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Thread: The Trinity Explained for Mormons: White, Martin and MacArthur

  1. #1
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    Default The Trinity Explained for Mormons: White, Martin and MacArthur

    Many Mormons do not understand the primary doctrine of the Christian faith, that is the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Since this central doctrine has been so misrepresented by the cults, I thought it would be interesting to listen to what outstanding Bible teachers have to say about this doctrine:

    First, Dr. James White; the following videos are five lectures on the subject of the Trinity, at college level. If a person has the time and interest, these are invaluable lessons:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XExyXDMhYaU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTG9YJBs8wA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC4L9X9nctk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILssgN_33-0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZU7l_O9dYI

    A single video covering the material more quickly by Dr. Martin, Jill's father, is found here. Notice the diagram used to explain the Trinity is the same used by Dr. White in his video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4AN2hHk7ws

    Dr. MacArthur, further explains the Trinity in this article:

    http://www.gty.org/resources/article...our-triune-god

    I hope these videos and article are helpful to Mormons in understanding the Christian doctrine.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  2. #2
    John T
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Many Mormons do not understand the primary doctrine of the Christian faith, that is the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Since this central doctrine has been so misrepresented by the cults, I thought it would be interesting to listen to what outstanding Bible teachers have to say about this doctrine:

    First, Dr. James White; the following videos are five lectures on the subject of the Trinity, at college level. If a person has the time and interest, these are invaluable lessons:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XExyXDMhYaU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTG9YJBs8wA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC4L9X9nctk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILssgN_33-0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZU7l_O9dYI

    A single video covering the material more quickly by Dr. Martin, Jill's father, is found here. Notice the diagram used to explain the Trinity is the same used by Dr. White in his video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4AN2hHk7ws

    Dr. MacArthur, further explains the Trinity in this article:

    http://www.gty.org/resources/article...our-triune-god

    I hope these videos and article are helpful to Mormons in understanding the Christian doctrine.
    It has been my experience that EVERY cult has SOME part of the Trinity wrong. The heretic Marcion was excommunicated in 144 due to his proto-orthodox Instead of having a tri-unity among the Persons of the God head, Marcion created a dual, and contradictory pair of Gods, one of the Old Testament, and one of the New Testament, Jesus, with Paul being his most prominent Apostle.

    What made Marcion so dangerous is that by taking an approach of using Scriptures to meet his own end, he got to pick and choose, according to his whims what was part of Canon, and what was not Canon. There are several churches and denominations, such as the LDS and the JWs and the "Apostolic churches which are non trinitarians.

    Here is a list of some others: from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1100200AAJHbNJ
    * Doukhobors
    * Jehovah's Witnesses
    * Living Church of God
    * Molokan
    * Monarchianism
    * New Church
    * Non-Trinitarian churches
    * Oneness Pentecostals
    * Polish Brethren
    * Socinianism
    * Swedenborgianism
    * The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    * The Way International

    There are more at the site, I just posted some as a reference.

    What is interesting is the parallel there is with Marcionism to the Socianian churches, who also reject the Trinity:
    .
    the tenets or doctrines of Faustus Socinus, an Italian theologian of the sixteenth century, who denied the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the personality of the Devil, the native and total depravity of man, the vicarious atonement, and the eternity of future punishment. His theory was, that Christ was a man divinely commissioned, who had no existence before he was conceived by the Virgin Mary; that human sin was the imitation of Adam's sin, and that human salvation was the imitation and adoption of Christ's virtue; that the Bible was to be interpreted by human reason; and that its language was metaphorical, and not to be taken literally
    from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1100200AAJHbNJ
    .
    In each of these cases, there is an underlying arrogance that "We know more than others" but the deceived people on those sorts of churches fail to understand that they are bucking the scholarship of 2000 years and going against what the Bible clearly says about the existence of the Trinity.

    If anyone REALLY wants to see how externsive the doctrine is, and is taught in Scripture, I refer them to this list of chapters in the article on Trinity in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE)

    1. The Term "Trinity"

    2. Purely a Revealed Doctrine

    3. No Rational Proof of It

    4. Finds Support in Reason

    5. Not Clearly Revealed in the Old Testament

    6. Prepared for in the Old Testament

    7. Presupposed Rather Than Inculcated in the New Testament

    8. Revealed in Manifestation of Son and Spirit

    9. Implied in the Whole New Testament

    10. Conditions the Whole Teaching of Jesus

    11. Father and Son in Johannine Discourses

    12. Spirit in Johannine Discourses

    13. The Baptismal Formula

    14. Genuineness of Baptismal Formula

    15. Paul's Trinitarianism

    16. Conjunction of the Three in Paul

    17. Trinitarianism of Other New Testament Writers

    18. Variations in Nomenclature

    19. Implications of "Son" and "Spirit"

    20. The Question of Subordination

    21. Witness of the Christian Consciousness

    22. Formulation of the Doctrine
    .
    Anyone wanna discuss that with me?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    It has been my experience that EVERY cult has SOME part of the Trinity wrong. The heretic Marcion was excommunicated in 144 due to his proto-orthodox Instead of having a tri-unity among the Persons of the God head, Marcion created a dual, and contradictory pair of Gods, one of the Old Testament, and one of the New Testament, Jesus, with Paul being his most prominent Apostle.

    What made Marcion so dangerous is that by taking an approach of using Scriptures to meet his own end, he got to pick and choose, according to his whims what was part of Canon, and what was not Canon. There are several churches and denominations, such as the LDS and the JWs and the "Apostolic churches which are non trinitarians.

    Here is a list of some others: from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1100200AAJHbNJ
    * Doukhobors
    * Jehovah's Witnesses
    * Living Church of God
    * Molokan
    * Monarchianism
    * New Church
    * Non-Trinitarian churches
    * Oneness Pentecostals
    * Polish Brethren
    * Socinianism
    * Swedenborgianism
    * The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    * The Way International

    There are more at the site, I just posted some as a reference.

    What is interesting is the parallel there is with Marcionism to the Socianian churches, who also reject the Trinity:
    .
    the tenets or doctrines of Faustus Socinus, an Italian theologian of the sixteenth century, who denied the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the personality of the Devil, the native and total depravity of man, the vicarious atonement, and the eternity of future punishment. His theory was, that Christ was a man divinely commissioned, who had no existence before he was conceived by the Virgin Mary; that human sin was the imitation of Adam's sin, and that human salvation was the imitation and adoption of Christ's virtue; that the Bible was to be interpreted by human reason; and that its language was metaphorical, and not to be taken literally
    from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1100200AAJHbNJ
    .
    In each of these cases, there is an underlying arrogance that "We know more than others" but the deceived people on those sorts of churches fail to understand that they are bucking the scholarship of 2000 years and going against what the Bible clearly says about the existence of the Trinity.

    If anyone REALLY wants to see how externsive the doctrine is, and is taught in Scripture, I refer them to this list of chapters in the article on Trinity in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE)

    1. The Term "Trinity"

    2. Purely a Revealed Doctrine

    3. No Rational Proof of It

    4. Finds Support in Reason

    5. Not Clearly Revealed in the Old Testament

    6. Prepared for in the Old Testament

    7. Presupposed Rather Than Inculcated in the New Testament

    8. Revealed in Manifestation of Son and Spirit

    9. Implied in the Whole New Testament

    10. Conditions the Whole Teaching of Jesus

    11. Father and Son in Johannine Discourses

    12. Spirit in Johannine Discourses

    13. The Baptismal Formula

    14. Genuineness of Baptismal Formula

    15. Paul's Trinitarianism

    16. Conjunction of the Three in Paul

    17. Trinitarianism of Other New Testament Writers

    18. Variations in Nomenclature

    19. Implications of "Son" and "Spirit"

    20. The Question of Subordination

    21. Witness of the Christian Consciousness

    22. Formulation of the Doctrine
    .
    Anyone wanna discuss that with me?
    Thanks for that interesting information, John. I think the Athanasian Creed says it very well - we are neither to Confound the Persons nor Divide the Substance. When either one of those is done, we have heresy. For instance, we are NOT to say that Jesus is God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. For Jesus, the Word, is God the Son, the Word made flesh. God the Father did not take on flesh, but the Son did. Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses) will often mock the Trinity by asking, "did Jesus pray to Himself?" Of course He didn't. There was a subject/object relationship between the Father and Son. To say that Jesus, the Son, is God the Father is to "confound the Persons." However, the Mormons actually "divide the substance" by teaching that there is more than ONE God! The Scriptures are very clear that there is only ONE God, but Joseph Smith was unable to grasp or submit to that biblical truth, and led the Mormons into a division of God's substance which ended up in full-****n polytheism.

    One dangerous movement that began in the ranks of Pentecostalism and caused a split in the ***emblies of God is the Oneness heresy, also called Modalism or Sabellianism. This heresy teaches that there is One God who manifests as One Person who is sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son and sometimes the Holy Spirit. This is also a part of the teaching of Branhamites and Apostolics, many of them out here in the West. They attack the concept of three distinct Persons in the Holy Trinity, and say that Jesus was the Father Incarnate. My late Bible teacher, Walter Bjorck, who worked with Dr. Walter Martin, wrote an article on this Oneness heresy along with Jim Bjornstad. Also, Dr. Martin, Jill's father, can be seen here on the Ankerberg show, explaining why the Modalistic (Oneness, Jesus Only, Sabellian, etc.) view is error:

    http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues...svtrinity.html


    Another article is found at "Let Us Reason," a very good apologetic site: http://www.letusreason.org/Trin6.htm This deals with the issue: "Jesus is Not the Father."

    In today's modern Church we have a real dearth of teaching on doctrine, and many well-meaning Christians fall into error because pastors are remiss in teaching correct doctrine. Thanks for posting the invitation to discuss this issue with you.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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