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Thread: Mormons Embellish Their Membership Numbers!

  1. #1
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    Default Mormons Embellish Their Membership Numbers!

    Here's part of an interesting article (from http://www.religiondispatches.org/ar...not_adding_up/) which destroys the Mormon claim that the cult has 13,000,000 or more members.

    "But new data suggests that Mormonism may no longer be (as it is often described) among the fastest-growing faiths in the United States. Instead, American Mormons appear to be settling into the twenty-first century as a maturing minority having an increasingly hard time holding onto younger members.

    Official LDS Church statistics for 2011 count 6,144,582 Mormons in the United States in 2011, comprising about 2% of the nation’s population. Church statistics also show a 30% membership increase between 1990 and 2008—a rate double general US population growth.

    But recent studies tell a different story—different because whereas LDS Church records count anyone who has ever been baptized, demographers and pollsters count only those who currently identify themselves as Mormon. Those are the parameters for the landmark Trinity College American Religious Identification Survey: a two-decade project that has produced the largest and most accurate database of self-reported religious identification ever compiled, with 100,000 randomly sampled participants. According to Rick Phillips and Ryan Cragun, the authors of a study of Mormons based on ARIS data, self-identified adult Mormons make up not 2% but rather 1.4% of the adult US population—that’s about 4.4 million LDS adults."


    and

    "In fact, additional studies by Cragun and Phillips show that retention rates of young people (young men especially) raised Mormon have dropped substantially in the last decade: from 92.6% in the 1970s–2000s to 64.4% from 2000–2010. Rising rates of disaffiliation go a long way towards explaining the gap between LDS Church records and the ARIS population estimates."

    And here is a quote from a the Mormon Social Science ***ociation:

    “. . .regarding retention rates… the LDS Church does not release this information. But there are ways to estimate this and several researchers have done so, giving us our current best estimates. For instance, Rick Phillips (2006), using census data for a variety of countries, compared the membership information supplied by the LDS Church in its annual almanac to the self-reported membership identifications of people in those countries and found that the LDS Church over-estimated its membership. The actual number of Mormons in those countries ranged from 20% to 70% of what the LDS Church claimed. The major implication of this finding is that retention rates of Mormon converts are fairly low.”

    How do Mormon figures compare with Jehovah's Witnesses? The Witnesses, who only count active "publishers," those who actively distribute Jehovah's Witness literature and are involved in the cult, as having an active membership of 7,782,346. So, one might say the Witnesses have around 3,000,000 more active members than the Mormon cult. (see Wikipedia stats)

    The Witnesses do not count those who are not actively participating in their cult, or "ghost" members, or the total number of those baptized, as do the Mormons. The Mormons cover up their lack of success in growth by counting people who may not have sat in a Mormon chapel in twenty years - just so they have been baptized and have not formally resigned, they are counted. I believe ghost members are counted until age 100, even though they never attend services. This reminds me of the Roman Catholic practice of counting ALL baptized individuals, even thought they may not have darkened the door of a Catholic Church in fifty years. Even if these former Catholics spend every Sunday in a Calvary Chapel, they are still counted as Romans.

    So folks, the Mormon cult is deceptive and super-inflates its numbers to give the impression that it is growing, when in fact, the cult is in decline! It is losing converts in droves because the missionaries are dishonest - they are head hunters, want to get prospects baptized and into the cult a.s.a.p. so that their "mission" is successful. Doctrine is secondary, and many converts are disgusted when they find out the truth about Mormon beliefs and the sordid sexual history of Joseph Smith, which is all over the Internet.

    So, Mormon claims to 13 million members is bogus. The cult is losing members, and the ward door are revolving doors!
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  2. #2
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    Here are a few of the flaws in the OP:

    1. The Church of Jesus Christ is reporting the number of church members; while the ARIS study is reporting the number of self-identified LDS.
    2. The Church of Jesus Christ is reporting US membership; while the ARIS study is reporting adult US membership.

    Comparing the two numbers is invalid because they are measuring different things.

    3. There is no such thing as ghost members; they're inactive or less active. We don't kick people out of the church just because they don't show up for a while. They are reported as members because they are members.

    Claiming the membership figure is inflated because not every member attends church every week is invalid.

  3. #3
    nrajeffreturns
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    Good point, Erundur. Also, the fact that LDS membership as a percentage of U.S. population is down, does NOT necessarily mean that LDS membership is down. U.S. population has increased a lot recently, thanks to Obama's ordering ICE to not enforce our borders, allowing illegals to be part of the population. If that influx of people get counted as part of the population, then if, for example, LDS membership increased 1% at the same time U.S. population increased 5%, then of course the LDS as a percentage of population will be less than it used to be. But that doesn't mean we aren't gaining members.

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    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Here are a few of the flaws in the OP:

    1. The Church of Jesus Christ is reporting the number of church members; while the ARIS study is reporting the number of self-identified LDS.
    2. The Church of Jesus Christ is reporting US membership; while the ARIS study is reporting adult US membership.

    Comparing the two numbers is invalid because they are measuring different things.

    3. There is no such thing as ghost members; they're inactive or less active. We don't kick people out of the church just because they don't show up for a while. They are reported as members because they are members.

    Claiming the membership figure is inflated because not every member attends church every week is invalid.
    For the life of me, who would identify with LDSinc. And the child predator Joseph Smith jr.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    For the life of me, who would identify with LDSinc. And the child predator Joseph Smith jr.?
    Obviously, from the OP, we can see that less and less are identifying with this cultic system - and as they learn about the nefarious lifestyle of Joseph Smith, a child predator as you correctly state, it is quite obvious that the internet has played a big part in informing people about the origins of this impostor "church."
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  6. #6
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Obviously, from the OP, we can see that less and less are identifying with this cultic system - and as they learn about the nefarious lifestyle of Joseph Smith, a child predator as you correctly state, it is quite obvious that the internet has played a big part in informing people about the origins of this impostor "church."
    I remembe way back when I started to investigate The LDSinc. It took weeks and months to get information, are to counter LDSinc. Arguments. Now it only takes seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    I remembe way back when I started to investigate The LDSinc. It took weeks and months to get information, are to counter LDSinc. Arguments. Now it only takes seconds.
    I was actually a teenager when I investigated it. I sent to SLC for information on the group, and they sent me various pamphlets. One was called, "What the Mormons Think of Christ." In that pamphlet I found the following statement: "Christ the Word, the First born, had of course attained unto the status of Godhood while yet in pre-existence." What the Mormons Think of Christ; LDS publication, p.36

    This statement, alone, was a giant turn-off to someone like me raised in creedal Christianity, and believing strongly that Jesus was God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten not made, being of One Substance with the Father.................as the Nicene Creed states. Now, even if I wasn't a committed evangelical Christian at the time, God still used the creeds (which Mormons hate for an obvious reason) to protect me from this Arian, Christ-denying cult.

    In other words, I saw "another Jesus" when I read their pamphlet - even though at that time I didn't even know about Paul's warning.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Good point, Erundur. Also, the fact that LDS membership as a percentage of U.S. population is down, does NOT necessarily mean that LDS membership is down. U.S. population has increased a lot recently, thanks to Obama's ordering ICE to not enforce our borders, allowing illegals to be part of the population. If that influx of people get counted as part of the population, then if, for example, LDS membership increased 1% at the same time U.S. population increased 5%, then of course the LDS as a percentage of population will be less than it used to be. But that doesn't mean we aren't gaining members.
    Very true. It's entirely possible for the number of LDS to increase, while the LDS percentage of the population decreases. It all depends on which group is growing faster.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    For the life of me, who would identify with LDSinc. And the child predator Joseph Smith jr.?
    No idea, but at least 4.4 million US adults identify with the Church of Jesus Christ.

  10. #10
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    I was actually a teenager when I investigated it. I sent to SLC for information on the group, and they sent me various pamphlets. One was called, "What the Mormons Think of Christ." In that pamphlet I found the following statement: "Christ the Word, the First born, had of course attained unto the status of Godhood while yet in pre-existence." What the Mormons Think of Christ; LDS publication, p.36

    This statement, alone, was a giant turn-off to someone like me raised in creedal Christianity, and believing strongly that Jesus was God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten not made, being of One Substance with the Father.................as the Nicene Creed states. Now, even if I wasn't a committed evangelical Christian at the time, God still used the creeds (which Mormons hate for an obvious reason) to protect me from this Arian, Christ-denying cult.

    In other words, I saw "another Jesus" when I read their pamphlet - even though at that time I didn't even know about Paul's warning.
    I remember my first contact with BYU. I asked for information concerining the Book of Mormon. I was wanting to know if there was any proof of it being something other than a novel?
    They respond by telling me to order a book by Dr. Paul Cheesman. In his book he wrote, he believed the Book of Mormon was the greatest archeologist find of all time. Then he said, inorder to believe it you gotta wish it to be true.
    Well the wish part is by invention, but close to what he said anyway.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    I remember my first contact with BYU. I asked for information concerining the Book of Mormon. I was wanting to know if there was any proof of it being something other than a novel?
    They respond by telling me to order a book by Dr. Paul Cheesman. In his book he wrote, he believed the Book of Mormon was the greatest archeologist find of all time. Then he said, inorder to believe it you gotta wish it to be true.
    Well the wish part is by invention, but close to what he said anyway.
    As time goes on, and as archaeology becomes more sophisticated and modern technology is inserted into the mix, there will have to come a time when these Mormon leaders realize that they have a giant problem on their hands - I wonder if they'll simply dismiss the BoM as factual, and start to call it pious writings (myths)? I can foresee this within the next 25 years or so. As the older stalwarts die off and join Joe Smith, the younger fellows may be more open to acknowledging that the book is parabolic.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  12. #12
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    As time goes on, and as archaeology becomes more sophisticated and modern technology is inserted into the mix, there will have to come a time when these Mormon leaders realize that they have a giant problem on their hands - I wonder if they'll simply dismiss the BoM as factual, and start to call it pious writings (myths)? I can foresee this within the next 25 years or so. As the older stalwarts die off and join Joe Smith, the younger fellows may be more open to acknowledging that the book is parabolic.
    One day perhaps the LDSinc. Might do as the7th day adventist did with Ellen G White, admit to the Plagiarism.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    One day perhaps the LDSinc. Might do as the7th day adventist did with Ellen G White, admit to the Plagiarism.
    Interestingly, the SDA is growing at a much faster pace that the static Mormons!
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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