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Thread: When Mormons Accuse Christians of Being Westboro Baptists, Let Them Read This:

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    Default When Mormons Accuse Christians of Being Westboro Baptists, Let Them Read This:

    I put a similar thread up on another site. I'd like to post it here as well. Many times we'll see Mormons trying to compare Evangelical believers with Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church. This may have even happened here on the WM forum. Next time they do that, you can show them this thread:

    When Mormons have s****ed the bottom of their apologetic barrels, which is frequently, they love to attack Evangelical believers by saying they are aligned with the Westboro Baptist Church cult run by Fred Phelps. While such a charge, on the surface, might appear correct because the word "Baptist" occurs in the ***le of Phelp's Church, it is patently false. A little bit of research would have shown that Phelps is just as much of a cult leader as was Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. Just because the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," contains the name of Jesus Christ is meaningless. A quick look at its doctrine demonstrates that it is a Christ-denying Church which is an***hetical to Christianity and demeans Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. It's the same with Phelp's use of the ***le "Baptist" for his Westboro church.

    Let's take a look at Fred Phelps from someone who actually has researched him (Mormons aren't known for outstanding research):


    "Two of his sons, Mark and Nate, insist that the church is actually a carefully planned cult that allows Phelps to see himself as a demigod, wielding absolute control over the lives of his family and congregants, essentially turning them into slaves that he can use for the sole purpose of gratifying his every whim and acting as the structure for his delusion that he is the only righteous man on Earth."

    This is the cl***ic description of a cult leader. In fact, it could just as well be a description of the way Joseph Smith ran his cult. Smith praised those who were his sycophants, but booted out those who dared to challenge his bizarre acts and beliefs, such as Oliver Cowdery and eight of the original "apostles" of his cult. TBM Mormons, today, refuse to acknowledge the sexual stalking and pedophile behavior of their idol, Smith, and some of his followers here have even acknowledged that they would have had no problem turning over their young teenage daughters to him as "plural wives" (as Heber Kimball traded 14 year old Helen in hopes of obtaining exaltation). Fred Phelps does not demand young females for sexual gratification as did Joseph Smith - so on that score Smith's depravity stands alone as a stellar example of cultic sexual deviancy.

    Moving right along:

    "In 1995, Mark Phelps wrote a letter to the people of Topeka to this effect; it was run in the Topeka Capital-Journal. The children’s claim is partially backed up by B.H. McAllister, the Baptist minister who ordained Phelps. McAllister said in a 1993 interview that Phelps developed a delusion wherein he was one of the few people on Earth worthy of God’s grace and that everyone else in the world was going to Hell, and that salvation or ****ation could be directly obtained by either aligning with or opposing Phelps. As of 2006, Phelps maintains this belief."

    Cult leaders are often under the delusion that the world revolves around them. Joseph Smith surely saw himself in this way. Can we ever forget how Smith said:

    “I will be a second Mohammed to this generation…whose motto, in treating for peace, was 'the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword,' so shall it be eventually with us, 'Joseph Smith or the Sword.’ ” Hey, what a guy! Delusional to the core, but worshipped by his followers! Right up there with Mohammed! ( By the way, this statement by Joseph Smith is from the sworn affidavit of Thomas B. Marsh on October 24, 1838/ Marsh had been President of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.)

    In the long run, we can see the similarities here between Phelps high opinion of himself, although Smith's obvious malignant narcissism far surp***es anything coming out of Westboro Baptist. Just look at the weird, self-worshipping, hyper-bizarre comments Joseph Smith made about himself:


    "...if any man preach any other Gospel than that which I have preached, he shall be cursed; "
    (Joseph Smith, Jr., The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 366)
    (Also found in History of the Church, volume 6, page 365)



    And we all recall how Joseph Smith saw his own person surp***ing that of Jesus Christ:

    “Come on! ye persecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet... When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.”
    (Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, volume 6, pages 408-409)


    Wow! Fred Phelps can't compare with these claims by Joseph Smith whose autolatry has surp***ed even that of David Koresh (who said he was the Lamb of God) and Jim Jones (of Kool Aid fame). Yet Mormons want us to believe that Joseph Smith was constantly on his spiritual phone in contact with "heavenly father" receiving instructions on all matters pertaining to human life!

    Fred Phelps has been accused of antisemitism, which is often a hallmark of cultic systems of the Aryan Brotherhood stripe. For instance, he had this to say about Wesley Clark and his "boss", John Kerry:

    “ His Christ-rejecting, God-hating Jew blood bubbled to the surface. Yes, like his boss [John] Kerry, Clark is a Jew….That these two ****s are Jews would not matter—except when they ask for supreme political power & spit in the Face of God,

    As most people know, Evangelical Christians have a real love for the Jewish people, considering them the "chosen people" of God, and ministering the Gospel of Christ to them as often as they are able to do so! With Paul, we long for their conversion to Jesus Christ Who, Himself, was born a Jew.

    But Phelp's anti-semitism is no worse than Joseph Smith's bigotry. Smith taught that dark skin was a sign of sin and that blacks carry the "mark of Cain" (which is their darker skin). Brigham Young elaborated on Smith's views to such an extent that he is an infamous bigot! Further, Joseph Smith said that "some old Jew" altered the Bible, which is laughable since it was Smith, himself, who produced an altered Biblical text that people laugh at today, and which Utah Mormons shun! So, what's the difference, folks between Phelp's racist views and those of Smith? Nothing!

    So, in summary, Fred Phelps soteriological views place him squarely outside of orthodox Christianity. Christians believe that it is faith in Jesus Christ, not Jesus Christ PLUS an alignment with Phelps and his teachings, which saves. That type of teaching makes the Westboro Baptist Church a man-centered cult, not part of evangelical Christianity despite Mormon claims to the contrary (in their pathetic attempt to attack those who follow Jesus).

    As far as Joseph Smith is concerned, following Smith does not save anybody, and in fact, places them far outside of the Body of Christ. Joseph Smith was a delusional cult leader who practiced autolatry. Mormons have Joseph Smith as the centerpiece of the their belief system, but their idol has cracked clay feet (not to mention a toxic tongue) and is crumbling right before their eyes as the Internet does its *** of exposing Smith for all the world to see! In desperation, Mormons make all kinds of hideous claims about Christians, but in the end, their rancid words condemn themselves!

    (all info. regarding Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist from 'Fredphelps.com)
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  2. #2
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Many times we'll see Mormons trying to compare Evangelical believers with Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church.
    I think if you check, you'll see that many more times, we'll see anti-Mormons trying to compare LDS believers with Warren Jeffs and his polygamist Fundamentalist LDS Church--and the antis had been trying these comparisons first.

    (hypocrisy)

    Cult leaders are often under the delusion that the world revolves around them. Joseph Smith surely saw himself in this way.
    Funny how he never insisted the church be named after him. Instead he claimed that it was revealed to him that the church should be named after Jesus. By way of contrast, when we look at "real" Christianity, what do we see? St. Whatshisname's LUTHERAN church, the Such-n-such ANGLICAN church, etc. Named after humans and places. No mention of Jesus in the name. So "popular" Christianity revolves around WHO, again?

    Can we ever forget how Smith said
    We COULD forget, if you'd quit bringing it up.

    Fred Phelps has been accused of antisemitism, which is often a hallmark of cultic systems of the Aryan Brotherhood stripe.
    What a coincidence--Martin Luther has been accused of antisemitism, too! I wonder if there's a connection between the Reformation and the Westboros...

    So, in summary, Fred Phelps soteriological views place him squarely outside of orthodox Christianity.
    Calvinistic soteriology places Calvinists outside the orthodoxy (Calvinists comprise less than 5% of Christians, which means that non-Calvinism is the orthodoxy). So Calvinists aren't Christians, using your reasoning.

    Christians believe that it is faith in Jesus Christ, not Jesus Christ PLUS an alignment with Phelps and his teachings, which saves.
    If faith in Christ is all you need to be a Christian, then the Westboros have all that's needed to be Christians. If bigots who have faith in Christ aren't Christians, then Martin Luther wasn't a Christian. And if the Reformation was founded by a non-Christian, what does that say about the Reformation and all the churches that sprang from it?

    Some anti-LDS are famous for taking an isolated case they feel to be bizarre--such as the FLDS--and saying "Look at the fruits of Mormonism." Using their logic, we should look at the Westboros and say "Look at the fruits of Trinitarianism and/or Calvinism."

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    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it be great if everyone just held up Jesus as the standard and acted the way He did?

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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Wouldn't it be great if everyone just held up Jesus as the standard and acted the way He did?
    Which Jesus are we typing about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    Which Jesus are we typing about?
    You know, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace, Savior, Redeemer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    You know, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace, Savior, Redeemer.
    Okay, so not the Jesus who has a brother by the name of Satan?
    The Jesus who's name is not Jehovah, this Jesus is whom we type about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    I think if you check, you'll see that many more times, we'll see anti-Mormons trying to compare LDS believers with Warren Jeffs and his polygamist Fundamentalist LDS Church--and the antis had been trying these comparisons first.

    (hypocrisy)


    Funny how he never insisted the church be named after him. Instead he claimed that it was revealed to him that the church should be named after Jesus. By way of contrast, when we look at "real" Christianity, what do we see? St. Whatshisname's LUTHERAN church, the Such-n-such ANGLICAN church, etc. Named after humans and places. No mention of Jesus in the name. So "popular" Christianity revolves around WHO, again?


    We COULD forget, if you'd quit bringing it up.


    What a coincidence--Martin Luther has been accused of antisemitism, too! I wonder if there's a connection between the Reformation and the Westboros...


    Calvinistic soteriology places Calvinists outside the orthodoxy (Calvinists comprise less than 5% of Christians, which means that non-Calvinism is the orthodoxy). So Calvinists aren't Christians, using your reasoning.


    If faith in Christ is all you need to be a Christian, then the Westboros have all that's needed to be Christians. If bigots who have faith in Christ aren't Christians, then Martin Luther wasn't a Christian. And if the Reformation was founded by a non-Christian, what does that say about the Reformation and all the churches that sprang from it?

    Some anti-LDS are famous for taking an isolated case they feel to be bizarre--such as the FLDS--and saying "Look at the fruits of Mormonism." Using their logic, we should look at the Westboros and say "Look at the fruits of Trinitarianism and/or Calvinism."
    You are the worst abuser, Jeff. You don't understand Christian doctrine at all.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    Okay, so not the Jesus who has a brother by the name of Satan?
    The Jesus who's name is not Jehovah, this Jesus is whom we type about?
    Yes, the One who was with God and was God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Yes, the One who was with God and was God.
    The Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Amen, and amen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    Okay, so not the Jesus who has a brother by the name of Satan?
    The Jesus who's name is not Jehovah, this Jesus is whom we type about?
    The Mormon Jesus is an Impostor. He is not God at all - just the first born spirit baby of their exalted man-god, "heavenly father," who has all the sexual equipment necessary to impregnate a bunch of goddess wives in his "celestial" kingdom somewhere need Starbase Kolob.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    The Mormon Jesus is an Impostor. He is not God at all - just the first born spirit baby of their exalted man-god, "heavenly father," who has all the sexual equipment necessary to impregnate a bunch of goddess wives in his "celestial" kingdom somewhere need Starbase Kolob.
    I wonder if they have a StarBucks on Kolob?

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    I don't post very often in the LDS forum and I come from a catholic background. I can remember when I didn't know the real Jesus Christ, of course in my pride I thought I did. I'm thankful for real followers of Jesus who were patient with my zeal without correct knowledge but it wasn't them who changed my heart it was the Holy Spirit. No one else can do it. Discussions can be informative and constructive but the Holy Spirit convicts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    I wonder if they have a StarBucks on Kolob?
    Well, since Starbucks supports the gay agenda, the Mormon exalted deities might have to get their coffee at Burger King - they have several on Kolob I believe.
    Last edited by Apologette; 01-16-2014 at 01:13 PM.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    I don't post very often in the LDS forum and I come from a catholic background. I can remember when I didn't know the real Jesus Christ, of course in my pride I thought I did. I'm thankful for real followers of Jesus who were patient with my zeal without correct knowledge but it wasn't them who changed my heart it was the Holy Spirit. No one else can do it. Discussions can be informative and constructive but the Holy Spirit convicts.
    Actually, the Roman Catholic Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity and fully God and fully Man. So, doctrinally the Romans have the "real" Jesus. It is the Romans accentuation of the Eucharist, claiming that it is transubstantiated into Christ's Blood and Body, and that only the "appearance" of bread and wine remain, which has the Catholics in bondage. There is a big difference between belief in the "real presence," and the false doctrine of transubstantiation. So you had one leg up on the Mormons, who completely deny all orthodox doctrine regarding the Person of Christ and the Holy Trinity. As far as being sensitive to the TBMs - are you aware of the thousands of people out there who are deceived by the Mormon "sheep in wolves clothing?" That is who you should feel sorry for. Jesus certainly had no empathy for those who went about deceiving people - and Paul said they were under a curse.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Well, since Starbucks supports the gay agenda, the Mormon exalted deities might have to get their coffee at Burger King - they have several of Kolob I believe.
    Yeah, right next to a krispy kreme, I just love the red hot sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    Yeah, right next to a krispy kreme, I just love the red hot sign.
    Oh, I thought Dunkin' Donuts had that franchise?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Actually, the Roman Catholic Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity and fully God and fully Man. So, doctrinally the Romans have the "real" Jesus. It is the Romans accentuation of the Eucharist, claiming that it is transubstantiated into Christ's Blood and Body, and that only the "appearance" of bread and wine remain, which has the Catholics in bondage. There is a big difference between belief in the "real presence," and the false doctrine of transubstantiation. So you had one leg up on the Mormons, who completely deny all orthodox doctrine regarding the Person of Christ and the Holy Trinity. As far as being sensitive to the TBMs - are you aware of the thousands of people out there who are deceived by the Mormon "sheep in wolves clothing?" That is who you should feel sorry for. Jesus certainly had no empathy for those who went about deceiving people - and Paul said they were under a curse.
    I understand your point but I have empathy for any who are deceived and lost as I once was.

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    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    I understand your point but I have empathy for any who are deceived and lost as I once was.
    Just a thought, did Paul, have empathy for the lost? If anyone did it should have been Paul, he was once so anti Jesus, and made a complete turn-around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    Just a thought, did Paul, have empathy for the lost? If anyone did it should have been Paul, he was once so anti Jesus, and made a complete turn-around.
    Good point, Paul even called himself the chief of sinners. In 1Cor chap 6 Paul gave a list of some of the things the unrighteous do but in verse 11 he followed that list with this point, "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." I know it is sometimes hard not to rail against false doctrine but there still must be comp***ion for those who are sincerely wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    I understand your point but I have empathy for any who are deceived and lost as I once was.
    It is better to have concern for those who are being conceived by a cult who is parasitic on the Body of Christ. Including many Catholics by the way.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    It is better to have concern for those who are being conceived by a cult who is parasitic on the Body of Christ. Including many Catholics by the way.
    OK. I'm not catholic by the way.

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    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    OK. I'm not catholic by the way.
    I'm not catholic eigther, but if I were I think I'd like to be called Pope, but I am not going to wear a white dress.

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    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    You are the worst abuser, Jeff. You don't understand Christian doctrine at all.
    Then it's strange you never point out any mistakes I make in my descriptions of Christian doctrine....and in YOUR doctrine, too, which isn't really Christian in many ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealFakeHair View Post
    I wonder if they have a StarBucks on Kolob?
    They would have to serve only decaf!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    They would have to serve only decaf!
    I wonder if they have Postum on Kolob?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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