Where is the SALT of mormonism?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by neverending

Please show me where James made this comment:

Wow, seriously? You realize I was quoting Wikipedia, not James, don't you?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by neverending

You are a broken record and you make no sense.

I'm sorry if my post went over your head.

WHO is conceding here?

You are. When you respond to me without addressing my point at all, I can only ***ume that you can't refute my point, and therefore my point is correct.

You are stuck on this idea with everyone!

Everyone keeps conceding to me!

Look, no one is conceding anything, that is in your own imagination.

Then I look forward to your substantive responses.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

I'm sorry if my post went over your head.


You are. When you respond to me without addressing my point at all, I can only ***ume that you can't refute my point, and therefore my point is correct.


Everyone keeps conceding to me!


Then I look forward to your substantive responses.

Who is conceding? Your posts are answered so by just telling us that you don't see the answers maybe the answer are too much for your unregenerate heart to understand. In your own word I say "I'm sorry if my posts went over your head."

I have shown you in the word of one of your own prophets that aligning with the liberals democrats is wrong. I have shown you where the state legislature is over 80% LDS. I have asked you how such men could lay down their religion just because they enter the state capital doors.. I am sorry but this is ALL evidence that mormonism is at the root of all the laws, and efforts to keep Utah a GREAT STATE to live and worship "how, were, and what we may".. Yes even their efforts to be accepting is based in the AofF.. It is all about their religion. That is just how mormonism runs Utah.. IHS jim

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Erundur

I'm sorry if my post went over your head.


You are. When you respond to me without addressing my point at all, I can only ***ume that you can't refute my point, and therefore my point is correct.


Everyone keeps conceding to me!


Then I look forward to your substantive responses.

Funny how trying to have a discussion with you is like spitting into the wind. Until you decide to join in with a discussion, you have already conceded and I call you out on it due to your silence. Guess you don't know as much as you think. And you never answered my question, thank you for your concession.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by neverending

Funny how trying to have a discussion with you is like spitting into the wind. Until you decide to join in with a discussion, you have already conceded and I call you out on it due to your silence. Guess you don't know as much as you think. And you never answered my question, thank you for your concession.

Erundur, like every other mormon that has or will ever post here, believes in a man/god who commands and revokes commands as it seems right to his "prophet". The God of the Bible has kept the same commandments since the day the Law was given to Moses. Nothing has ever been revoked.. They have denied right to our faces the teaching of God given in James 2:10.. It is strange that they rely so heavily on James 2 for their teaching on faith and works but turn and deny a teaching abut the seriousness of sin in the same context.. I have explained to them that true faith brings us to not show practicality, to cloth the naked, and feed the hungry. We believe all the Bible, the mormons see it as a Chinese restaurant menu. One from column A, two fro column B, but taking the whole of it's teachings as truth? Nope!

Even when they refuse to discuss their beliefs (and they are different for ever mormon) we know what they believe.. We know that they believe that Go is a glorified man. That they believe they will follow him into exaltation and have eternal increase, making sexual behavior the main goal of their faith.. We can praise God we are no longer caught in that sex trap but look to Jesus and a deep relationship with Him as His child as our ultimate goal.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by neverending

Yes, it is a real shame that the LDS members can't think for themselves. It's also a shame to see that one man here must have had a terrible childhood since they constantly have to keep reminding themselves that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Poor guy, he never got any pats on the back growing up, not that that doesn't surprise me knowing all the pressures an LDS father puts on their sons.

It's been three days now since I pointed out the strong connection between mormonism and the government of Utah.. I guess Erundur has conceded the point, having no argument for the logic of our position.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Wow, seriously? You realize I was quoting Wikipedia, not James, don't you?

Which has not one thing to do with whether a person is a Christian or a tare among the wheat.. You can point to people who are acting the Christian part all day, but if they are not truly of the Church their fraud comes out eventually. Not all church people are Christians.. No one here is here to defend protestantism. We are here to defend the Church and Her, rule of Law, the Bible.. You have tried to twist that into a defense of an ISM.. That was a sneaky attempt to win an argument, one that doesn't exist.. Protestantism is as man made as mormonism. Can there be real Christians in protestant churches and still adhere to that churches beliefs? Yes! Can there be real Christians in the LDS church and still adhere to that it's beliefs? NO WAY! That is the main difference between a protestant church and the LDS church. membership in neither of them guarantees membership in the one true Church that only the Lord can add a person to (Acts 2:47) IHS jim

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I have shown you in the word of one of your own prophets that aligning with the liberals democrats is wrong.

No you haven't. You have claimed that one of my own prophets said it would be difficult.

I have asked you how such men could lay down their religion just because they enter the state capital doors..

No you haven't.

I am sorry but this is ALL evidence that mormonism is at the root of all the laws

No it isn't. This conclusion doesn't follow from any of your premises.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

It's been three days now since I pointed out the strong connection between mormonism and the government of Utah.. I guess Erundur has conceded the point, having no argument for the logic of our position..

Oh, is that the criterion you want to use? Okay, make sure you answer every single point I make within three days, or you will be conceding.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Oh, is that the criterion you want to use? Okay, make sure you answer every single point I make within three days, or you will be conceding.

And here you are and still no answer.. What else am I to think.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[Erundur;151370]No you haven't. You have claimed that one of my own prophets said it would be difficult.

So difficult that it is impossible to point to one faithful LDS that is a liberal democrat..

No you haven't.

If you didn't hear that before, I am asking now..

No it isn't. This conclusion doesn't follow from any of your premises.

I guess your mind is just to thick to see it.. Over 80% of the Utah Legislature is LDS. They don't lay their LDS hearts aside as they enter the Capital to conduct the State's business.. I don't know if you live in Utah or not, I do.. I have spoken with my representative about this point and has told tell me that he votes as he believes is proper for the good of the whole state.. As he also told me that he believes in following the prophet always.. In those two statements all the prophet teaches to be truth are used by every one of the over 80% of the total members of the Utah Legislature. Without thinking too hard anyone can understand that the will and teachings of the President of the LDS church rules the whole of Utah.. Is he unjust? No! He is a good man who believes in freedom. Still His teachings are the springboard of all new Utah Law.. It has been so from the time BY can into the Salt Lake Valley..

The Federal Government has forced Utah to conform to federal laws before.. They are doing so again.. Last time to protect Church property valued at more than $50,000 the doctrine of plural marriage was abandoned and mere temple marriage put in it's place as a saving ordinance.. What will mormonism change this time to protect it's tax exempt status. Maybe soon we will see same sex temple weddings and ****sexual priesthood leaders..

I will continue responding to you if you give up the opinion that you are the only one here with any intelligence, or that everyone who isn't LDS is a liar.. If those words come from you again you won't see me responding to you ever again.. You won't be banned by any moderator but you will be banned from conversations with me.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

So difficult that it is impossible to point to one faithful LDS that is a liberal democrat..

And how would you prove that?

If you didn't hear that before, I am asking now..

And my answer is, I don't know; you'll have to ask the people who do it.

I guess your mind is just to thick to see it..

Or maybe you're just too blinded by your bigotry.

I have spoken with my representative about this point and has told tell me that he votes as he believes is proper for the good of the whole state.. As he also told me that he believes in following the prophet always.. In those two statements all the prophet teaches to be truth are used by every one of the over 80% of the total members of the Utah Legislature. Without thinking too hard anyone can understand that the will and teachings of the President of the LDS church rules the whole of Utah..

Maybe that's the problem. Think a little harder and you'll see that that's just plain nuts.

Maybe soon we will see same sex temple weddings and ****sexual priesthood leaders..

We'll see. Anti-Mormons have been prophesying that for years.

I will continue responding to you if you give up the opinion that you are the only one here with any intelligence, or that everyone who isn't LDS is a liar.. If those words come from you again you won't see me responding to you ever again..

Have those words ever come from me? Seriously.

You won't be banned by any moderator but you will be banned from conversations with me..

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Oh, is that the criterion you want to use? Okay, make sure you answer every single point I make within three days, or you will be conceding.

I'm still waiting to see you say anything in defense of your religion. So, three days, three weeks, months, years, you won't make it. All you know how to do is make sarcastic remarks, not one word to defend anything. You sir have conceded with every post you've made.

[James Banta]

[Erundur;151375]And how would you prove that?

Through the platform of the liberals and the statement of your own prophet..

And my answer is, I don't know; you'll have to ask the people who do it.

I would think you would be better studied before coming here to represent that which you believe to be the truth..

Or maybe you're just too blinded by your bigotry.

It's not me that say he knows more about God and His ways than anyone of any other church.. That must be a profession of mormonism, so either you were one of the kids that ignored what was being taught in Priesthood meetings and Sunday School or you were just what I said about you too thick to allow truth to gain access to your mind..

You call me a bigot for not accepting error? Do you accept that which you believe to be error? How about the Nicene Creed? Are you willing to call your rejection of the truth in it bigotry? You understand you came here on your own, You were not invited here by the owners of this site.. You are just as welcome here as anyone but you are also subject to the same rules.. Here is the truth again.. You are either blind to truth of so thick that you can no longer identify truth.. You could say that say thing about me for holding the Bible to be the ONLY rule and law, the only message I have on how I can gain His salvation.. You can say I am foolish for believing His promises, and I will do the same to you for denying them..

Understand I am not calling you S T U I PI D as I say thick. I am saying that you are congested no path to see truth.. I have never given you a statement of doctrine that I can't support from the Bible. So you are safe.. You deny all the Bible that doesn't fit into doctrines taught by Joseph Smith. Case in point, the 132nd section of the D&C demands that it was a commandment from God for Abraham to take Hagar as a second wife.. That is UNBIBLICAL. No where in the Bible is it taught that God had word one to do with Abraham entering polygamy.. That is just an example of way mormonism twists and thereby denies the word of God.. There are even examples of Smith denying LDS scripture.. But you are to thick to allow these truths to be identified in your mind..

Maybe that's the problem. Think a little harder and you'll see that that's just plain nuts.

What is nuts? The fact that people bring their beliefs with them into such positions, or that there is such a large percentage of LDS among the state's law makers? I personally agree more often with them than not with how the state is run.. I agree with their push to end the federal courts power to make law for the people of Utah. I vote for many members of the LDS church in their desire to take up the duties of making Utah a better place to live.. I wouldn't want the ***.. Hats off to them.. Still the fact that the LDS Church has REAL POLITICAL POWER is not a figment of my imagination.. After all more than 80% of the members of the legislator have promised to FOLLOW THE PROPHET..

We'll see. Anti-Mormons have been prophesying that for years.

You are right we shall see.. Back in the 50's Christians also said that blacks would be given the priesthood and access to the temples.. That happened.. So you are right we shall see..

Have those words ever come from me? Seriously.

Yes, you have called me a liar in reporting to you the words of your prophets. Doctrines that disagree with the teachings of the Bible.. Since you now seem willing to drop the personal attacks and actual discuss the issues I will answer you.. But if you revert, well that will be a way to get ignored..

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

If you can't stand up to my posts that expose the real truth of what mormonism really teaches and how it compares to what the Bible teaches you can ignore me.. I don't attack you personally.. I have never called you a liar, never have I attacked your character.. I will not be doing so. So if you decide to ignore me (and you can if you wish) it will be because like you made clear in you post you just Don't Know how to answer me.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Through the platform of the liberals and the statement of your own prophet..

But what if someone produced a faithful LDS who is a liberal democrat?

It's not me that say he knows more about God and His ways than anyone of any other church..

Then which churches know more about God and his ways than you?

You call me a bigot for not accepting error?

No, I suggested you were engaging in bigotry because you are a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc., which is what the word means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

What is nuts?

The nutty idea that the President of the Church rules Utah.

You are right we shall see.. Back in the 50's Christians also said that blacks would be given the priesthood and access to the temples..

We were saying it earlier than that.

Yes

Then give me a link.

If you can't stand up to my posts that expose the real truth of what mormonism really teaches and how it compares to what the Bible teaches you can ignore me..

Okay, if I ever find a post like that I'll consider ignoring you.

I don't attack you personally.. I have never called you a liar, never have I attacked your character..

"I imagine that it is too much to ask for you to follow the rules anyway right?"
"Maybe I am giving you to much credit for even having a little knowledge.."
"Nope you can't read, it is doubtful that you can think.."
"Erundur can't stand to hear the truth. He hate it so much..."
"Do you really think he would be honest enough to look them up for Himself, I doubt it.."
"Like most LDS you wouldn't know the deference between a Christian church and liberal religious club if you life depended on it."
"...maybe the answer are too much for your unregenerate heart to understand."
"I guess your mind is just to thick to see it.."

So if you decide to ignore me (and you can if you wish)

Don't think you're going to get off that easily.

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Jesus calls His children to be the Salt of the earth? What is the purpose of salt? It is to resist corruption.. And yet Utah has been p***ing out marriage licenses to hundreds of Gay couples all over the state.. Well over a thousand "couples" applied for marriages licenses as soon as the court ruled Utah's marriage laws uncons***utional. Thousands, not just a few.. And what does the Gay rights parade in Salt Lake every year say about the level of corruption in the state? Mormonism is NOT SALT.. Think.. When was the last time a openly gay mormon was excommunicated from the LDS church? I will tell you right now such a person wouldn't last a week trying to remain part of a Christian church.. IHS jim

Salt has many functions, it also cure up and preserve us. Many food in many countries their food supplies could be maintained, thus by it we a freed.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

Salt has many functions, it also cure up and preserve us. Many food in many countries their food supplies could be maintained, thus by it we a freed.

So the Church being called the Salt of the earth has two functions, to preserve and to add savor.. So where are the LDS doing either in the case of Gay marriage being forced on the state?

[Novato]

Originally Posted by James Banta

So the Church being called the Salt of the earth has two functions, to preserve and to add savor.. So where are the LDS doing either in the case of Gay marriage being forced on the state?

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:12)

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Novato

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:12)

Even if a law goes against God's laws? You agree with everything Obama is doing to our nation too? If people followed the Mormon's Article of Faith, we'd still be under English rule wouldn't we? There are certainly laws that we all should obey such as traffic laws, not to steal, or commit murder but considering moral laws, acceptance of ****sexuality is wrong and I for one have had my fill of gays, lesbians bragging about their deviant lifestyle and forcing it on everyone.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Novato

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:12)

Navoto, I am your ruler and king, leave the cult of LDSinc. Now!

[Novato]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Navoto, I am your ruler and king, leave the cult of LDSinc. Now!

So Fake Hair, you would have me abandon the Lord’s Truth for the cult of Trinitarian nonsense. I will leave the readers to decide if the nonsense you seem to believe in makes any sense both logically and scientifically.

The core belief of traditional & Evangelical religion is the Christian Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity is the Christian belief that:
There is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Other ways of referring to the Trinity are the Triune God and the Three-in-One.

The Trinity is a controversial doctrine; many Christians admit they don't understand it, while many more Evangelical Christians don't understand it but think they do.The doctrine of the Trinity is one of the most difficult ideas in Christianity, but it's fundamental to Evangelical Christians because it:

•states what Christians believe God is like and who he is
•plays a central part in Christians' worship of an "unobjectifiable and incomprehensible God"
•emphasises that God is very different from human beings
•reflects the ways Christians believe God encounters them
•is a central element of Christian iden***y
•teaches Christians vital truths about relationship and community
•reveals that God can be seen only as a spiritual experience whose mystery inspires awe and cannot be understood logically.

Unpacking the doctrine:

The idea that there is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit means:
•There is exactly one God
•The Father is God
•The Son is God
•The Holy Spirit is God
•The Father is not the Son
•The Son is not the Holy Spirit
•The Father is not the Holy Spirit

An alternate way of explaining it is:

•There is exactly one God
•There are three really distinct Persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
•Each of the Persons is God

Christianity adopted this complicated idea of God in the 3rd century because it was the only way they could make sense of One God in the context of the events and teaching of the Bible.
The idea of the Trinity does not supersede monotheism; it interprets it, in the light of a specific set of revelatory events and experiences.

[Novato]

I'm sorry the board will not let me fully edit or paste anything anymore.
Novato

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Novato

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:12)

Daniele the prophet was faced with a choice of whether to obey the Law of the king or obey God, He chose the later. This justification using the LDS creed to stake along when it was a fact that mormonism knowingly flaunted the Law to be obedient to polygamy is screaming in my ear right now.. Polygamy to a Christian is not the proper form of marriage being strictly denied to the Elders and deacons of the Church. Then in the USA a Christian was denied by the laws of man and the laws of God for it's leaders to practice polygamy and yet they did so.. Is ****sexuality permitted in the scripture? NO! It doesn't matter how much the state says it is fair, or denying it is evil, God pronounced it as evil.. The state has called good evil, and evil has been called good. A christian can't and shouldn't try to end all the evil in the world, but we should resist it.. That would include working to end abortion, and doing all we can to stop the perversions of the ****sexual.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[Erundur;151392]But what if someone produced a faithful LDS who is a liberal democrat?

Then the words of President Benson would be erred and he would be a false teacher..

Then which churches know more about God and his ways than you?

I don't know any Christian church that does since we share the same information of who and what He is.. It differently isn't mormonism that denies the Biblical teaching of His nature.. It isn't Islam or the eastern religions that all deny the divinity of Jesus.. You tell me..

No, I suggested you were engaging in bigotry because you are a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc., which is what the word means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

If you are teaching here that God is "engaging in bigotry" when He tell us through the Apostle that

1Cor 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

I will glady be seen as the same kind of bigot you must see Him to be..

The nutty idea that the President of the Church rules Utah.

So it's a nutty idea that the 80% of leaders of the State of Utah that are LDS lay their religion aside when they walk into the Capital building. All the time they work there they don't follow their prophet.
President Benson again teaches how a LDS should "Follow the Prophet.. I guess you have never seen His teaching on the subject, Here is a short version:
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the Church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter—temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may be involved in civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the first presidency—follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer. (http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=88)

So even if only 60% of the legislators believed this that would mean that nothing would ever be done in Utah that wasn't the will of the LDS first Presidency. It would mean that Utah is controlled 100% by the LDS church.. And believe me it is!

We were saying it earlier than that.

But most believed it would happen ONLY after all the sons that would have come through righteous Able had been given the priesthood.. That wouldn't have been until the second coming..

Don't think you're going to get off that easily.

Yes I have shown what low esteem I have for you as you came here with a chip on your shoulder..

While I doubted your ability to understand truth or willingness to look up what we teach here and ascribe to your leaders you deny everything and ***ume you have won a point. To ***ume victory you have made personal attacks on others. Here are your attacks..

maybe you're just too blinded by your bigotry.
So you lie.
lie, lie, lie. Just keep lying, and I'll keep calling you on it.
you would try to twist this quote to rationalize your dishonesty
Now you're just lying.

Personally I think we should give up the name calling and stay with the discussion of doctrine.. IHS jim

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Then the words of President Benson would be erred and he would be a false teacher..

They would be if he said that no faithful LDS liberal democrat existed or could ever exist. But he didn't say that, did he?

I don't know any Christian church that does

So you are the one who says he knows more about God and His ways than anyone of any other church after all.

If you are teaching here that God is "engaging in bigotry"

I'm not.

So it's a nutty idea that the 80% of leaders of the State of Utah that are LDS lay their religion aside when they walk into the Capital building.

No, it's a nutty idea that the President of the Church rules Utah.

So even if only 60% of the legislators believed this that would mean that nothing would ever be done in Utah that wasn't the will of the LDS first Presidency.

No it wouldn't. That doesn't follow at all.

It would mean that Utah is controlled 100% by the LDS church.. And believe me it is!

I don't believe you because it clearly isn't.

Yes I have shown what low esteem I have for you as you came here with a chip on your shoulder..

Does that explain why you began insulting me right out of the gate, before I had even spoken to you? No, it doesn't.

Personally I think we should give up the name calling and stay with the discussion of doctrine..

That would be a refreshing change from you.