How to Remove Your Name from the LDS Records

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by theway

Once again, at that time he would have had no concept of what death was. So why would he have wanted her killed?

I hate posting with my phone, so let me try that again...


I dont know what Adam was thinking...I cant read his mind.
I cant tell you what he knew about stuff that is not recorded in the bible.
I only know what the text clearly shows us.
I only know what he did.

I read that Adam was told that if he ate he would die.
Adam ate.
When confronted by God, The same God that had already told him that eating meant death, Adam pointed right away to Eve as being to blame.

Adam was told eating meant death, yet he pointed to his wife as being to blame for his eating.

This is what he know for sure happend.
We also know that Adam did NOT try to "take the fall" for his wife, (an idea that Neverending has tried to tell you a few times, but it's very much in disagreement with the events in the story)

Not only did Adam not take the fall for his wife, he tried to pin the blame onto just her knowing full well because of God's law that the result of this would likely mean her death.

[alanmolstad]

Oh, and another thing....

People that try to answer about the time it took Adam to die by saying, "Adam did die that day, but spiritually" are just fooling themselves if they think that is a good answer.

The "death" that Adam was warned about in the Law, was a death of the physical body.....It is the death that is later dished out by God in the whole speech about "by the sweat of your brow,... and the thistles" stuff.

That is the type of death God warned Adam he would suffer, and that is the death Adam did suffer.

It is also the type of death that Jesus had to also suffer to pay for the sin of Adam.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

see.......the reason you ask me that is that none of my posts to Neverending to correct her have been all that interesting to you to bother reading.....

alan, just what do you need to correct me about? And if you have a problem with anything I've said, it would be very adult of you to send me a private message. This comment makes you look very arrogant and you know, you are no better then anyone else!
Since there is so much that is unknown about Adam and Eve, there is much speculation flying around this thread. I think many people have their own ideas even if there is no scripture to back it up. All we need to know is that Eve was deceived by Satan to eat of the fruit. She then went to Adam and told him, at which time he ate the fruit too. When they discovered they were naked, Adam gathered fig leaves to cover their bodies and when God came calling, both Adam and Eve were hiding and embarr***ed. God discovered what they had done, was angry with them, cursed the snake and kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden where they had to fend for themselves; Eve had to have pain in bearing children and Adam had to work hard and sweat to provide. That's about it. The condensed version.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by neverending

[SIZE=3] ......She then went to Adam and told him, ......

"Then went"???????

She went eh?

She had to track down the old husband then eh?

You know what it's like?....it's like you have not even read the story once in your life.
I think you make so many errors because you are simply unfamiliar with the events of the Genesis story....

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by neverending

..........God discovered what they had done, .......

God discovered something eh?

You think God learned this?...Your idea is that God "discovered" what they did?

Thats really what you think happened?
That is your idea of what God's nature is like?....he discovers things?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by neverending

She then went to Adam and told him,

"Told him"???

Could you quote me what she told him?

I would like to see you try to do that...

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by neverending

Adam gathered fig leaves to cover their bodies

Adam did this?.....

So Adam went around and got a bunch of leaves for BOTH of them?.......

You think this is what the text actually says?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by neverending

...... I think many people have their own ideas even if there is no scripture to back it up. .....

Oh I think we all see that very clearly....

[James Banta]

[Phoenix;153587]So that same day that Eve ate the apple and then had Adam eat it next, that same day they both died? But doesn't the Bible say that Adam died like 930 years after the apple eating incident? (Genesis 5:5)

That would be a huge problem and contradiction of the Bible wouldn't? But Adam was cast out of the Garden dying spiritually. I really don't care who calls that spiritual death a belief of a simple mind it happens to be the only teaching that is consistent to the Bible.. Adam did live to be 930 years old so that was a few more days longer than what God said about his longevity if he ate the fruit.. Still Adam was forcefully separated from God that very day.. This doesn't require a doctoral degree to figure out.. It was a spiritual death Adam suffered when He ate the fruit..

The issue is whether humans were able to disobey God before Adam and Eve had all those children and grandchildren. Adam and Eve pretty much proved that it wasn't impossible for humans to disobey God, right from the beginning.

Of couese it was possible.. It comes down to Adam making a choice.. He didn't have to sin, sinning wasn't his nature. As to sin Adam had no compulsion to sin nor to be obedient. he was innocent in such decisions.. Since that time it hasn't been so.. Man is conceived a sinner.. If we tell even a child not to think of green Zebras the first thing he thinks of is green zebras. Adam would have said, ok and not bothered to disobey..

This proves that all us descendants of Adam and Eve had the ability to disobey God all by ourselves, regardless what the first two humans did. That is because each of us has the same freedom to make bad choices that Adam and Eve had. They proved that we didn't inherit some "sin" DNA from them. After all, if they could disobey God, then who put the sin DNA into them?

Yes we all have the ability to sin. Angels have the ability to sin.. The difference here is we don't have the ability to be obedient.. Given good and bad choices at some time in some way all the members of humanity will choose bad. I agree that our DNA has nothing to do with this this is a flaw common to all members of humanity. It is wired into our minds, our souls.. Even your BofM describes this fact.. "The nature man is an enemy of God". We are first born natural and then by faith in Jesus we are born again spiritual from above..

So you're claiming that only Adam's sin that counted, even though he was the second person to eat the fruit? Why would that be? How is that fair?

I claim that the Bible is true and Adam is pointed at in th Bible as being the one by whom sin entered the world.. Can you point to any verse that points at Eve as the person that brought sin into the world? I can't.. Show me what you can do..

".... as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death p***ed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12)..

Great verse it is supporting what I am saying here..

My point was merely that it's not Adam's fault that we sin. It's not Eve's fault, either, if that makes you feel any better.

And yet since that day Adam was ejected from the garden, not one man, woman, or child has been obedient to God. And that because we are under the curse of Adam brought into the world through His sin..

The verse could be saying that since Adam got here first, everything that happened afterward happened "by one man."

Then why has every one that has ever lived, sinned? It is because Adam and His wife were sinners and that is all their children could be.. We could call ducks swimmers. Why? Because swimming is their nature. And where did that nature come from? Their parents.. We are sinners for the same reason.. Our parents were sinners so we are sinners..

If Adam had never arrived on the scene, Eve wouldn't have either, since she was made from a piece of him, the Bible says. Through Adam, Eve happened, so through Adam, the first act of disobedience entered the human race. But that is irrelevant to the real point, which is that the myth of a "sin nature" that we all inherited from Adam is a myth. We sin because we choose to, not because Adam's sin forces us to. No one forced Adam to sin, and he didn't have an inherited sin nature. Do you disagree with that?

A sin nature doesn't force us to sin.. It instead in like that duck. We don't sin because of it.. A duck doesn't have to swim. They can survive without swimming but given the chance they will swim. We can live without sinning but given a choice we will sin.. The only way to explain that is it is our nature.. It is what we are sinners.. That is no myth.. It has shown it's self to be fact in ever single human life that has ever been lived.. Not one was without sin.. If it wasn't "Only Human" to sin them someone somewhere, at sometime would have lived a life without sin.. No one save Jesus has ever done so and He had no sin nature.. What you call a myth is far from myth it is fact.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

it was not spiritual death!

that is an invented answer that is used because it "sounds" right......not because it is right

[alanmolstad]

the death warned about in the law is the physical death god discribes later......same type of death

[alanmolstad]

the death warned about in the "do not eat" law.....is the same type of death God talks about later when God lists the stuff about "sweat..."......and its the same type of death Adam does die........and the same type of death Jesus died....the same type i will die

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I posted the above with my phone, and its so hard to post stuff on that!

But I think the point I was getting at is that a lot of people think that have to come-up with a reason why Adam did not just drop over dead the moment he got caught eating from the tree.

So the reason that they invent is the well-known "He died Spiritually".

I simply think this answer is not the type of death the Bible is talking about.

The reason people come-up with this answer is that they are afraid that if their invented answer is not true that this means that the Text is in error.

So the Bible student feels this push to come up with an answer .

This answer that people have dreamed-up (that Adam did die right away but only "died Spiritually" ) is not based on the text at all, but rather is the result of what people see clearly as a contradiction that they hope to cover-over with a nice sounding answer.

I believe this is a very poor way to read the Bible.

I believe that well-meaning Bible students are reading the bible but then changing things to be what the person thinks the text "should say" rather than just reading the text for what it "does" say.


When you read the text as it appears you don't find any support for the "Died Spiritually" convenient answer that so many rely on to keep the Bible from appearing to contradict itself.




So, the death that Adam is warned about is the death that Jesus had to also die in order to redeem us from the type of death we suffer due to Adam.

Had the death Jesus died been different than the death that Adam was warned about and died from, then the cross would be a moot point.

So the death Jesus suffered was the common death we all die going all the way back to Adam and all the way back to the warning within that very first Law that God gave men...(Do not eat)

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

That would be a huge problem and contradiction of the Bible wouldn't? .......

Nope...
the contradiction is that people , including some very good Bible students, will on the one hand talk about the need to stick closely to the text as read,,,YET the moment they start dealing with Adam's death the same bible students will feel the need to invent their own answers that simply are not supported and even hinted at in the Text.

All this work just to escape a problem they think might happen if they don't come up with some sort of answer that sounds good.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Oh I think we all see that very clearly....

alan, so you sit there, doing your best to make yourself look so good??? Shame you can't read. When I made my comment, if you had read it, I said it was a CONDENSED VERSION! Do you get it??? It was trying to explain Adam and Eve in a simple way, not trying to sound so wonderful and hey, I've been to Bible School so I know everything!! I ASKED YOU TO SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE IF YOU HAD A PROBLEM BUT NO, NOT YOU! NO, YOU WANT TO DO EVERYTHING TO MAKE ME LOOK FOOLISH AND I TAKE OFFENSE TO THAT! You want to make an enemy of me, so be it!! You can go and play in the rush hour traffic! And you want to report me to Jill, feel free for I don't give a rat's behind if she banned me from this forum of arrogant, self righteous know it all's. If I had had my breakfast already, I'd be off puking after reading your RUDE comments!! I wish you'd go find some other place to be rude for your not welcome here in my book! ****!!

[alanmolstad]

Notice how importnt my words look in all CAPS!

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by neverending

alan, so you sit there, doing your best to make yourself look so good??? Shame you can't read. When I made my comment, if you had read it, I said it was a CONDENSED VERSION! Do you get it??? It was trying to explain Adam and Eve in a simple way, not trying to sound so wonderful and hey, I've been to Bible School so I know everything!! I ASKED YOU TO SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE IF YOU HAD A PROBLEM BUT NO, NOT YOU! NO, YOU WANT TO DO EVERYTHING TO MAKE ME LOOK FOOLISH AND I TAKE OFFENSE TO THAT! You want to make an enemy of me, so be it!! You can go and play in the rush hour traffic! And you want to report me to Jill, feel free for I don't give a rat's behind if she banned me from this forum of arrogant, self righteous know it all's. If I had had my breakfast already, I'd be off puking after reading your RUDE comments!! I wish you'd go find some other place to be rude for your not welcome here in my book! ****!!

I am sorry you are having such a bad experience here.. I don't see why it seem necessary to slam other Christian posters.. It's one thing when the LDS do it but I understand it is extra hard to get it from someone that says they are a brother.. I am not here to do so, so I will let such posters be and go on myself to show the truth of Jesus to the lost.. They still need to see and understand that the Lord our God is one Lord. That the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate individuals but they are one God. One in nature, in purpose and one in their very BEING.. It is not questionable as God revealed to Moses that the Lord our God in ONE LORD.. Jesus confirmed that so to believe any man that comes out teaching that we have three Gods and who can contradict it when Jesus clearly does contradict it is on a fools errand. Again I am sorry this has been going on here, I will always be there for you and on your side in all matters.. IHS jim

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I am sorry you are having such a bad experience here.. I don't see why it seem necessary to slam other Christian posters.. It's one thing when the LDS do it but I understand it is extra hard to get it from someone that says they are a brother.. I am not here to do so, so I will let such posters be and go on myself to show the truth of Jesus to the lost.. They still need to see and understand that the Lord our God is one Lord. That the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate individuals but they are one God. One in nature, in purpose and one in their very BEING.. It is not questionable as God revealed to Moses that the Lord our God in ONE LORD.. Jesus confirmed that so to believe any man that comes out teaching that we have three Gods and who can contradict it when Jesus clearly does contradict it is on a fools errand. Again I am sorry this has been going on here, I will always be there for you and on your side in all matters.. IHS jim

It seems kind of strange that the only regular posters are alan, neverending, and James. As I understand it, James and neverending are married. So we have alan and neverending arguing with each other and calling each other names. And James apparently trying to keep the peace, but in a weird way since he doesn't need to type to us on the forum the things he could say to his wife in private.

So this is what the "Mormonism" forum of WM has become?

[alanmolstad]

Oh I dont mind any of that...

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Zeus

It seems kind of strange that the only regular posters are alan, neverending, and James. As I understand it, James and neverending are married. So we have alan and neverending arguing with each other and calling each other names. And James apparently trying to keep the peace, but in a weird way since he doesn't need to type to us on the forum the things he could say to his wife in private.

So this is what the "Mormonism" forum of WM has become?

A family emailing together stays together, so sweet.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

A family emailing together stays together, so sweet.

I know a couple that enjoys "facebook date Night", where the wife is at one end of the couch and the husband is at the other, and they text each other and ask questions ...

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I know a couple that enjoys "facebook date Night", where the wife is at one end of the couch and the husband is at the other, and they text each other and ask questions ...

Because of your lack of respect for me as a woman and a sister in Christ, you have created a hostile forum. You may think your comments are funny but I hope others can see how rude they are and not pay any attention to you. Have a good life for you have chased me away and I think that was your plan all along. Apologette won't come here anymore so pat yourself on the back alan. I really feel sorry for you for you can't see what I do and many others.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I know a couple that enjoys "facebook date Night", where the wife is at one end of the couch and the husband is at the other, and they text each other and ask questions ...

One must know when it' time, and I think it is time.
Now back to LDSinc. and the Imaginary mind of Joseph Smith jr.

[neverending]

RFH: some of your comments I've chuckled at but this was NOT funny but rude! Maybe you should try being serious for a change.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by neverending

RFH: some of your comments I've chuckled at but this was NOT funny but rude! Maybe you should try being serious for a change.

Oh, well, I was trying to put a stop to all this, and move on, so let hope so.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by neverending

Because of your lack of respect for me as a woman and a sister in Christ, you have created a hostile forum. You may think your comments are funny but I hope others can see how rude they are and not pay any attention to you. Have a good life for you have chased me away and I think that was your plan all along. Apologette won't come here anymore so pat yourself on the back alan. I really feel sorry for you for you can't see what I do and many others.

What happened to Apologette? Did she say she was leaving?