How to Remove Your Name from the LDS Records

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Zeus

What happened to Apologette? Did she say she was leaving?

I don't believe she thought she needed to ask us whether or not she could be here or leave.. It's a free forum.. IHS jim

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I don't believe she thought she needed to ask us whether or not she could be here or leave.. It's a free forum.. IHS jim

Of course it is. I was wondering if she actually stated to neverending her intentions to not return.

Please don't feel the need to be so argumentative, James, when my question was addressed to neverending.

[alanmolstad]

The reason so many Bible students feel the need to invent the idea that when Adam died he did so "spiritually" is that the Bible student feels that there must be some reason why Adam lived as long as he did, given the the Bible states the Law as saying that the "day" anyone ate they would die.

That's the dilemma some people think the Bible has going there.

The bible student wants to maintain the idea that the Bible has no contradictions, and so when the student runs smack into the fact that the Bible teaches that anyone who eats will die that very "day" and the fact that Adam ate and yet lived for hundreds of years, they see a problem.

The fact is that the idea of Adam dieing "spiritually" is not talked about in the Law or in the account of the fall, yet only because its an answer that seems to fit and sounds right, is that answer brought up and pushed as if it's the only correct answer.

I admit, this "He died Spiritually" is a handy invented answer.
Yes, it may not fit the context and has nothing to do with any thing written in the story, but it does keep some bible students happy.

They feel happy because they have patched what they think was a HUGE hole in the text.

They have "saved" the bible from looking bad!


But the trouble is, that is not the correct way to read the bible.
You should never look at a verse and try to make it "fit" with what you want it to say.
And, if you think that your Holy Book is written that poorly right at the very start it needs to have invented answers tossed into it to make it work?, then you clearly got the wrong Holy Book in your hands.



So whats the answer?

Do we actually need to use this invented answer of "Adam did die that day, just spiritually" in order to save the bible from clearly being contradictory?......no.

No?.....
The answer is No.

The answer to this is to back up and notice that the only word that is the source of the trouble within the story is this one little word "day"

People look at the word "day" and right away give it the meaning of "24 hours"
Once they have replaced the word "day" with the meaning of "24 hours" they are stuck in a clear dilemma because Adam did not die within the allowed "24 hours">
This is when the bible student will add to the story the idea of "Adam Died Spiritually" to the story to escape the dilemma.


However all you have to do is point out that the actual answer to their dilemma is found at Genesis 2:4

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Of course it is. I was wondering if she actually stated to neverending her intentions to not return.

Please don't feel the need to be so argumentative, James, when my question was addressed to neverending.

I can answer for NE.. She received no correspondence from Apologette.. You may send her (Apologette) an email and ask her yourself.. You may also leave NE totally alone.. She doesn't want to talk to anyone here any longer.. This is due to the rudeness she felt from Allen.. Allen she can take attacks from the LDS here but not from those who should be her brothers and sisters, no.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Zeus

It seems kind of strange that the only regular posters are alan, neverending, and James. As I understand it, James and neverending are married. So we have alan and neverending arguing with each other and calling each other names. And James apparently trying to keep the peace, but in a weird way since he doesn't need to type to us on the forum the things he could say to his wife in private.

So this is what the "Mormonism" forum of WM has become?

Participation here ebbs and flows. When posting ebbs.. We await the time when it flows again.. It will.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Nope...
the contradiction is that people , including some very good Bible students, will on the one hand talk about the need to stick closely to the text as read,,,YET the moment they start dealing with Adam's death the same bible students will feel the need to invent their own answers that simply are not supported and even hinted at in the Text.

All this work just to escape a problem they think might happen if they don't come up with some sort of answer that sounds good.

What can I say.. We could do an "Is So, Is not" argument on this all day.. Does it matter to our salvation? Must I believe that God promised Physical death to Adam in order to be saved. Must you believe that the death God promised was issued on the very day the sin was commited? NOPE.. As I read the Bible it all about Jesus. All He did for us in taking on humanity and dying that we might live.. I will not stop believing that Adam died spiritually that very day as sin fill filled his heart and p***ed that nature on to all the rest of us.. You can see something different there, then believe it teach it but always keep your eyes on Jesus.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

The law that Adam broke, and it's "death" had to be paid for on the cross...

The death that Adam suffered had to be the same type Jesus suffered too, or else something is left out and not covered by the blood of Christ.

the "he died spiritually" idea is only popular and talked about because of the need people feel to insert it into the story due to only one reason.....The "day" problem.

But as I have pointed out at genesis 2:4, the use of the term "day" in the same book of Genesis does not have a mandated meaning of only 24hours at all.....and it never did.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I can answer for NE..

Okay.

She received no correspondence from Apologette.. You may send her (Apologette) an email and ask her yourself..

Okay. It sounded like she had when she stated, "you have chased me away ...Apologette won't come here anymore..."

You may also leave NE totally alone..

Well, if she is no longer posting here then I have no reason to talk with her, obviously.

She doesn't want to talk to anyone here any longer..

It happens.

This is due to the rudeness she felt from Allen..

No need to continue to air dirty laundry. But I must say that having read many exchanges between neverending and alan, she wasn't exactly a beacon of civility and charm toward him or others either. It could be a case of dishing it out but not being able to take it from my view.

she can take attacks from the LDS here but not from those who should be her brothers and sisters, no.. IHS jim

Sounds like personal issues that you guys should work out off the forum.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Participation here ebbs and flows. When posting ebbs.. We await the time when it flows again.. It will.. IHS jim

I've never seen it flow.

At this point I see you and alan arguing with each other over interpretations of the fall. Neverending has left for personal issues with Alan, Apologette is said to not be coming back, RealFakeHair posts a quip here and there that doesn't usually add any insight to a topic.

That's about it. Not a whole lot more going on here, and given this is the only forum on the Walter Martin site that gets any attention, it appears this place is reminiscent of a morgue.

[alanmolstad]

in other words....I have a clear stage and a captive audience?.....
(ahh, my dream come true)

The difference with different forums that im a member of is that on a lot of forums I post something, then return to the forum about 3 hours later and my post is totally forgotten and no one got a chance to read it.
Thats what too much foot traffic does, it buries our posts underneath a lot of other silly posts.....

I like the chance to stretch my theological legs here on the Walter Martin Forum and really try to write things down that come from my heart.

and its also nice to know that while my posts might not get read by many people, they will yet still really to sink-in to the one or two who read them .......sink-in deeply, .....(very deeply it would appear..LOL)

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

in other words....I have a clear stage and a captive audience?.....
(ahh, my dream come true)

The difference with different forums that im a member of is that on a lot of forums I post something, then return to the forum about 3 hours later and my post is totally forgotten and no one got a chance to read it.
Thats what too much foot traffic does, it buries our posts underneath a lot of other silly posts.....

I like the chance to stretch my theological legs here on the Walter Martin Forum and really try to write things down that come from my heart.

and its also nice to know that while my posts might not get read by many people, they will yet still really to sink-in to the one or two who read them .......sink-in deeply, .....(very deeply it would appear..LOL)

You seem quite proud of your posts. If you are looking for a platform to share your nuggets of thoughts, why not just create your own blog or website? As it is, you sound like you are content with running people off so you can use someone else's website and money for your own personal musings.

[alanmolstad]

I also like the idea that no one has their posts overlooked on this forum.

If any of us post an comment, it gets read....its not pushed off to the side.

If you post it, I read it.

I also like the fact that we dont have guys who cuss and swear here, or go around breaking the rules we all try to conform to...

I know....that perhaps on the outside a guy looking at our forum here might say, "It's kinda dead"
But I don't think we should be ashamed of that at all.

I remember when Jesus was preaching to thousands of people one moment, and in the next moment the huge crowd left him disgusted ....Jesus was suddenly down to just his little band of guys once again.
I'm sure on the outside that must have been kinda discouraging to some of the guys...

But Jesus was never a guy who could catch and hold the big crowds...

Jesus is more likely found within the gatherings of only 2 or 3 people

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Zeus

You seem quite proud of your posts. If you are looking for a platform to share your nuggets of thoughts, why not just create your own blog or website? .

well,,...suddenly that sounds like a lot of work.....

I post for fun,,,,,but mostly because its no work at all...

I would hate for this to turn into a ***...LOL

Tell you what, if you start your own website, I promise to visit and spark a few conversations

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Zeus

......money ......

We are all guests here.
So we all enjoy the opportunity to come here and exchange views on many topics.
But the decision to start this website and keep it going is not really up to us, nor does our being here effect it one way or the other.

We all thank the owner...we should tell her we all enjoy the opportunity...and we should follow the rules as given us to follow.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Zeus

As it is, you sound like you are content with running people off ....

It is impossable for me to "run" anyone off of anything.

My posts are always respectful and well thought out.
I point out things that I notice, I challenge people with questions, but i never call names, I dont tell people what to do, and I never tell people to be quiet.

I believe my reputation on this website is that i dont play favorites, im not on any team....I dont really cover-up stuff that people do just because i share a few views with them....

In other words, I treat people completely equal....Mormon, Christian non-believer,, it does not matter to me what they are as i will always treat them the same......as the Golden Rule leads.

What more can we ask of each other?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Zeus

You seem quite proud of your posts. ..

yes, I stand behind my comments recorded here.

But I also seek to have my views challenged to see if anyone can poke holes in my views.
That is part of the give and take of these types of forums.

I have posted a great many things here....if there is anything you have a question about, if I have posted an idea of a comment you call into question, then ask me to return to that subject and make more my answer more clear.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

yes, I stand behind my comments recorded here.

But I also seek to have my views challenged to see if anyone can poke holes in my views.
That is part of the give and take of these types of forums.

I have posted a great many things here....if there is anything you have a question about, if I have posted an idea of a comment you call into question, then ask me to return to that subject and make more my answer more clear.

I never try and close down anyone's idea or thoughts, because my own are superior to all others. I do come here and other sites on the pretense of perhaps of being wrong.

[alanmolstad]

i would hope that in the future that a person could be able to drop their name off the MORMON membership list on their home computer.....

So rather than needing to write a letter the person can just go "click-click" with their computer mouse and be done with ever needing to deal with other Mormons.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

i would hope that in the future that a person could be able to drop their name off the MORMON membership list on their home computer.....

So rather than needing to write a letter the person can just go "click-click" with their computer mouse and be done with ever needing to deal with other Mormons.

Then the same system could be used for terminating one's membership in any church anywhere. And for terminating one's U.S. citizenship, or one's credit cards and magazine subscriptions. All without verification of the person's ID and true intentions. So a mischievous neighborhood kid could mess around on your computer while he's visiting, and end your membership in your church, your citizenship, etc.

Are you sure your idea has been thought through?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

So a mischievous neighborhood kid could mess around on your computer while he's visiting, and end your membership in your church, your citizenship, etc.

Or an anti-Mormon "ministry" could get hold of a ward directory and resign an entire ward at once...

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Or an anti-Mormon "ministry" could get hold of a ward directory and resign an entire ward at once...

Looks to me as though the LDS church has safe guards in place for a non authorized person making such a request.. After the request is confirmed there shouldn't be any delay in conforming to the wishes of those that wish to resign.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Then the same system could be used for terminating one's membership in any church anywhere. And for terminating one's U.S. citizenship, or one's credit cards and magazine subscriptions. All without verification

Kinda ****ing that out of proportion...but if you log-on with the normal p***word that only you know...I dont see a problem.
Cutting connections with a CULT should be always easy to do so we can help save people.

as far as resigning from the whole country?...well, I think you should be able to, but you have to make sure you pay any debts to the country you owe....

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I've never seen it flow.

At this point I see you and alan arguing with each other over interpretations of the fall. Neverending has left for personal issues with Alan, Apologette is said to not be coming back, RealFakeHair posts a quip here and there that doesn't usually add any insight to a topic.

That's about it. Not a whole lot more going on here, and given this is the only forum on the Walter Martin site that gets any attention, it appears this place is reminiscent of a morgue.

UNLIKE ALLEN I DON'T COME HERE FOR THE FUN OF IT. I COME HERE FOR MINISTRY.. If others don't wish to include themselves in ministry they shouldn't post here.. I am not the Holy Spirit so I don't judge them for what they do or don't do.. As our LDS members are banned from CARM they come back here and the discussion grows. When they can post on CARM they do so and we ebb here.. I like WM so I stay here.. If you don't you can leave any time you wish.. CARM has some solid Christian posters that can correct the unbiblical LDS perversions that are taught and held by the church.. Here there are fewer of us to stand up for truth.. If you need more comments on the same subjects by all means go to CARM.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

UNLIKE ALLEN I DON'T COME HERE FOR THE FUN OF IT. .....

well that's cool....must be kinda disappointing to run into us guys like me then....

oh well.....
(In my defense I do like kittens)

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by James Banta

UNLIKE ALLEN .....

on a side note:

I was named after a Hollywood actor named "Alan Ladd"