How to Remove Your Name from the LDS Records

[alanmolstad]

gosh...I never knew it was so...


I think the best way to go is if you want to go to a new church to just send a letter to the old church and let them know.....

And then the old church should just go,,,"Check him off the list" and thats it....

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by neverending

All that was said to the Bishop was that we wouldn't be attending at the Ward anymore but had found a new church, that was it. Within a month we were out, excommunicated for Apostasy. Now you know the full story but even today I laugh because to be accused of apostasy, we would have had to give up our faith in Jesus Christ, and that we have never done. It is only that we denied JS and all Mormon doctrines. It's really no big deal except to my parents who disowned me. I was the youngest and the only girl. Oh well, my only living sibling is an atheist but to my Dad that was ok, he still thought the world of that son because they went deer hunting every year. My other brother who has p***ed away never liked hunting and was gay. A very dysfunctional family wouldn't you say?

Yes, that does seem pretty dysfunctional, and in my opinion, the decision to excommunicate a member for apostasy based merely on the news that the member had found a new church, seems extremely unusual.
In my ward we are currently contacting people who have stated they no longer want anything to do with the church , and we are asking them what they'd like to do. We give them the option of leaving their membership status as is, or the option of requesting their name be removed, which we will honor if that is their wish. But excommunication never even comes up in these cases. Maybe you just had an aberrant bishop.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Yes, that does seem pretty dysfunctional, and in my opinion, the decision to excommunicate a member for apostasy based merely on the news that the member had found a new church, seems extremely unusual.
In my ward .....

me too....

While a lot of this forum is dominated with "Mormon vs christian' topics,,,,the truth of your statement cuts across lines.

There are many Christian and non-Christian denominations that have really harsh rules as bad as any blood-sucking CULT you have ever heard about as far and excommunication goes.....



I just think the whole concept is wrong.......

No matter the religion......

just wrong.

[alanmolstad]

I just think that if a guy changes his mind....WHO THE HELL CARES?

If i change my mind about a few things as i read the bible, who whose business is that really?


Should not a guy be allowed to be wrong a few times in his life without it being a big deal?
Just allow a guy to change his mind from time to time without the whole **** world stopping and black listing him for it.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

gosh...I never knew it was so...


I think the best way to go is if you want to go to a new church to just send a letter to the old church and let them know.....

And then the old church should just go,,,"Check him off the list" and thats it....

Sorry that was meant for "the way" not you... IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

the more I hear about what the Mormons act like, the more I look at Mormons and think, "How can they not see it?"

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

the more I hear about what the Mormons act like, the more I look at Mormons and think, "How can they not see it?"

They act, on average, like the average human being, and that causes you to think badly of them?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

They act, on average, like the average human being, and that causes you to think badly of them?

If all LDSinc. acted like me it would be a beautiful world. If every TBM let their brain kick in when it comes to Joseph Smith jr. Imaginary mind they would be jehovah witness, or if not maybe hare krishna.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

They act, on average, like the average human being, and that causes you to think badly of them?

we must be on two different forums

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Yes, that does seem pretty dysfunctional, and in my opinion, the decision to excommunicate a member for apostasy based merely on the news that the member had found a new church, seems extremely unusual.
In my ward we are currently contacting people who have stated they no longer want anything to do with the church , and we are asking them what they'd like to do. We give them the option of leaving their membership status as is, or the option of requesting their name be removed, which we will honor if that is their wish. But excommunication never even comes up in these cases. Maybe you just had an aberrant bishop.

I do think that some things have changed since I left your church but I also think that a Ward's at***ude is based on the Bishop and what kind of personality he has. Maybe I'm wrong but I do think that is so from what I experienced growing up a Mormon girl and after I got married and lived in a Ward here and a couple of Branches in Mississippi and N. Dakota. The worse was the Branch President in N. Dakota who in my opinion was cold hearted and had no concern for members who were struggling.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

They act, on average, like the average human being, and that causes you to think badly of them?

If you really believed that wouldn't you agree that the heart of man is deceitful ABOVE ALL things and desperately wicked? Instead of the LDS doctrine that other than the ability to have children and experience physical death the fall had no effect of us? IHS jim

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If you really believed that wouldn't you agree that the heart of man is deceitful ABOVE ALL things and desperately wicked?

No. Human beings are individuals, and their behavior runs the spectrum, from worst to best. The worst of us, like maybe Hitler or Saddam or Idi Amin, could be described as deceitful ABOVE ALL things and desperately wicked, but it would be wrong to describe the best of us, such as St. Stephen or John or the many martyrs over the centuries, that way, because they were not deceitful ABOVE ALL things and desperately wicked, and their behavior is evidence of that.

Instead of the LDS doctrine that other than the ability to have children and experience physical death the fall had no effect of us?

But realistically speaking, the LDS doctrine seems pretty true to me. People chose to disobey God even before the Fall, don't you agree?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

No. Human beings are individuals, and their behavior runs the spectrum, from worst to best. The worst of us, like maybe Hitler or Saddam or Idi Amin, could be described as deceitful ABOVE ALL things and desperately wicked, but it would be wrong to describe the best of us, such as St. Stephen or John or the many martyrs over the centuries, that way, because they were not deceitful ABOVE ALL things and desperately wicked, and their behavior is evidence of that.


But realistically speaking, the LDS doctrine seems pretty true to me. People chose to disobey God even before the Fall, don't you agree?

No I don't agree with you.. I agree with God through His word.. I had hopes that you would have recognized it. Is it one of those p***ages you believe was perverted by evil or careless men?

Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

This is why we must be born again because our base nature is to do evil continually (Genesis 6:5). Stephen, John, the martyrs, even Many the mother of Jesus were sinners saved by God's grace through faith in God, having been born spiritually of God by that faith.. Paul was a great apostle of the Lord Jesus and still he admitted that the Good he would do, that he doesn't do but the evil he would not do, that he does (Romans 7:19). So yes even the men we look to as spiritual giants are sinners saved by God's grace. They, me, and even you are sinners, lost if not for His grace.. There are no exceptions to who has a heart of deceit that is desperately wicked that describe everyone of us outside the imputed righteousness given to all that believe.. IHS jim

[Phoenix]

I said that people were disobeying God even before the Fall, and you said you disagree, Jim. Did I misunderstand you ? I had hopes that you would have recognized the Bible p***age I am referring to . Is it one of those p***ages you believe was perverted by evil or careless men?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I said that people were disobeying God even before the Fall, and you said you disagree, Jim. Did I misunderstand you ? I had hopes that you would have recognized the Bible p***age I am referring to . Is it one of those p***ages you believe was perverted by evil or careless men?

Adam disobeyed God. That was the fall.. There was no man that ever disobeyed God before that.. Yes it a bit like asking where the man was when he jumped off the bridge but in reality no man sinned before Adam did so. This is according to the Bible. If you want to force your own self serving beliefs that tells you that other men existed as Adam lived in the garden, that is your personal distorted beliefs. There is no such teaching found in the Bible. Satan was never a man. Those angelic beings that followed him were never men. Adam was the only man that sinned and until that day no sin existed before God.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Adam disobeyed God. That was the fall.. There was no man that ever disobeyed God before that.. Yes it a bit like asking where the man was when he jumped off the bridge but in reality no man sinned before Adam did so. This is according to the Bible.

This is correct Jim!

[theway]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Adam disobeyed God. That was the fall.. There was no man that ever disobeyed God before that.. Yes it a bit like asking where the man was when he jumped off the bridge but in reality no man sinned before Adam did so. This is according to the Bible. If you want to force your own self serving beliefs that tells you that other men existed as Adam lived in the garden, that is your personal distorted beliefs. There is no such teaching found in the Bible. Satan was never a man. Those angelic beings that followed him were never men. Adam was the only man that sinned and until that day no sin existed before God.. IHS jim

You are contradicting yourself here???
Did Satan and those who followed him sin or not "before God" and before there was Adam and Eve?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

....Yes it a bit like asking where the man was when he jumped off the bridge ....

I'm a little in the dark about this metaphor.....

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I'm a little in the dark about this metaphor.....

It's a riddle.. "Where was the man whe hhe jumped off the bridge".. He wasn't on the bridge, that's where he was before he jumped. He wasn't in the air, that's where he was after he jumped.. Does that help? IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by theway

You are contradicting yourself here???
Did Satan and those who followed him sin or not "before God" and before there was Adam and Eve?

A good question, one that actually came up a few times back in my Bible school days.

If I remember what I learned at the time, there is a Bible verse that teaches that Satan walked just fine though the garden .

The garden was made on the 6th day of creation.
Later Satan is judged by the lord for his part in the fall of man.

So what seems to be true is that Satan enjoyed a correct relationship with God even after man was living in the garden.
But that at some point Satan approached the man and woman and helped then fall into sin.
At that point Satan lost his relationship with god and was judged, even to the point of the "he will crush your head' stuff that God tells him.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

You are contradicting yourself here???
Did Satan and those who followed him sin or not "before God" and before there was Adam and Eve?

What I said was 100% correct.. Satan whether he sinned in his heart before Adam was ever created or in the garden in deceiving Eve, he was not a human being but an angelic creation.. He was NOT A MAN! I said clearly that "Adam disobeyed God. That was the fall.. There was no man that ever disobeyed God before that". Let me say again that no man ever disobeyed God before Adam sinned.. There is no contradiction in that.. IHS jim

[theway]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What I said was 100% correct.. Satan whether he sinned in his heart before Adam was ever created or in the garden in deceiving Eve, he was not a human being but an angelic creation.. He was NOT A MAN! I said clearly that "Adam disobeyed God. That was the fall.. There was no man that ever disobeyed God before that". Let me say again that no man ever disobeyed God before Adam sinned.. There is no contradiction in that.. IHS jim

That is not what you said... Here is what you said before you decided you needed to backpedal.


Adam was the only man that sinned and until that day no sin existed before God..

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by theway

That is not what said... Here is what you said before you decided you needed to backpedal.


Adam was the only man that sinned and until that day no sin existed before God..

Eve sinned first!

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by theway

That is not what said... Here is what you said before you decided you needed to backpedal.


Adam was the only man that sinned and until that day no sin existed before God..

If you have a question about what jim thinks, ask him!

If you have a post of Jim's that you think is unclear in relation to later posts, then ask Jim to address the whole issue for you so you dont have to guess what he was talking about last week, you can learn what he thinks right now.


I had a Mormon a few years ago try to make a big deal over one of my older posts too...He was going on and on with the "But you said ___ on this issue last year and now you are being inconsistent" (It was a "Faith Alone" topic)

What I told the Mormon kid back then is the same advice I tell other today when people got a question about what someone thinks?....ask them!

Ask the person what they think......

That way you don't **** a whole bunch of posts like that Mormon kid did over the position in my view of "baptism" and how it's does not save us, yet I believe it shows salvation has come.


So if anyone is unsure what Jim thinks of the position of the spirit of a person at death?.Or the first introduction of "evil" in the bible's story?...then ask Jim to address that question.
And if you ask Jim nice, Im sure he will post you his views.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Eve sinned first!

well......thats another story, but actually when you read the story you don't get that eve sinned first.

Rather there is a weird collusion between the man and Satan that led to Eve being misled as to what the law stated....

remember when Eve stated the law according to how she was taught?......
She states the law incorrectly.
Adam is "there with her" at the time, and does not correct her.

satan is there too, and while we dont know for sure that satan knew what God had told Adam, we do see that Satan seems very knowledgeable as to what God had said to adam.
What is clear is that Satan does not correct Eve too.

So both Adam and Satan heard the error that eve makes about the only law that was given at the time, and both say nothing to correct her.



It is also very important that we understand that when God confronts adam about the sin, Adam points to Eve right away .
Adam did this knowing all the time that the punishment for eating was death.
so Adam knew when he pointed at Eve as being to blame for the sin that this was likely going to mean that god would kill Eve.

the speed that Adam points to eve is not an accident.
Adam treats Eve not as an equal, but as a thing.
The moment he points to her he is telling god, "Kill her"

I believe it may have been Adam's plan all along.

This willingness to kill another , even someone so close to themselves, was not lost on Adam's children as we read in the story of Cain...