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Thread: A question has sprouted.

  1. #1
    James Banta
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    Default A question has sprouted.

    Were there peoples of the world that allowed to come to the American Continent even if they didn't know the true and living God? As I read the BofM it seems to teach that ONLY a righteous people would be allowed to inherit the Land of promise..

    Ether 13:2
    For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof


    So did God bring to the land of promise a people that worshiped false gods (idols), a people that had never heard of the true God? That seems to be the new teaching of the LDS church saying that the Nephites, Lamanites and Jaredites are among the ancestors of the American Indians. If these people are not the only ancestors of the American Indians what other after the flood were allowed to enter this the Land of promise? After all only men that serve God would be allowed to dwell on the Land.. Were there a people that the world never knew that served the one true God that was allowed to enter the Land of Promise before the Jaredites or after the Nephites that met those requirements? Or is it instead proper to say that the Nephites, Lamanites and Jaredites ARE the ancestors of the American Indians. That God kept true to His teaching and allowed no other men to inherit this land other than those that should serve Him?

    Is there a way to teach that the American Indians had pagan ancestors and stay true to what the text teaches as to who could inherit the Land of Promise? Please explain how the Nephites, Lamanites and Jaredites could only be among the ancestors of the American Indians in light of the requirement for the land to be reserved for a people that would serve God and not idols.. IHS jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Is there a way to teach that the American Indians had pagan ancestors and stay true to what the text teaches as to who could inherit the Land of Promise?
    Check your premises. You're ***uming that "this land" = the entire American continent. You also seem to think that the fact that "the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof" means that every single person who dwelt in the land would necessarily do so.

  3. #3
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Check your premises. You're ***uming that "this land" = the entire American continent. You also seem to think that the fact that "the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof" means that every single person who dwelt in the land would necessarily do so.
    Guess you don't take what God said literally but feel it is ok to change the thoughts of God. How nice of you to do God's thinking. So, with that said, how do we know that God ever spoke to JS? It is only Smith's say so. If God did help JS translate the BoM and this is a sacred book for you and your church, then are you not to accept every word written within it? Oh, excuse me, you know more then God and He never meant it to read that way. No wonder you don't accept what is written in the Bible either. So, why are you even a Mormon if you don't believe in the words of your BoM?

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    If you don't address my post, does that mean you can't? Feel free to show that anything I said is incorrect.

  5. #5
    alanmolstad
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    Once again....its a moot point.

    it doesn't matter a hoot what this or that means in the Mormon's Point of view...

    We are constrained by the fact that the bible specifically warned us about the story told by the Mormon's, and ...well....thats enough.

    iT'S CASE-CLOSED

    Move on people.....move on....

  6. #6
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    If you don't address my post, does that mean you can't? Feel free to show that anything I said is incorrect.
    You've been shown already. It is YOU who refuses to see what is logical. And I am STILL waiting for you to answer my questions. Good thing I haven't been holding my breath. You have proven to everyone here that you have no answers to support Mormonism. James has shown you that there is no physical evidence to the BoM. What more do you need? I see you fighting against things that you can never prove. Give it up, you're standing on sinking sand.
    Why didn't Jesus teach about temple marriage? Why didn't Jesus teach about doing work for the dead? Why didn't Jesus teach we must do good works. He gave us three commandments only:
    #1 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind; and, Love your neighbor as yourself." Luke 10:27
    #2 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt. 5:48

    Now, tell us when you became perfect. Because one must be perfect in order to obey God's commandments. We don't have it in us to be obedient.....the reason God sent us a Savior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    You've been shown already. It is YOU who refuses to see what is logical.
    Evidence-free ***ertion. Link, or it didn't happen.

  8. #8
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Evidence-free ***ertion. Link, or it didn't happen.

    Still waiting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    Still waiting!
    So it didn't happen.

  10. #10
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    So it didn't happen.
    How do I show that there is NO EVIDENCE fr the BofM in the Americas? All I can show you in that the Smithsonian, National Geographic, and anthropological schools like brown University have never found anything in all their research that supports the BofM.. here is an example of their correspondence:

    Information from the
    National Museum of Natural History
    SMITHSONIAN INS***UTION WASHINGTON, D.C. 20560



    Your recent inquiry concerning the Smithsonian Ins***ution's alleged use of the Book of Mormon as a scientific guide has been received in the Smithsonian's Department of Anthropology.

    The Book of Mormon is a religious document and not a scientific guide. The Smithsonian Ins***ution has never used it in archeological research and any information that you have received to the contrary is incorrect. Accurate information about the Smithsonian's position is contained in the enclosed "Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon," which was prepared to respond to the numerous inquiries that the Smithsonian receives on this topic.

    Because the Smithsonian regards the unauthorized use of its name to disseminate inaccurate information as unlawful, we would appreciate your ***istance in providing us with the names of any individuals who are misusing the Smithsonian's name. Please address any correspondence to:



    Anthropology Outreach Office
    Department of Anthropology
    National Museum of Natural History MRC 112
    Smithsonian Ins***ution
    Washington, DC 20560





    PREPARED BY
    THE DEPARTMENT OF ANTHROPOLOGY
    SMITHSONIAN INS***UTION
    1996


    IHS jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Check your premises. You're ***uming that "this land" = the entire American continent. You also seem to think that the fact that "the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof" means that every single person who dwelt in the land would necessarily do so.
    So, why don't you identify for us what "land" is intended? And why the Mormon god's prophetic claim fell flat on its face, as nobody knows what "land" the Jaredites settled? Could that be because the whole yarn proclaims American exceptionalism as a Christian doctrine? Sure looks like it.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    How do I show that there is NO EVIDENCE fr the BofM in the Americas?
    I don't think you can, but neverending said that you have.

    All I can show you in that the Smithsonian, National Geographic, and anthropological schools like brown University have never found anything in all their research that supports the BofM..
    Actually, what it says is that the Smithsonian Ins***ution has never used the Book of Mormon in archaeological research.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    So, why don't you identify for us what "land" is intended? And why the Mormon god's prophetic claim fell flat on its face, as nobody knows what "land" the Jaredites settled?
    Is this an admission that you guys are ***erting a claim even though you have no idea whether it's correct or not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Is this an admission that you guys are ***erting a claim even though you have no idea whether it's correct or not?
    We have discernment. Mormonism is a hoax.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

  15. #15
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    So it didn't happen.
    What didn't happen? That Jesus never taught that people need to marry in the temple. That he never taught good works was needed for salvation, or doing work for the dead? STILL WAITING!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    We have discernment.
    I haven't seen any evidence of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    What didn't happen?
    That I have been shown already that anything I said in post #2 is incorrect.

  18. #18
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Check your premises. You're ***uming that "this land" = the entire American continent. You also seem to think that the fact that "the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof" means that every single person who dwelt in the land would necessarily do so.

    Helaman 3:8
    And it came to p*** that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.


    Since your prophets are unwilling to tell the world where the BofM lands are one can only read that p***age and believe that it means the whole of the Americas East, West, North, and South, both continents.. That means that no one but the righteous should have ever been allowed to enter these lands.. You are INVENTING again and this time without president.. IHS jim

  19. #19
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Evidence-free ***ertion. Link, or it didn't happen.
    LOOK WHO IS ACCUSING OTHERS ABOUT NOT HAVING EVIDENCE!! I have just shown you from your own book that the children of Lehi fill the WHOLE LAND.. You denied it and limited the BofM land to some unknown quan***y.. I am sorry but your limited lands theory just doesn't work with what your own scriptures teach.. When you can show me some statement from one of your church presidents that explain this limited land theory you might have some room to teach it.. Until they do you are required to believe what the BofM teaches that is if you believe it at all.. IHS jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    one can only read that p***age and believe that it means the whole of the Americas East, West, North, and South, both continents..
    The fact that people read that p***age and believe that it doesn't mean the whole of the Americas proves that that's not the only way one can read it. You're ***uming that Helaman 3:8 is referring to the Drake P***age, Arctic Ocean, Pacific Ocean, and Atlantic Ocean respectively, but this ***umption is not supported by the internal geography of the text.

  21. #21
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    That I have been shown already that anything I said in post #2 is incorrect.
    Post #2 does NOT answer my questions. I am still waiting. Must I repeat the questions for you again? How many times have I asked you but you remain silent? Have no answers, fine then say so. There's no shame in not knowing, that is how one learns. Again, why didn't Jesus teach people must be married in the temple? Why didn't Jesus teach that good works would give people salvation or that it was necessary at all? Why didn't Jesus teach works for the dead?
    I still await an answer.
    As for believing what is written in your BoM why do you question anything? If God said all people in the land, is that not what he meant? If you are questioning the wording and trying to say that God didn't mean what he helped JS to write, then how can you believe anything about your religion? Your whole church rests on the BoM and what JS did. What does "ALL" mean to you then?

  22. #22
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    The fact that people read that p***age and believe that it doesn't mean the whole of the Americas proves that that's not the only way one can read it. You're ***uming that Helaman 3:8 is referring to the Drake P***age, Arctic Ocean, Pacific Ocean, and Atlantic Ocean respectively, but this ***umption is not supported by the internal geography of the text.
    The way the p***age is written supports all of the Americas being the promised land. Not the limited lands that some scholars at BYU have decided to redefine their own scripture to include.. This Limited Geography theory has not always been the teaching of the Church. Michael R. Ash of both FARMS and FAIR tell us that "Joseph Smith understood the Book of Mormon according to rumors and suppositions of his day" and that was a "hemispheric geography with the Lehites as the primary progenitors for the Native Americans". Ash goes on to teach that the teachings of Smith of the subject "do not cons***ute revelation". Again I say that the BYU intellectuals have taken lead even over Joseph Smith as the directors of REAL LDS teaching as to what cons***utes BofM lands.. And by what right to they make such contradiction? He said it is by "revealed doctrine, scientific facts, or in-depth examination".. Since he can't point to a single revealed doctrine he is down to clinging to scientific facts, and/or in-depth examination. Since there is no facts that can be examined there can be no in-depth examination of such facts unless you can explain the facts better than saying it is impossible for God to have included the full Continent as being under His protection. You can find these Anti mormon responses from My Ash in "Were the Lehites Alone in the Americas?," by Michael R. Ash, www.fairlds.org..

    IHS jim

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    Post #2 does NOT answer my questions.
    No kidding; I didn't suggest it did, and your questions are off-topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    The way the p***age is written supports all of the Americas being the promised land.
    No, your interpretation of the p***age supports all of the Americas being the promised land. Not the same thing.

  25. #25
    RealFakeHair
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    Once again in mormonlandism there is NO there there! No matter how hard the LDSinc. Try and spin the evidence against Josesph Smithr jr. Imagainary mind there is still no DNA linking the american injins to the jewish people, and That is a fact!

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