Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678
Results 176 to 193 of 193

Thread: How to Remove Your Name from the LDS Records

  1. #176
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    627

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    There is no free will for fallen human beings since they are under the sway of Satan, subject to the one who holds captive their wills - Satan.
    Great, then obviously I'm not a fallen human being under the sway of Satan.

    They not only deny the Lord Jesus Christ, they seek to replace Him.
    So you lie.

  2. #177
    neverending
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    You mean like removing a member from the membership rolls merely because the member hasn't been to church for a few weeks or months?

    That is what some people claim their church does, and claim it's a good thing, and are demanding that the LDS do it.

    In my ward, a lady hadn't come to church for over a year--perhaps several years. She recently started coming to church again. When she heard that the relief society and the missionaries had a list of inactive members whose names were soon to be removed from the rolls, she got alarmed and upset.

    She said "If anyone would have done that to me during the time I wasn't attending church, I would have been very angry. How do they know that I no longer believe the doctrines? How do they know I want my name removed?"

    Then it was explained to her that the only members whose names were being removed, were members who had told us that's what they wanted--it's what they had demanded, actually. Then she was okay with what we were doing.

    And that is why we don't automatically remove the names of people who have quit attending church. To do it without being told that's what they want, to just ***ume that was what they wanted, would be like taking their freedom to choose away. We'd be taking away their freedom to choose to stop attending for a while but to still remain a member.
    What then does the LDS Church do with the jack Mormons who haven't been to a Sacrament Meeting in decades? Take my brother for an example. He stopped going to church when he was 17, at which time he began smoking and drinking, got his girlfriend pregnant, had to get married and has never had a desire to go to church. If you ask him what religion he is, he'll say....."I'm a Mormon" even though he has told me he doesn't believe in the Bible, or God. So, why hasn't your church kicked him out? Because he is part of your 15 million members even though the majority of them don't attend church but are jack Mormons like my brother.

  3. #178
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Great, then obviously I'm not a fallen human being under the sway of Satan.


    So you lie.
    The BofM teaches that the natural man is an enemy of God.. Please tell us all what a natural man is? My flesh is natural and is engrossed in sin. Like Paul thatwhich is good and I wish to do I don't do, but that which is evil and I wish not to do THAT I DO (Romans 7:19).. We speck here from spiritual grounds not from the desires of our hearts as you do. You call such speech LIES. We don't say that you are lying we just know from the authority of the Bible that you are wrong..

    Has mormonism replaced the Lord Jesus Christ? In the Bible He is proclaimed to be God (John 1:1). He is called the everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6). The Bible DEMANDS that the Lord our God is one LORD (Deut 6:4) Jesus confirmed that He is the "I AM", the one and only true and living God (John 8:58).. The Lord, He who knows all things has told us that He doesn't know of any other God other than Himself (Isaiah 44:8).. He has told us that there has never be any other God form not before He and not after Him (Isaiah 43:10). God has told us that He has always been God, and will always be God (Psalm 90:2).. Does mormonism teach a different God that that? I won't go into the full doctrine of eternal progression here only to quote Joseph Smith on the issue.


    It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305)

    Just to show that such a teaching is official LDS church doctrine I will also show that in the LDS scriptures the word for the creator of all thing is called Gods not God..

    BofA 4:3
    And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.


    The LDS Jesus is just one of many Gods.. The Bible teaches that God is one Lord.. LDS Doctrine therefore denies and attepmts to replace the God of the Bible with the Gods of Joseph Smith.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 03-17-2014 at 12:28 PM.

  4. #179
    alanmolstad
    Guest

  5. #180
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    [SIZE=3]What then does the LDS Church do with the jack Mormons who haven't been to a Sacrament Meeting in decades?
    The church does what it thinks the person wants, based on whatever instructions the person has provided to the church. In many cases, the person just quits attending but doesn't give the church a reason why, and doesn't say what he wants the church to do with his records, so the church isn't going to delete his membership, because he hasn't told the church to do that and the church can't read his mind to know his intentions. The best and safest guess is that he wants to still be a member but doesn't want to attend church for the time being. The church just leaves things as they are until it knows more. It might send home teachers or visiting teachers or missionaries to check on the person, see if he still lives at the address listed in the records, and ask why he quit attending. Maybe his work schedule changed and he has to work on Sundays. Maybe he got hurt or sick and won't be able to attend for a while, but wants to start attending as soon as he is well. I knew a guy who got a heart transplant. His new heart required anti-rejection drugs, which meant he had no immune system, which meant he risked his life if he attended church, even though he wanted to attend. But for the rest of his life, he probably won't attend, and even letting visitors through the door into home was risky. If we had just ***umed he quit coming because he now hated the church and wanted his records deleted, we would have made a serious mistake, and he could probably have sued the church for doing something he hadn't requested. Imagine how many times this kind of mistake could occur if we just automatically deleted everyone who hasn't been to church for 1 month.

    Take my brother for an example. He stopped going to church when he was 17, at which time he began smoking and drinking, got his girlfriend pregnant, had to get married and has never had a desire to go to church. If you ask him what religion he is, he'll say....."I'm a Mormon" even though he has told me he doesn't believe in the Bible, or God. So, why hasn't your church kicked him out?
    Because we don't automatically kick out every member who is a sinner. If we did have a policy like that, we'd have zero members.

    Because he is part of your 15 million members even though the majority of them don't attend church but are jack Mormons like my brother.
    If he doesn't want his name deleted and hasn't committed a bad enough sin to get excommunicated, then there isn't much we legally can do, nor should we do much with his membership until he tells us.
    Has he requested that his name be removed? Even members who decide they hate the church and wish all its members were dead, may get to keep their membership if that is their wish, even though that hurts the church in some ways. Maybe that is why some of those members do that--they want to hurt the church, so they choose to keep their membership. Others want to keep their membership as insurance--they realize that even though they currently don't like the church, they may change their mind in the future.

  6. #181
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    use of the word " lie " is a personal attack and against the rules

    see - http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...-are-the-rules for conformation.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-19-2014 at 01:05 AM.

  7. #182
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I am not having trouble.. I like you hold that there are three Persons that are one God. Each person fully God but all three one God.. Cleafrly the same doctrine God has explained to us of His being from the very beginning.. IHS jim

  8. #183
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    [Erundur;153847]That's just bizarre. No one is forcing anyone to do anything, except the anti-Mormons who are trying to force us to change our resignation procedures. I'm willing to call that evil instead of silly if it will make you happier.
    It i mormonism that sat down the policies. All we ask is that the LDS church remains true to those policies.. You yourself said the policy was a thirty day turn around. Just stay to that and there is no problem.. Sit on the request for months or even years is an affront to your own rules. We had nothing to do with setting LDS church policies, when the lack of following them affects us we have the right to demand that you live up to your own rules..


    Yes.
    Then in your wisdom you are acting as a fool..

    Gee, it's a good thing you're not allowing this to descend into a volley of personal attacks, isn't it?
    yes it is because if I were to act like you this would be nothing more than a name calling match.. IHS jim

  9. #184
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    I just started this topic the other day...and as I post this comment the topic has received near 1,300 views!

    Clearly I underestimated the interest....

    From time to time I will keep posting what is the main topic for this topic in how to get out of the mormons..

    http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...ovalletter.htm

  10. #185
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    627

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    You yourself said the policy was a thirty day turn around.
    No, I said it was a cooling-off period; "waiting period" would also be accurate. Obviously the turn around time would be longer, since the request must be processed before the waiting period.

    Sit on the request for months or even years is an affront to your own rules.
    If you know of someone who's doing that, then you should take it up with them, but I bet you don't.

    Then in your wisdom you are acting as a fool..
    I really appreciate you setting the example of not descending into a volley of personal attacks.

  11. #186
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    [Erundur;154035]No, I said it was a cooling-off period; "waiting period" would also be accurate. Obviously the turn around time would be longer, since the request must be processed before the waiting period.
    You seem to be the expert here.. So what happens after the 30 days.. t that the day their membership files go into the Bishop's desk, so that no action can be taken in regards to the request? Or is that the day the request is forwarded to higher authority for action?

    If you know of someone who's doing that, then you should take it up with them, but I bet you don't.
    Personally I don't know anyone you re right but I have seen the testimonies of many.. Just type in www.salamandersociety.com/blacksheep/ and look for yourself.


    I really appreciate you setting the example of not descending into a volley of personal attacks.
    Actinging foolish doesn't mean a person is a fool.. We all act foolish from time to time.. That isn't even close to the attack on other posters here when mean spirited members call others liars.. If you don't think your post have sounded a bit foolish show me what you were really saying.. telling me that I am trying to tell the LDS church how to run it's resignation process was a foolish statement when it was you that explained the process.. All I asked was, why don't the Church leaders follow the directions set out in church's own policies.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 03-19-2014 at 06:59 PM.

  12. #187
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    is there some point to the "membership" question?

  13. #188
    neverending
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    The church does what it thinks the person wants, based on whatever instructions the person has provided to the church. In many cases, the person just quits attending but doesn't give the church a reason why, and doesn't say what he wants the church to do with his records, so the church isn't going to delete his membership, because he hasn't told the church to do that and the church can't read his mind to know his intentions. The best and safest guess is that he wants to still be a member but doesn't want to attend church for the time being. The church just leaves things as they are until it knows more. It might send home teachers or visiting teachers or missionaries to check on the person, see if he still lives at the address listed in the records, and ask why he quit attending. Maybe his work schedule changed and he has to work on Sundays. Maybe he got hurt or sick and won't be able to attend for a while, but wants to start attending as soon as he is well. I knew a guy who got a heart transplant. His new heart required anti-rejection drugs, which meant he had no immune system, which meant he risked his life if he attended church, even though he wanted to attend. But for the rest of his life, he probably won't attend, and even letting visitors through the door into home was risky. If we had just ***umed he quit coming because he now hated the church and wanted his records deleted, we would have made a serious mistake, and he could probably have sued the church for doing something he hadn't requested. Imagine how many times this kind of mistake could occur if we just automatically deleted everyone who hasn't been to church for 1 month.


    Because we don't automatically kick out every member who is a sinner. If we did have a policy like that, we'd have zero members.


    If he doesn't want his name deleted and hasn't committed a bad enough sin to get excommunicated, then there isn't much we legally can do, nor should we do much with his membership until he tells us.
    Has he requested that his name be removed? Even members who decide they hate the church and wish all its members were dead, may get to keep their membership if that is their wish, even though that hurts the church in some ways. Maybe that is why some of those members do that--they want to hurt the church, so they choose to keep their membership. Others want to keep their membership as insurance--they realize that even though they currently don't like the church, they may change their mind in the future.
    I would think 45 years is a lot more then a month. That's how long its been since my brother attended church. And hasn't anyone heard of a phone? This man you mentioned certainly could have picked up his phone and called his Bishop or someone to let them know about his health. That was a poor example. And I know my brother will not change his mind since he has already shared with me that he doesn't believe there's a God nor does he believe in the Bible. If anyone needs to be ex'd it is my brother. So it is like I've stated, your church keeps my brother on the membership rolls so he can be counted as part of the 15 million. Tell me, how many of those 15 million are active? And isn't it true that babies are now being counted too? I thought one had to be baptized and made a member before they could be counted. Maybe even members who have died are still being counted.

  14. #189

  15. #190
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    bump
    ..............................

  16. #191
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    I would think 45 years is a lot more then a month.
    Was there a set number of years that the father of the Prodigal Son used as a basis for no longer considering the prodigal to be his son?

    That's how long its been since my brother attended church. And hasn't anyone heard of a phone? This man you mentioned certainly could have picked up his phone and called his Bishop or someone to let them know about his health.
    He did let us know about his condition, either when we called him or paid a visit to meet him and try to get to know him, or he called us.

    And I know my brother will not change his mind since he has already shared with me that he doesn't believe there's a God nor does he believe in the Bible.
    Paul changed his mind about Christ after years of probably thinking that he would never change his mind.

    If anyone needs to be ex'd it is my brother.
    If your brother wants his name off the membership rolls, what is stopping him? Hasn't he heard of a phone?

    So it is like I've stated, your church keeps my brother on the membership rolls so he can be counted as part of the 15 million.
    I am skeptical. Keeping inactive members on the rolls hurts the church in a number of ways.

    And isn't it true that babies are now being counted too?
    TMK, they are not counted as members of the church--only as members of a household. Who told you that rumor about "now" the policy has changed?

    I thought one had to be baptized and made a member before they could be counted.
    That is the policy, to my knowledge. And I am fairly knowledgeable about this stuff.

    Maybe even members who have died are still being counted.
    If we are engaging in unprincipled wild speculation, then maybe pet canaries are being counted, too.
    And aliens.

  17. #192
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    [Phoenix;154748]Was there a set number of years that the father of the Prodigal Son used as a basis for no longer considering the prodigal to be his son?
    Terrible comparison.. Most people that resign their membership never resign from being children of God.. That makes me think that you see the LDS church as standing in the place of God.. So just where in His name do you see The Father? A person can't be a prodigal if they never walk away from God..

    He did let us know about his condition, either when we called him or paid a visit to meet him and try to get to know him, or he called us.
    Which one? Don't you know? That makes me believe that no one actually Paid a visit. You don't seem to know it is was His call or yours.. I wonder if you are even sure if you knew about the man's condition..

    Paul changed his mind about Christ after years of probably thinking that he would never change his mind.
    Yes, and all it took was a personal visitation from Jesus.. Hummm seeing God, yeah that should be enough to change any ones mind..

    If your brother wants his name off the membership rolls, what is stopping him? Hasn't he heard of a phone?
    I know him.. He doesn't think the church is worth his time to resign.. Maybe he should be exed for apostasy. Not believing in the first article of faith should be grounds enough..

    I am skeptical. Keeping inactive members on the rolls hurts the church in a number of ways.
    What ways.. You don't visit or call unless some church discipline becomes involved. All I can see is those that don't believe in the church and don't see a reason to waste time resigning do nothing to the church other than artificially plump it numbers of members.

    TMK, they are not counted as members of the church--only as members of a household. Who told you that rumor about "now" the policy has changed?
    So all we have in rumor and opinion? Why don't you know for sure.. It isn't our church it's yours.. So what in the policy?

    That is the policy, to my knowledge. And I am fairly knowledgeable about this stuff.
    But since you can't show where this policy is and by whose authority children under 8 years old are not counted as members, you don't seem to know for sure..

    If we are engaging in unprincipled wild speculation, then maybe pet canaries are being counted, too.
    And aliens.
    I think you have the same authority to say that as you do to say that younger children are not counted.. Never Ending has decided not to post any more so I asked her if I could answer for her.. She heard your posting and agreed to the response.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 04-11-2014 at 06:16 PM.

  18. #193
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    bump
    ..............................
    You need me to respond to this bump? Why I had nothing I could really add.. IHS jim

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •