How to Remove Your Name from the LDS Records

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by neverending

I'd like to know what Adam and Eve have to do with this thread topic? And Phoenix, when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden it made them mortal.
No, they didn't die then and there for we do know that Adam lived many centuries but they were made spiritually dead, separated from God.
Also, Adam was over Eve, she was told to obey Adam by God, he took the fall for her, he should have been watching over her, she was his wife and wasn't it his *** to protect her?

Do you not believe that Eve was punished more harshly then Adam?

To have to be pregnant, go through the pain of child birth, far worse in my opinion then to have to be a farmer.

And when you think about how the world is today, women work outside the home as well as keeping a home, bearing children and all the duties of being a wife. A woman's lot in life is very harsh.

It almost sounds like someone thinks that the punishment was unequal or unfair?


He took the fall for her?...what story is that in?

and....this "obey" stuff...where is that in the story?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

So you're claiming that only Adam's sin that counted, even though he was the second person to eat the fruit? Why would that be? How is that fair?

Oh, it gets worse than that under Evangelical theology. When asked my Jesus was not "born in sin" because of Adam like all men/woman, I was told that Jesus remained sinless because only His mother was mortal.

I guess it turns out that only males must carry the "sin gene".

[alanmolstad]

if anyone needs helpful advice on how to exit the Mormon church, here is a link to some good information -

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...ovalletter.htm

[neverending]

Originally Posted by theway

Oh, it gets worse than that under Evangelical theology. When asked my Jesus was not "born in sin" because of Adam like all men/woman, I was told that Jesus remained sinless because only His mother was mortal.

I guess it turns out that only males must carry the "sin gene".

How sad that someone would say these things for it shows you don't understand about God at all. Mary was only a vessel, she didn't give Jesus anything, no DNA nothing, nada! Think of her as a surrogate, nothing more. This is why Mormonism is so wrong for you think Mary gave DNA or anything in the development of Jesus? Had Mary given anything, Jesus would have been born a girl. And since Mary was only a surrogate, and I know that Jesus is God, he was sinless! God can't justify sin of any kind so why would you even think Jesus was a sinner? Oh, how far you have fallen if this is Mormon theology.
Think back when Jesus was taken before Pilate. Pilate himself said he could find no sin in Jesus. Jesus, who knew no sin, was the only man to ever live a sinless life but only due to the fact that he was God! Not even Satan could tempt Jesus.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by neverending

[SIZE=3]How sad that someone would say these things for it shows you don't understand about God at all. Mary was only a vessel, she didn't give Jesus anything, no DNA nothing, nada!

Im not so sure about all this.....

There is merit to the idea that Jesus got all his humanity from Mary.

[alanmolstad]

The MAN Christ Jesus...






see the deal is, unless Jesus is fully 100% human as I am, his resurrection is a moot point.

So Jesus has to be fully a normal 100% human.

This means that Jesus has to share our human history,,,our DNA.....everything.
The alternative is that Jesus only looked human....and that would make him a faker.
It would also mean that Jesus could never be able to call us "brothers"
For no matter what, he would always be different, always just a thing that "looked" like us, but was never really one of us.

But the Bible makes sure we understand that Jesus is our example.
If you want to know if God can raise a human back to life?..just look at the body of Jesus.
Jesus has a 100% human body...he shares our history, our DNA, everything that makes us.

That is why can can trust the God who raised Jesus to life to also be able to raise us to life in the same way.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by theway

Oh, it gets worse than that under Evangelical theology. When asked my Jesus was not "born in sin" because of Adam like all men/woman, I was told that Jesus remained sinless because only His mother was mortal.

I guess it turns out that only males must carry the "sin gene".

I don't know about your mother, but my mom never.......
Okay we know your mormon god came down and did the u no what with his daughter Mary, but you mormon god aint got nothin to do with the God of the Holy Bible.
This may be why you TBMs can't get it; Jesus of the Holy Bible was not born into sin!

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

That is not what you said... Here is what you said before you decided you needed to backpedal.


Adam was the only man that sinned and until that day no sin existed before God..

Yes Adam was the only man that sinned.. Satan was an angel not a man so what I said was that Adam was the only man that sinned, I was telling the truth.. I have now said it over and over again but you refuse to understand.. I know what I said and you are trying to twist it.. I know the meaning of what was said I WROTE IT.. You can't come in behind me and tell me what my words mean when I stand up and say that you are wrong about how you see them.. I have told you what they mean that should be good enough for an intelligent person, now we shall see if you are one of us or not.. There is no backpedaling by me here.. There is just a man who has trouble understanding.. No one else has had trouble with my words.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Not sure what about the Genesis story or your post is so hard for The Way to understand?

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The MAN Christ Jesus...






see the deal is, unless Jesus is fully 100% human as I am, his resurrection is a moot point.

So Jesus has to be fully a normal 100% human.

This means that Jesus has to share our human history,,,our DNA.....everything.
The alternative is that Jesus only looked human....and that would make him a faker.
It would also mean that Jesus could never be able to call us "brothers"
For no matter what, he would always be different, always just a thing that "looked" like us, but was never really one of us.

But the Bible makes sure we understand that Jesus is our example.
If you want to know if God can raise a human back to life?..just look at the body of Jesus.
Jesus has a 100% human body...he shares our history, our DNA, everything that makes us.

That is why can can trust the God who raised Jesus to life to also be able to raise us to life in the same way.

Of course Jesus was a MAN!! Did he not have masculine parts? But God gave Jesus everything necessary for him to develop within Mary's womb. To think otherwise is to make God less then God and not capable of doing much of anything. I am sorry but I totally disagree with you. With your thinking, Eve should have been a man since she was made from one of Adam's ribs and would have all his DNA. Think about it.

[alanmolstad]

well....in the same way all the human DNA of Eve was from Adam.....ther was no outside source of human Dna outside Adam for Eve and Mary for Jesus.

[alanmolstad]

the moment you say that jesus got some of his human DNA from the Father you end up teaching Mormonism...

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by neverending

I'd like to know what Adam and Eve have to do with this thread topic?

As far as I can tell, the first person to inject the topic of the Fall into this thread was someone named Jim Banta, who ****ed in when I had asked Alan this question:

They act, on average, like the average human being, and that causes you to think badly of them?

And Jim "answered" with this:

If you really believed that wouldn't you agree that the heart of man is deceitful ABOVE ALL things and desperately wicked? Instead of the LDS doctrine that other than the ability to have children and experience physical death the fall had no effect of us? IHS jim

So perhaps you should ask Jim Banta what that has to do with the thread topic.

And Phoenix, when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden it made them mortal.

Correct. But to be precise, the Bible seems to imply that it was no longer having access to the fruit of the tree of immortality that made them mortal.

No, they didn't die then and there for we do know that Adam lived many centuries but they were made spiritually dead, separated from God.

I agree, as does LDS doctrine.

Also, Adam was over Eve, she was told to obey Adam by God, he took the fall for her, he should have been watching over her, she was his wife and wasn't it his *** to protect her?

That is an interesting idea you have there--that Adam took the "fall" for his wife. She was the guilty one, but he nobly accepted the responsibility for what she did. I have never thought of it quite that way before. Interesting.

Do you not believe that Eve was punished more harshly then Adam? To have to be pregnant, go through the pain of child birth, far worse in my opinion then to have to be a farmer.

I agree with you. Reminds me of a joke I heard today, though. Maybe I will tell it later.

And when you think about how the world is today, women work outside the home as well as keeping a home, bearing children and all the duties of being a wife. A woman's lot in life is very harsh. [/SIZE]

It definitely can be very harsh indeed.




Okay, here's the joke: It's often said that women have it worse than men because the pain of childbirth is worse than any pain a man could feel. But which pain is worse: A woman's childbirth pain, or a man's pain when he is kicked in the ___?
Answer: The man's pain. After all, a few years after having a baby, you will often hear a woman say she'd like to have another baby. But you will never, ever hear a man say he'd like to get kicked in the ___ again!

[alanmolstad]

i trust i answered the question....

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Not sure what about the Genesis story or your post is so hard for The Way to understand?

He wants Satan to be the first "man" that sinned.. I disagree with that.. I understand his complaint but but Satan is not human.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

He wants Satan to be the first "man" that sinned.. I disagree with that.. I understand his complaint but but Satan is not human.. IHS jim

i have been looking into the connections the mormons have with Satan.. http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_experience.htm

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

As far as I can tell, the first person to inject the topic of the Fall into this thread was someone named Jim Banta, who ****ed in when I had asked Alan this question:



And Jim "answered" with this:


So perhaps you should ask Jim Banta what that has to do with the thread topic.


Correct. But to be precise, the Bible seems to imply that it was no longer having access to the fruit of the tree of immortality that made them mortal.


I agree, as does LDS doctrine.


That is an interesting idea you have there--that Adam took the "fall" for his wife. She was the guilty one, but he nobly accepted the responsibility for what she did. I have never thought of it quite that way before. Interesting.


I agree with you. Reminds me of a joke I heard today, though. Maybe I will tell it later.


It definitely can be very harsh indeed.




Okay, here's the joke: It's often said that women have it worse than men because the pain of childbirth is worse than any pain a man could feel. But which pain is worse: A woman's childbirth pain, or a man's pain when he is kicked in the ___?
Answer: The man's pain. After all, a few years after having a baby, you will often hear a woman say she'd like to have another baby. But you will never, ever hear a man say he'd like to get kicked in the ___ again!

Yes, I am sure getting kicked in a very sensitive area is not good and is painful but that pain lasts for a minute where as child birth lasts hours. Don't get me wrong, I always cringe when I've watched episodes of Funniest Home Videos. Ok, I see now how this tread got derailed and what can one do? It always seems to happen. Yep, I've done it now Oh, and I think Adam was the hero, to take the fall for Eve but then, since she was made from one of his ribs, I guess he felt the responsibility for her and was willing to except it and take the punishment. I still think that women got the short end of the stick.

[theway]

Originally Posted by neverending

How sad that someone would say these things for it shows you don't understand about God at all. Mary was only a vessel, she didn't give Jesus anything, no DNA nothing, nada! Think of her as a surrogate, nothing more. This is why Mormonism is so wrong for you think Mary gave DNA or anything in the development of Jesus? Had Mary given anything,

Really?? So then whose blood was running through Christ's veins while He was a fetus?

You guys also like to say that that Christ was not of the same species as us, so then where did Christ get His humanity from? Or how could He be "fully man"

When you think about it, your views of who Christ is is rather sick, it makes it sound like He was born of one of His pets.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by theway

Really?? So then whose blood was running through Christ's veins while He was a fetus?

You guys also like to say that that Christ was not of the same species as us, so then where did Christ get His humanity from? Or how could He be "fully man"

a baby does not have its mothers blood inside it...the blood of an unborn and its mother do not mix

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by neverending

Yes, I am sure getting kicked in a very sensitive area is not good and is painful but that pain lasts for a minute where as child birth lasts hours.

That is very true.

Don't get me wrong, I always cringe when I've watched episodes of Funniest Home Videos.

But you are right: within a few minutes, the guy is probably laughing with his friends about it. With one of our kids, my wife was in labor for something like 10 hours.

Ok, I see now how this tread got derailed and what can one do? It always seems to happen. Yep, I've done it now Oh, and I think Adam was the hero, to take the fall for Eve but then, since she was made from one of his ribs, I guess he felt the responsibility for her and was willing to except it and take the punishment. I still think that women got the short end of the stick.

No argument from me on any of that.

[alanmolstad]

and Adam did not take the fall for his wife!

he actually tried to place all the blame on to her!!!!

in other words....Adam tried to have his wife killed

[theway]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

a baby does not have its mothers blood inside it...the blood of an unborn and its mother do not mix

I stand corrected...

However the rest of my comment remains...

Do you view Christ as a different species than us.

[theway]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

and Adam did not take the fall for his wife!

he actually tried to place all the blame on to her!!!!

in other words....Adam tried to have his wife killed

Once again, at that time he would have had no concept of what death was. So why would he have wanted her killed?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by theway

I stand corrected...

However the rest of my comment remains...

Do you view Christ as a different species than us.

see.......the reason you ask me that is that none of my posts to Neverending to correct her have been all that interesting to you to bother reading.....

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by theway

Once again, at that time he would have had no concept of what death was. So why would he have wanted her killed?

i cant tell you what he was thinking!......

i can only tell what it says he did....and he knew eating was death....and so pointing to her as being the reason was attempting to have her killed