Fig will be missed. ( the p***ing of a forum member)

[alanmolstad]

Fig was a good guy to chat with and debate.

Fig was a Mormon...that much was clear to me.

But Fig also was a normal guy....and that's what struck me the most about him.
How different the posts of Fig were compared to all the other Mormons who posted on this forum.

All the other Mormons seem to me to come here with only one thing on their mind...."**** people off"

But Fig actually treated me at all times with respect.
Fig listened to people.
When Fig asked a question on the forum, the way it was phrased was a credit to his skills as a writer.

I never saw him act snotty.
I never saw him act with disrespect.
I never saw him post things that were hurtful.

Due to the nature of this forum and the type of people that come here via our open-door, I have gotten used to seeing the most childish comments posted from BOTH sides of the debate.

But Fig set a tone, a higher standard of behavior.

i never once agreed with fig on any religious question, yet I never felt in all of our conversations that he tried to put me down as a person.

he disagreed with my views....but he was never disagreeable to me as a person.
(A lesson so few learn to do)

He stopped posting here a while ago, Im not sure why?
I always felt bad when I saw he was no longer responding to posts aimed at him...

I will miss him.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Fig was a good guy to chat with and debate.

Fig was a Mormon...that much was clear to me.

But Fig also was a normal guy....and that's what struck me the most about him.
How different the posts of Fig were compared to all the other Mormons who posted on this forum.

All the other Mormons seem to me to come here with only one thing on their mind...."**** people off"

But Fig actually treated me at all times with respect.
Fig listened to people.
When Fig asked a question on the forum, the way it was phrased was a credit to his skills as a writer.

I never saw him act snotty.
I never saw him act with disrespect.
I never saw him post things that were hurtful.

Due to the nature of this forum and the type of people that come here via our open-door, I have gotten used to seeing the most childish comments posted from BOTH sides of the debate.

But Fig set a tone, a higher standard of behavior.

i never once agreed with fig on any religious question, yet I never felt in all of our conversations that he tried to put me down as a person.

he disagreed with my views....but he was never disagreeable to me as a person.
(A lesson so few learn to do)

He stopped posting here a while ago, Im not sure why?
I always felt bad when I saw he was no longer responding to posts aimed at him...

I will miss him.

We ALL know Fig has died. WE need to move on with our lives now. I think your bromance needs to end as well for this is getting a bit sickening and embarr***ing for you. Glad that you felt Fig was such a nice guy but what should really be bothering you is the fact that he is now in Hell! What did you do to try and show him the way to eternal life? Did you witness to Fig and explain to him the TRUE gospel, trying to follow what our Savior told us to do? You want to mourn this man's loss? Mourn for him because he is lost forever and will stand before God to be judged.

[Phoenix]

Fig is not in hell. He is in Paradise.

[alanmolstad]

Fig had a gentle manner about him, and the other day I saw a link on the forum to many of Fig's older posts. In reading the posts you can really get the calmness of the man.
If I have time today I hope to do a copy/paste of a few of his posts that show how a person (In this case a Mormon) can be forceful in his defense of his faith, yet never once rude...

A skill lost on this newer generation it seems

[RealFakeHair]

Where is paradise?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Where is paradise?

If all the universe is all that is encomp***ed within Time and Space.....then "paradise" is outside that.

There is no thing made that I can point to that actually compares to "paradise"
The earthly life we have now is one way, the heavenly life we will have one day is a different way.
Nothing here is like anything there.

Thus there is nothing we can point to and say, "there it is" or "it's over there next to that"
There is nothing that we can point to that is close to paradise.

So there is no real earthly answer as to the "where is it?" question

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

If all the universe is all that is encomp***ed within Time and Space.....then "paradise" is outside that.

There is no thing made that I can point to that actually compares to "paradise"
The earthly life we have now is one way, the heavenly life we will have one day is a different way.
Nothing here is like anything there.

Thus there is nothing we can point to and say, "there it is" or "it's over there next to that"
There is nothing that we can point to that is close to paradise.

So there is no real earthly answer as to the "where is it?" question

Have you been watching too many Star Trek episodes?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Have you been watching too many Star Trek episodes?

Once again, I was remembering how Walter Martin talked about how we can never in a million years, ever come to any understanding of what Heaven is like....for even the phrase "Heaven is like" is actually not going to work....for heaven is not like anything around us in the universe.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Once again, I was remembering how Walter Martin talked about how we can never in a million years, ever come to any understanding of what Heaven is like....for even the phrase "Heaven is like" is actually not going to work....for heaven is not like anything around us in the universe.

You would have to say that while I am WORKING!

[alanmolstad]

everyone must be at work.....but Im free today...

So Im in charge!



The Mormons must be stumped by the "Jesus is his brother?" question...

So to kill time while one of em figures out how to answer that one, you may ask a question as a topic starter....

[alanmolstad]

Walter Martin was once asked during his radio show about the chances of a caller's friend being saved, even if that friend attended a Mormon church and was married to a Mormon man?

Walter's answer was that we are only going to be judged according to how we responded to the light from heaven we received.

Walter went on to talk about the fact that over the years he had known many Mormons that were always going to attend a Mormon church out of family connections, but who also considered none of the Mormon teachings about God and the person of Jesus as being truthful.

(So in effect, they were bad Mormons)

Walter also talked about how many former-Mormons who once had a strong faith in Smith and the Mormon church only to suddenly find themselves with the "blinders taken off" when they entered into the Mormon temple and saw for themselves what Mormonism is actually all about.


lets remember-
We are after all, saved by Grace THOUGH faith, and that faith is in the Jesus of the Christian church not the so-called "Jesus" found in Mormonism.

So it's not the church building you go in that sends you to heaven or hell, it's the faith in the true Lord jesus Christ that is what Grace is talking about .

Thus, there is every hope for a person that is now p***ed, that regardless of how strongly they may have protested their trust in Smith and the Mormon teachings, as long as they respond correctly within the privacy of their own hearts to the Light from the true Jesus of the christian church they can be saved.

Some Christians object to this idea.

Some Christians hold that the former Mormon must refute all the Mormon teachings,,,be baptized....accept the Holy Spirit..before they are saved.

But I think of it like this:
When a person is trapped down in a pit, and I toss a rope down to them, they tie-off and I drag them out, I'm going to expect that a lot of dirt and filth will still cling to them even after that are saved.

But they are saved none the less.....







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXMU...A55D36C180D6E8

keep this teaching in mind when considering the fate of Mormons who have come into our lives for a time and then p***ed.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Fig is not in hell. He is in Paradise.

Did he repent and come to Christ? The Biblical Christ, and renounce the Impostor of Mormonism?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by neverending

We ALL know Fig has died. WE need to move on with our lives now. I think your bromance needs to end as well for this is getting a bit sickening and embarr***ing for you. Glad that you felt Fig was such a nice guy but what should really be bothering you is the fact that he is now in Hell! What did you do to try and show him the way to eternal life? Did you witness to Fig and explain to him the TRUE gospel, trying to follow what our Savior told us to do? You want to mourn this man's loss? Mourn for him because he is lost forever and will stand before God to be judged.

I'd have to agree here. Silly to make a man in death larger than he was in life. Fig combated the Gospel very efficiently. I don't know how many folks he deceived with the lies of Mormonism, but my guess is many. Those who seek to teach others, as you know, come under more intense judgment. Hopefully he repented of, and renounced, Mormonism and left this world covered int he Blood of Christ - if not, however, his death should be a warning to other Mormons that leaving this world "in Joseph Smith," is no more efficacious for salvation than worshipping Buddha. Christ said that no man comes to the Father but by HIM - and that "HIM" is the Jesus we find in Scripture.

[alanmolstad]

You are judged only according to your response to the Light from Heaven you received.

We judge the outward, but our judgement is always incomplete and flawed.

Once a person has p***ed, we who are left should only hope that the person found rest, and that one day if it be the Lord's will we shall all meet them again in God's kingdom.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Did he repent and come to Christ?

I don't even know whether you have done that, but when you die, you won't see me publicly proclaiming that you're being eternally tormented in some pit of fire.
That kind of judgmentalism is something that Mormons leave in the hands of Jesus and/or His Father.

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt if I have to predict their future abode.

[James Banta]

[alanmolstad;153227]You are judged only according to your response to the Light from Heaven you received.

Do the LDS have less light than the Church does? Does not nearly ever mormon in the world have their own copy of the scriptures? Didn't Fig have a copy of God's word available to him? Didn't Jesus command us to study the scriptures because in them is the message of Life and they are what testifies of Him (John 5:39).. Even if he never opened the Bible he would still be without excuse (Romans 1:20).. Is the true God that hidden from the world that having faith in His is so hard to be known.. Jesus agreeing with Moses explained Him (Mark 12:29).. Fig will be judged in the full light of what was available to Him.. The fact that the Father is God (John 20:17). The fact that Jesus is God. The fact that the Holy Spirit is God. And yet the Fact that Jesus confirmed that the Fact that God is One Lord. Not being willing to believe God, that He is one dismisses a person to hold faith is a council of gods. Gods that demand works to prove to them our faith. Obedience to their laws to show our devotion? Sorry but id Fig held faith in his mormon gods to the time of his death he gained the same reward of all pagans.. Hell until judgement than the Lake of Fire.. Our judgment in this matter only agrees with the direct teaching of the Lord Jesus:

John 3:38
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

We judge the outward, but our judgement is always incomplete and flawed.

This is not our judgment it is the judgment of God given to us in His word.. His judgment is complete, perfect, just, and eternal..

Once a person has p***ed, we who are left should only hope that the person found rest, and that one day if it be the Lord's will we shall all meet them again in God's kingdom.

That is my prayer for the lost, all of them including the LDS.. Not after their death but here and now in life.. After their death the doors are closed and there is no salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2).. If a person dies that has thrown the grace of God aside putting their hopes in Good works and a man invented priesthood, they have no hope. All there is left to them is God's wrath.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I don't even know whether you have done that, but when you die, you won't see me..........

The P***ings... (a work by Alan , The text of reference is 1 Corinthians 4:5)


When we know someone who has died, the thing to do that shows good manners is to grant the person the "benefit of the doubt" because we know that our judgements are always flawed.

We look on the outside, we judge according to the things we see and hear that the other person did.
But we don't know their heart.
We dont know of the struggles that the other person may have faced.
We never heard all their prayers like the Lord has.
We never searched the hidden corners their heart, saw the doubts, saw their unanswered questions, saw the hurts.

That's the thing we always need to be careful about.
For sometimes in our haste to sit in judgement of others we fall into the trap that Jesus warned us about when he said "Judge not ..."

Sure, I fully understand the temptation to judge they who have p***ed is great at times.
All of us will know some people that we regard as "Lost" and in our hearts believe that they simply had rejected the only means of salvation offered to men.

But what keeps us from standing up and speaking our thoughts to the loved ones left behind ie - "Your dad is in Hell!", is that we don't know that for a fact.

Our judgements are flawed.

But what we do know for a fact is that we can trust our Lord to judge us all rightly.


Then what shall we say to the widow?....what words do we speak to the children of someone who has died?....what words of comfort do we brings to the grieving?

Each of us has to make that call....

I cant tell you what you should say during such times as it's always a hard and awkward moment, be it in person , at a funeral, or on the web.

But I can tell you what I say in such a situation - "I pray that Fig has found rest"

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I don't even know whether you have done that, but when you die, you won't see me publicly proclaiming that you're being eternally tormented in some pit of fire.
That kind of judgmentalism is something that Mormons leave in the hands of Jesus and/or His Father.

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt if I have to predict their future abode.

What did you say JEFF?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

You are judged only according to your response to the Light from Heaven you received.

We judge the outward, but our judgement is always incomplete and flawed.

Once a person has p***ed, we who are left should only hope that the person found rest, and that one day if it be the Lord's will we shall all meet them again in God's kingdom.

Sorry, but faith comes from hearing, and hearing from the WORD OF GOD! Mormons aren't exempt from being responsible before God for what they do with the Gospel. I know Jim and Neverending have faithfully told the Mormons here the Gospel of Salvation found in the Bible. Evidence of salvation is found in how we respond to the Gospel. If a person rejects it unto death, what do you suppose that means? Are we to compromise the Words of Christ because somebody was a "nice guy." "Nice Guy" isn't the way to heaven, Christ is.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I don't even know whether you have done that, but when you die, you won't see me publicly proclaiming that you're being eternally tormented in some pit of fire.
That kind of judgmentalism is something that Mormons leave in the hands of Jesus and/or His Father.

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt if I have to predict their future abode.

Could someone tell me where are all the bad people buried in the cemeteries?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Sorry, but .....

But nothing...

What I have posted is the truth.
You can check it out for yourself here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXM...A55D36C180D6E8
(starting at the :20 sec point in the video clip)

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The P***ings... (a work by Alan , The text of reference is 1 Corinthians 4:5)


When we know someone who has died, the thing to do that shows good manners is to grant the person the "benefit of the doubt" because we know that our judgements are always flawed.

We look on the outside, we judge according to the things we see and hear that the other person did.
But we don't know their heart.
We dont know of the struggles that the other person may have faced.
We never heard all their prayers like the Lord has.
We never searched the hidden corners their heart, saw the doubts, saw their unanswered questions, saw the hurts.

That's the thing we always need to be careful about.
For sometimes in our haste to sit in judgement of others we fall into the trap that Jesus warned us about when he said "Judge not ..."

Sure, I fully understand the temptation to judge they who have p***ed is great at times.
All of us will know some people that we regard as "Lost" and in our hearts believe that they simply had rejected the only means of salvation offered to men.

But what keeps us from standing up and speaking our thoughts to the loved ones left behind ie - "Your dad is in Hell!", is that we don't know that for a fact.

Our judgements are flawed.

But what we do know for a fact is that we can trust our Lord to judge us all rightly.


Then what shall we say to the widow?....what words do we speak to the children of someone who has died?....what words of comfort do we brings to the grieving?

Each of us has to make that call....

I cant tell you what you should say during such times as it's always a hard and awkward moment, be it in person , at a funeral, or on the web.

But I can tell you what I say in such a situation - "I pray that Fig has found rest"

Alan,
Sure, we were told not to judge but when a person has come right out and cursed God saying that when they die and see God that they will spit in his eye, what then is one to think? This was my brother who has now p***ed away. Even my own father rejected God's truths as James and I presented them to him. My mother who would say, "I know what your church teaches" and would walk out of the room. If we are to believe in God's word and what is said by Christ himself, then I can only say that YES! my parents and brother are not with the Lord but awaiting judgment and the Lake of Fire. To attend an LDS funeral is a very sad experience for no one can rejoice in a life that was never lived for Christ (but living for a false one) and a soul that is not free from pain and not existing with God forever. My heart still is broken knowing I will never see my loved ones again til the day they stand before God; that is why we are so insistent here with trying desperately to show Mormons the truth. God doesn't want to **** his children to Hell but He has to when those children have rejected his free gift of eternal life.
As for Fig, I didn't know him other than to see his handle and a few comments here and there but, Alan, if you know the scriptures and what God himself has told us, then you know that Fig is not with God for he believed in a false god, believing he too would become a god and never trusted in the shed blood of Christ, believing he had to prove himself by doing good works to gain his salvation and obeying all the strange laws and ordinances of Mormonism. Please don't fool yourself or us here.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by neverending

Alan,
Sure, we were told not to judge but .....

The part that comes after the "but..." is where people seek to justify themselves.

Its like when Jesus talked about being a good neighbor....People want to find a way to justify their own thoughts and past actions, so they point fingers and ask, "Was he MY brother?", "Who is MY neighbor?"

(In other words, we seek to justify ourselves by turning the question around and into one where we get to judge others. - Are THEY my brother?...Are THEY my neighbor?)

The idea is that if we can convince ourselves that the other person was not acting like our "brother" or our "neighbor", then we don't have to treat him like such.

But, we do....

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

But nothing...

What I have posted is the truth.
You can check it out for yourself here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXM...A55D36C180D6E8
(starting at the :20 sec point in the video clip)

What I posted was from the Bible - maybe you don't agree with it.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The part that comes after the "but..." is where people seek to justify themselves.

Its like when Jesus talked about being a good neighbor....People want to find a way to justify their own thoughts and past actions, so they point fingers and ask, "Was he MY brother?", "Who is MY neighbor?"

(In other words, we seek to justify ourselves by turning the question around and into one where we get to judge others. - Are THEY my brother?...Are THEY my neighbor?)

The idea is that if we can convince ourselves that the other person was not acting like our "brother" or our "neighbor", then we don't have to treat him like such.

But, we do....

So, what kind of church do you attend anyway? How do they view salvation?