When truth changes.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Who decides ...?

You keep asking that over and over....
Clearly you don't like my answer of "you"

Im running out of different ways to say "you"


its like with the snow building up in my driveway...
Sure I can pray about it until Im blue in the face, I can try to blame the snow on God, or try to say that its someone else problem...etc,etc,etc,, but in the end, the final answer is that getting rid of that snow is "my ***"....

The search for truth is not a *** left up to someone else to do for us.
We dont do ourselves any thing to brag about if we leave all that "bible stuff' up to a church leadership, if we know that the teachings of that same leadership are wrong.

We have nothing to brag about that our church is 100% united in teachings if we also know that the teachings are in error.

we also see that error can take over a church because good men sit and do nothing,,,
|

So who has the *** of finding and defending truth?........guess who_____?

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Well.....I have posted about 50Million words answering your questions in a manner I felt at the time was enlightened....

So.....I gave it a good try..

No worries. If you could point out where you specifically said how two people who came to different conclusions could decide who was right that would be awesome. You do agree that two different people who hold different outcomes can both have truth, right?

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

You keep asking that over and over....
Clearly you don't like my answer of "you"

Im running out of different ways to say "you"

Ok. Then am I correct in saying you don't believe in absolute truth? You believe truth is whatever a person decides it to be?

[RealFakeHair]

The Holy Ghost, doesn't give two side of the truth. The Holy Bible gives us the truth, it is up to us to believe it or not.
There is Biblical truth, and then there is opinion. Seeing my opinion is the only one worth typing about I see no need to conjure up less of the truth.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Ok. Then am I correct in saying you don't believe in absolute truth? You believe truth is whatever a person decides it to be?

nah,,,,thats getting too psychosocialogical...LOL

I think truth is whatever is true, and leave it at that....

Let the big-brains deal with the "absolute truth"

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

nah,,,,thats getting too psychosocialogical...LOL

I think truth is whatever is true, and leave it at that....

Let the big-brains deal with the "absolute truth"

You didn't have to mention me.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

nah,,,,thats getting too psychosocialogical...LOL

I think truth is whatever is true, and leave it at that....

Let the big-brains deal with the "absolute truth"

It really isn't that difficult. :-) Suppose you say the sun revolves around the earth and I say the earth revolves around the sun... we both can't be right, right?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

...how two people who came to different conclusions could decide who was right ?

What we have God's word on , is that if we search for Him we will find him.

So we know we are instructed to do the searching...(some people miss that point)

And, being "united in Christ" with the Christian church or with a friend who is with you in a bible Study (like you and I are in right now) does not mean you had to stop thinking for yourself.

It means that when you and I gather in this search for the true Jesus of the bible, that this very same Jesus has promised that he stands with us...even if on this road we take a few wrong paths that just loop around going no where...

Jesus is not in a hurry.
Jesus does not have another meeting to get to....Jesus is not under pressure to hurry us along.
He will allow us to take all the time we need.


We dont have to worry that we end this within the next hour with a weird 'joint statement" that we both can agree to being 1/2 of what you think and 1/2 of what i think.

But we have God's word that if we search for Him, we will find Him.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

It really isn't that difficult. :-) Suppose you say the sun revolves around the earth and I say the earth revolves around the sun... we both can't be right, right?

see post #33 for my answer, (same answer to same question)

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What we have God's word on , is that if we search for Him we will find him.

So we know we are instructed to do the searching...(some people miss that point)

And, being "united in Christ" with the Christian church or with a friend who is with you in a bible Study (like you and I are in right now) does not mean you had to stop thinking for yourself.

It means that when you and I gather in this search for the true Jesus of the bible, that this very same Jesus has promised that he stands with us...even if on this road we take a few wrong paths that just loop around going no where...

Jesus is not in a hurry.
Jesus does not have another meeting to get to....Jesus is not under pressure to hurry us along.
He will allow us to take all the time we need.

Sorry, but this is where you are wrong. Jesus said, "Now is the accepted time, behold, now is the day of salvation."
We are not guaranteed of tomorrow.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Sorry, but this is where you are wrong. Jesus said, "Now is the accepted time, behold, now is the day of salvation."
We are not guaranteed of tomorrow.

Me?....wrong?
(if I had a dime...)


My point is that salvation can come now,,,but it does not need to be forced.
The Holy Spirit is a gentleman.

He does not kick in the door to our hearts.
He does not force us to believe.

Rather the Lord stands at the door and knocks.

Today any man could believe, and thus would be a great day of salvation.

But tomorrow works for the Lord too......

I once was in a childrens summer Bible camp.
And there was this whole push to get people to step forward and give their hearts to jesus....

I watched a lot of kids feel very pressured to go forward, just to get the people from pestering them mostly.
from that time on I have learned that it's best to say what needs to be said, then be ready to answer questions.
but the moment we try to push "getting saved" on to others as if we were in the final 2 min of a football game we do them no favors.

The Spirit will show them when its time....not my wrist watch.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Me?....wrong?


My point is that salvation can come now,,,but it does not need to be forced.
The Holy Spirit is a gentleman.

He does not kick in the door to our hearts.
He does not force us to believe.

Rather the Lord stands at the door and knocks.

Today you could believe, and thus would be a great day of salvation.

But tomorrow works for the Lord too......

What! Tomorrow is Sa****ay, its the weekend, I'll start Monday.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What we have God's word on , is that if we search for Him we will find him.

So we know we are instructed to do the searching...(some people miss that point)

And, being "united in Christ" with the Christian church or with a friend who is with you in a bible Study (like you and I are in right now) does not mean you had to stop thinking for yourself.

It means that when you and I gather in this search for the true Jesus of the bible, that this very same Jesus has promised that he stands with us...even if on this road we take a few wrong paths that just loop around going no where...

Jesus is not in a hurry.
Jesus does not have another meeting to get to....Jesus is not under pressure to hurry us along.
He will allow us to take all the time we need.


We dont have to worry that we end this within the next hour with a weird 'joint statement" that we both can agree to being 1/2 of what you think and 1/2 of what i think.

But we have God's word that if we search for Him, we will find Him.

Alright, I have your answer now. Thanks. We do differ on this as I believe there is such a thing as absolute truth.

Thanks for the discussion. I believe we were looking at the questions just a little differently and that was reflected in the answers we gave.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Alright, I have your answer now. Thanks. We do differ on this as I believe there is such a thing as absolute truth.

Thanks for the discussion. I believe we were looking at the questions just a little differently and that was reflected in the answers we gave.

Great, now if we can only get you to accept the absolute truth. Wow this Thread can be closed now.

[alanmolstad]

ok
I will wait for any future questions and comments on this issue.

[alanmolstad]

so.......Um.....where did everyone go then?

(you can post too TheWay, it's friday, Im in a good mood....the week p***ed and no one was killed and i cant get sued)

[alanmolstad]

shhh...never is going to post

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What we have God's word on , is that if we search for Him we will find him.

So we know we are instructed to do the searching...(some people miss that point)

And, being "united in Christ" with the Christian church or with a friend who is with you in a bible Study (like you and I are in right now) does not mean you had to stop thinking for yourself.

It means that when you and I gather in this search for the true Jesus of the bible, that this very same Jesus has promised that he stands with us...even if on this road we take a few wrong paths that just loop around going no where...

Jesus is not in a hurry.
Jesus does not have another meeting to get to....Jesus is not under pressure to hurry us along.
He will allow us to take all the time we need.


We dont have to worry that we end this within the next hour with a weird 'joint statement" that we both can agree to being 1/2 of what you think and 1/2 of what i think.

But we have God's word that if we search for Him, we will find Him.

alan, what we all can agree on here is this, there are no two people who when asking God to show them the truth will receive the same answer. Someone within the LDS Church can pray and tell everyone that YES! I received the truth from God after much prayer and even fasting. A Christian needing an answer can pray and they too will say, YES! I received an answer from God and know that I received the truth. With that said, how then can anyone know who has truly received the truth? As I said this morning, if a person wants something bad enough, they'll receive the answers they're seeking.
What is the truth then? For me, it is knowing that Jesus is God, has always been God. He was born, lived a sinless life, taught ONLY His gospel, and was crucified, rose on the third day and ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father. That is the truth and ALL Christians believe this, if not then they are not Christians. We do not believe in extra Biblical revelations. We do not have prophets for our prophet is Jesus and we have been told in Hebrews 1:1-3, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." This is truth, no doubts about it.

[alanmolstad]

Paragraphs..........
its hard to read a big-honkin' wad of text....

[alanmolstad]

Alan, what we all can agree on here is this - There are no two people who when asking God to show them the truth will receive the same answer.

Someone within the LDS Church can pray and tell everyone that "YES! I received the truth from God after much prayer and even fasting!".
A Christian needing an answer can pray and they too will say, "YES! I received an answer from God and know that I received the truth."

With that said, how then can anyone know who has truly received the truth?
As I said this morning, if a person wants something bad enough, they'll receive the answers they're seeking.

What is the truth then?

For me, it is knowing that Jesus is God, has always been God.
He was born, lived a sinless life, taught ONLY His gospel, and was crucified, rose on the third day and ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father.

That is the truth and ALL Christians believe this, if not then they are not Christians.

We do not believe in extra Biblical revelations.
We do not have prophets for our prophet is Jesus and we have been told in Hebrews 1:1-3, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."

This is truth, no doubts about it









(I added paragraphs, and space)

(2nd edit addition - It's actually a very good comment to post on the forum, and as you can tell...I read every word several times...LOL...)

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Paragraphs..........
its hard to read a big-honkin' wad of text....

alan, I take offense at you changing my post! You are not a moderator here nor are you my English teacher! As you've probably noticed, I use a larger font size to make it EASIER for people to read and my post was not some BIG-HONKIN WAD of TEXT!!! Get over yourself. You come here and take over ever thread and then bring old **** from members who are over at CARM and also members who have been banned for life here! I've about had it. Maybe Jill has too?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by neverending

[SIZE=3]alan, I take offense at you changing my post!

where do you take it to?

[John T]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Which is why I really like that we are told to go to God with every question we have.

Too bad that you do not go to the Word of God, the Bible.

Any subjective experience is impossible to compare properly evaluate since you LDS believe in personal revelation (aka experiences of the moment) as the sole arbiter of truth.God's word, the Bible does not change; that is why it is the only rule for both the faith and practice of the Christian.

[John T]

Originally Posted by neverending

alan, I take offense at you changing my post! You are not a moderator here nor are you my English teacher! As you've probably noticed, I use a larger font size to make it EASIER for people to read and my post was not some BIG-HONKIN WAD of TEXT!!! Get over yourself. You come here and take over ever thread and then bring old **** from members who are over at CARM and also members who have been banned for life here! I've about had it. Maybe Jill has too?

I can understand your ire, but I do not think that Alan was really not being deliberately offensive,

His complaint is that when you change to a new paragraph, it is best to double space so that there can be more "white" between the text groups. It aslso helps when reading, also.

However, your complaint about Alan's playing "moderator" are quite justified IMHO. I have had my "tiffs" with him about that.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by John T

I can understand your ire, but I do not think that Alan was really not being deliberately offensive,

His complaint is that when you change to a new paragraph, it is best to double space so that there can be more "white" between the text groups. It aslso helps when reading, also.

However, your complaint about Alan's playing "moderator" are quite justified IMHO. I have had my "tiffs" with him about that.

Well, I can see that all you men stick together, thanks for nothing! I am still offended and find alan has no right to change anyone's post! I guess I will go away then since my way of posting is causing all you men problems. Poor babies!