counselors faces, I could tell they already knew the
    outcome and I could tell which counselor was going to get his way. The
    bishop said that he still wanted the choir to perform their normal
    repertoire of Christmas hymns but that he wanted the main speaker to take a
    different approach to Christmas. He wanted the usual presentation by the
    ward choir-which is great because my ward has a talented choir director and
    she always presents a great Christmas program. But then he stated that he
    wanted the main speaker to talk about Joseph Smith and the wonderful
    contribution he made to humanity."


    Ron, the bishop and his counselor's desire to honor Smith rather than
    Christ during the Christmas season at least has some precedent from a
    high-ranking Mormon leader. Gordon B. Hinckley's December 1997 First
    Presidency Message in the "Ensign" magazine followed along the same lines:
    First Presidency Message
    A Season for Gra***ude

    By President Gordon B. Hinckley


    Gordon B. Hinckley, “A Season for Gra***ude,” Ensign, Dec. 1997, 2
    This is a season for giving and a time for gra***ude. We remember with
    appreciation the birth of the Prophet Joseph Smith, which is celebrated this
    same month of December, two days before Christmas.


    How great indeed is our debt to him. His life began in Vermont and ended in
    Illinois, and marvelous were the things that happened between that simple
    beginning and tragic ending. It was he who brought us a true knowledge of
    God, the Eternal Father, and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. During the
    short time of his great vision he learned more concerning the nature of Deity
    than all of those who through centuries had argued the matter in learned
    councils and scholarly forums. He brought us the marvelous Book of Mormon as
    another witness for the living reality of the Son of God. To him, from those
    who held it anciently, came the priesthood, the power, the gift, the
    authority, the keys to speak and act in the name of God. He gave us the
    organization of the Church and its great and sacred mission. Through him were
    restored the keys of the holy temples, that men and women might enter into
    eternal covenants with God and that the great work for the dead might be
    accomplished to open the way for eternal blessings.

    Great is his glory and endless his priesthood. Ever and ever the keys he will
    hold. Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the
    prophets of old. (“Praise to the Man,” Hymns, no. 27)

    He was the instrument in the hands of the Almighty. He was the servant acting
    under the direction of the Lord Jesus Christ in bringing to p*** this great
    latter-day work.

    We stand in reverence before him. He is the great prophet of this
    dispensation. He stands at the head of this great and mighty work which is
    spreading across the earth. He is our prophet, our revelator, our seer, our
    friend. Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the
    celebration of Christmas. God be thanked for the Prophet Joseph."

    So, at least we know that the at***ude of the bishop and his counselor is
    shared by Gordon B. Hinckley.

    Randy J." (source, ex-Mormon org)
    Over the years I can only remember one missionary in whom I can in contact with who could give an equal heart felt testimony of both Joseph Smith jr. and the mormon jesus. To this day I still from time to time pray for him to come to give a single testimony of the real Jesus of the Holy Bible.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    Over the years I can only remember one missionary in whom I can in contact with who could give an equal heart felt testimony of both Joseph Smith jr. and the mormon jesus. To this day I still from time to time pray for him to come to give a single testimony of the real Jesus of the Holy Bible.
    Yes, it's sad. I had a Mormon missionary tell me he had a vision of Jesus, followed by one of Joseph Smith. Talk about demonic!
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    This I found interesting (or I should say, sickening):

    Mormon Church Sunday meetings often emphasize Smith instead of Jesus even during Christmas
    Actually, you should say "completely fabricated".

    Someone who was interested in truth might actually look up the article from the December 1997 Ensign and discover that Randy J of ex-Mormon org (guffaw) only quoted a small portion, conveniently omitting the other 80% of the article which was about . . . Jesus Christ. Oops!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Actually, you should say "completely fabricated".

    Someone who was interested in truth might actually look up the article from the December 1997 Ensign and discover that Randy J of ex-Mormon org (guffaw) only quoted a small portion, conveniently omitting the other 80% of the article which was about . . . Jesus Christ. Oops!
    It's quite obvious that your cult's central figure is Joseph Smith, and Jesus plays a peripheral part in Mormonism.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    It's quite obvious that your cult's central figure is Joseph Smith, and Jesus plays a peripheral part in Mormonism.
    Only to dishonest anti-Mormons.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Only to dishonest anti-Mormons.
    Well, how about Satan. Do you believe he's a real god?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Well, how about Satan. Do you believe he's a real god?
    Thank you for conceding that your previous statement was false. As for your current question, I'll say, "The Bible says it; I believe it; that settles it!"

  9. #9
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Well, how about Satan. Do you believe he's a real god?
    He is called the god of the world in 2 Corinthians 4:4. Does that mean he created it? I don't think so.. He is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. In John 12:31 He is the refereed to as "ruler of this world". That should give us some clues as to whether Satan is really a God or not. Since the fall of Adam the world has been an evil place (Gen 3:17-19).. This is the world Satan wanted for us, a world cursed by God, a world of sin and death.. This then is the world that cultist demand is good? This is the world that God calls believers out of; to abandon it in favor living in God's Kingdom.. We know that this world we will have tribulation: but be of good cheer; our LORD has overcome the world. In saying that the God of this world has been put down and Jesus is God and Lord of all.. IHS jim

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