Utah, Gone the Way of the World

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by neverending

This is all you can say? Still waiting for my apology. And my advise for you is to take your head out of the sand and do some research. Being ignorant of what is going on in this country is the reason we are stuck with Obama and his lies and fraud. You think he won the election fair and square? Do you really believe he was born in Hawaii? Why was the only person who was around when Obama might have been born in Hawaii, killed in a small plane crash just before Christmas. She was the only one aboard that died. Why have two individuals who knew Obama during college and when he was living in Chicago found dead, killed execution style within one month of each other? The one was a known gay man who was the choir director for the church Obama attended. Seems to convenient to me as these crimes have no been solved.
Now, why hasn't the LDS Church said anything about all the marriages for same sex couples that took place last week. Some of those people had to be LDS. dberrie said, "they might be excommunicated." Might? Guess whenever I post something, you avoid reading it.

My comment was directed at Jim, to which you are replying.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

Being cute are we?

Many would say that I'm cute.. Some would call me ugly.. What I have said here stands.. IHS jim

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

My comment was directed at Jim, to which you are replying.

Look, you post here on a public forum so anyone can make a comment. You want to tell Jim something in private, then you'll need to send him a message. GEESH! From what I have been reading from you these past few days, I can see a man who truly is in need of being educated.
How about I don't comment to you anymore.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by neverending

Papa,
I sure hate people accusing me of something that I've not done or said. Please show me where I said I hated gays. I even shared with you about my brother who was gay and the close relationship we had, how is that hating gays? For a month my brother lived with Jim and I after he got Bells Palsy and couldn't even stand up, he had to crawl to get to the bathroom and afterwards, he would throw up due to severe nausea. I waited on him hand and foot. I even helped with getting him bathed one day. I got him a urinal to use like what a man is given when in the hospital so if during the night he needed to pee he could use that and not worry about having to crawl to the bathroom. I emptied that for him daily. Now tell me if that isn't love? I also have a very dear friend and old co-worker who is gay and lives with his partner and has for 27 years. I've helped him as well going so far as to pay for him to have a walk-in tub so he could bathe without worry of falling. I didn't have to do that for him but since we both worked together in a Long Term Facility, I couldn't bear the thought of him having to go to one. Again, is that not love?
Papa, to make such statements about a person when you really know nothing about them is wrong and bearing false witness. You owe me an apology.

A lady in our ward, who is a friend and was a great RS president, got Bell's Palsy some years ago, and it really messed her up for a while. I feel sorry for anyone who gets it.

As for excommunicating any of the gay couples who just got married-- if they were LDS, I'd bet there will be consequences, but not necessarily excommunication in every case because certain individual circumstances are considered, on a case by case basis.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Mormons have no salvation, ...

Is that because "Jesus didn't die for Mormons" ?

As for the JBS, I agree with some of their statements, but they do seem a little extremist in some areas, such as "Fluoride in our water is a Commie plot to poison us and make us so retarded that they can take over the USA with no resistance."

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by neverending

Look, you post here on a public forum so anyone can make a comment. You want to tell Jim something in private, then you'll need to send him a message. GEESH! From what I have been reading from you these past few days, I can see a man who truly is in need of being educated.
How about I don't comment to you anymore.

I sores that neither of you are not allowed here?

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

A lady in our ward, who is a friend and was a great RS president, got Bell's Palsy some years ago, and it really messed her up for a while. I feel sorry for anyone who gets it.

As for excommunicating any of the gay couples who just got married-- if they were LDS, I'd bet there will be consequences, but not necessarily excommunication in every case because certain individual circumstances are considered, on a case by case basis.

Also unless a member comes in and tell the Bishop of their transgression, no action is taken. Unless the sin is very much in the press. I once sat on a Church counsel about someone being gay...but he was ex'ed for stealing Church funds.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

Also unless a member comes in and tell the Bishop of their transgression, no action is taken. Unless the sin is very much in the press. I once sat on a Church counsel about someone being gay...but he was ex'ed for stealing Church funds.

This is interesting, that your church felt that stealing was more of a sin then being gay. Maybe this poor individual didn't act on his/her attraction to their same sex but still, is the thoughts not a sin as well?

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

I sores that neither of you are not allowed here?

Papa, this one sentence made no sense. Would you like to explain it for me? Maybe I am being a bit dense but again this made no sense at all.

[neverending]

UPDATE! WE JUST HEARD THAT UTAH WAS GIVEN A STAY. That now means our Attorney General will be very busy putting together the briefs that are needed to fight this Federal Court for what the majority of Utahns want. We already had an Amendment that 66% of Utahns voted for stating that marriage is between one man and one woman. May that law stand.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

Also unless a member comes in and tell the Bishop of their transgression, no action is taken. Unless the sin is very much in the press. I once sat on a Church counsel about someone being gay...but he was ex'ed for stealing Church funds.

That is a good point.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by neverending

This is interesting, that your church felt that stealing was more of a sin then being gay. Maybe this poor individual didn't act on his/her attraction to their same sex but still, is the thoughts not a sin as well?

So you think all churches should excommunicate all members who think gay thoughts, and who think about stealing? How many members will be left in the churches of Christendom, after you're done?

[neverending]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

That is a good point.

According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right? So, if someone is thinking evil thoughts shouldn't that person take that to their Bishop? After all, isn't he a judge in Israel and isn't he going to be able to counsel that person? As far as I'm concerned, the only one who I need to go to is God and of course anyone I have offended. Seems J. Smith took the idea from the Catholics, only Mormons don't need to do 10 hail Mary's etc. to be forgiven.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by neverending

According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right? So, if someone is thinking evil thoughts shouldn't that person take that to their Bishop? After all, isn't he a judge in Israel and isn't he going to be able to counsel that person? As far as I'm concerned, the only one who I need to go to is God and of course anyone I have offended. Seems J. Smith took the idea from the Catholics, only Mormons don't need to do 10 hail Mary's etc. to be forgiven.

Mormonism and Romanism are two peas in a pod!

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by neverending

According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right?

WRONG. You are making it very hard to believe that you really were ever LDS.

So, if someone is thinking evil thoughts shouldn't that person take that to their Bishop?

No, God, and bishops, don't expect everyone to take every bad thought they have to their bishop every time they have such thoughts. If they did, the bishop would be spending every minute of every day hearing people's thoughts.

Are you SURE you used to be LDS?

[neverending]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

WRONG. You are making it very hard to believe that you really were ever LDS.


No, God, and bishops, don't expect everyone to take every bad thought they have to their bishop every time they have such thoughts. If they did, the bishop would be spending every minute of every day hearing people's thoughts.

Are you SURE you used to be LDS?

Doesn't look like you understood what I was saying. If, a person is having evil thoughts, shouldn't that person go to their Bishop and be counseled? That is what I was saying, not that every person who has an evil thought should go running to their Bishop because you and I both know that men especially have evil thoughts many times a day. But, didn't Christ say, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28) Sorry I didn't make my comment more plain. With what Christ told the mul***ude, our thoughts are evil and that is sin even if we don't give into those thoughts. Some people can get obsessed with evil thoughts and isn't it then that a Mormon should go to their Bishop? This is what I should have stated to begin with.

As for me having been LDS....you can think what you want. I was born and raised in your faith, married in the Cardston, Alberta, Canada temple on Sept. 1, 1971 to James Banta. I held many church positions the highest being the Primary Secretary of the Branch we were members of in Grand Forks, ND. We lived there while James served our country in the Air Force. I also taught the Beehive cl*** in Mutual, taught Sunday School, taught Primary and of course was a Visiting Teacher for the Relief Society. My father was a temple worker in the Salt Lake Temple for seven years before he p***ed away. He and my mother also were Extraction Missionaries as well. Out of my siblings, I was the only one married in the temple. My oldest brother was gay and never married, my other brother stopped going to church when he was 17, got his girlfriend pregnant and ran to Las Vegas to get married. He still is not an active member and from the few conversations I've had with him, he doesn't believe in anything. So, NRA, believe what you want. Also know it has been over 33 years since I left your church and since that time, I've seen some major changes to your ordinances, things that were never to be changed along with many changes to the BoM.

[nrajeffreturns]

Quoting you:

"According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right?"

There is no simpler way to answer that than to say "No. That is not right."

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Quoting you:

"According to you and how things are done in your church, every sin has to be brought to your Bishop, right?"

There is no simpler way to answer that than to say "No. That is not right."

Jeff please understand.. NE wasn't saying that in LDS doctrine that all sin must be taking to the Bishop.. She was saying that if you are struggling with a sin whether is is one that they consider large or small they should take it to their Bishop for support in overcoming it.. So what is so much outside LDS doctrine with that you would make any accusation against her? Personally I believe the Bible that teaches that there is ONE MEDIATOR between God and man and that is Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5 ).. Mormonism requires a man get involved in what they call serious sin in order to completely repent. The Bible says Jesus and only Jesus can handle the problem.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Jeff please understand.. NE wasn't saying that in LDS doctrine that all sin must be taking to the Bishop.. She was saying that if you are struggling with a sin whether is is one that they consider large or small they should take it to their Bishop for support in overcoming it.

Okay, I can address that version: That is part of the responsibilities of pastors--to be like shepherds, guiding the sheep they're responsible for, so they safely arrive at their destination.

That includes meeting and praying with the sheep, offering advice, and recommending scriptures to read, to help the sheep who are struggling. And usually, the way the pastor becomes aware that a sheep is struggling, is by the sheep telling him it needs help.

The Bible says Jesus and only Jesus can handle the problem.. IHS jim

The Bible says Jesus, as our intercessor, pleads our case to the Father, but the Bible doesn't say that pastors shouldn't counsel the members who are struggling.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by neverending

This is interesting, that your church felt that stealing was more of a sin then being gay. Maybe this poor individual didn't act on his/her attraction to their same sex but still, is the thoughts not a sin as well?

Maybe they also think that wearing more than one earring in an ear is the ultimate sin! Lying isn't very high on their "sin" list - Joe Smith did it all the time and got away with it - and the Mormons here are so conditioned that they believe all the Satanic drivel that fell from his lips!