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Thread: My daughter came into town yesterday.

  1. #51
    alanmolstad
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    ok,,,first...are all sins equal?


    the correct answer is "yes and no"


    this is because you have to define the context of things....
    "Yes" all sins are equal in that from the biggest sin to the smallest you can be sent to hell for doing....it does not matter if its even a very small sin...you burn.....see James 2:10


    but on the other hand.....



    On the other hand "No"

    God is not crazy ..he knows there is a HUGE difference between and murder and stealing a cookie.
    This is why Jesus does talk about a range of sins at John 19:11

  2. #52
    alanmolstad
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    now....what was that other thing i listed?....

    Oh yes...the fact that we know from the bible that the punishment for all sins is not equal....

    see Luke 12:46-47-48

  3. #53
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    You do realize, this issue is one of the talking points against Mormonism.
    .
    dont much care....


    here is the deal with Mormonism....

    the truth is, that this whole Mormon religion was just a thing Joe Smith invented to get young girls to tug down on his zipper.

    Now he did copy a lot of the book of Mormon from the king James. so there is going to naturally be a lot of things that I dont have any issues with.

    But the truth is that with so much of the Mormon religion simply designed to get guys laid (here or in the afterlife), that i cant help but think "what do I care?"


    I really only know the Bible stuff anyway.....if you ask me a Bible question I can likely find you the answer to it.

    But Im sure you can tell me all kinds of things about the Mormon "religion" (if you want to call it that) that I don't know.....

    So in my many long answers to the many questions and issues you see me make posts on,,,always remember Im going at this from a the point of view of a "Bible Student"....and not that of an "Anti-Mormon"


    The Bible I know......so thats what I try to stick to talking about.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 04-12-2014 at 12:50 AM.

  4. #54
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    well...there are many Bible verses to support my views....as you likely guessed as i only believe what i can prove with the scriptures......
    The thing is, it also supports the views of those who believe all sins are equal and will result in equal punishment (which is spiritual death). My intellect understands what you're saying and I do believe a "Just" God would have different consequences according to the severity of the sin. But, I can also see why people come away with the idea that all sin is equal and will have equal consequences (without Christ).

    This is a very good example of what I was talking about, in regards to varying interpretations and beliefs that Christians can come away with, from reading the Bible. Everything is not perfectly clear, as some claim. It's only "perfectly clear", if you pick and choose certain verses to focus on. From the whole, there are many contradictions and things that are difficult to understand.

  5. #55
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    dont much care....


    here is the deal with Mormonism....

    the truth is, that this whole Mormon religion was just a thing Joe Smith invented to get young girls to tug down on his zipper.
    I don't think they had zippers back then. Probably ****ons. At any rate, JS's sealings to very young girls and married women was one of the main issues that turned me away from the church.

    I don't know that it was Joseph's "main" purpose for starting this church, but it did (seem to) turn into something rather ugly, later on.

    Now he did copy a lot of the book of Mormon from the king James. so there is going to naturally be a lot of things that I dont have any issues with.
    Actually, there are only a few chapters from the Book of Isaiah, in the Book of Mormon.

    But the truth is that with so much of the Mormon religion simply designed to get guys laid (here or in the afterlife), that i cant help but think "what do I care?"
    Well, most LDS critics believe LDS are on a path to hell. They want to try and save them. Are you not concerned about that?

    I really only know the Bible stuff anyway.....if you ask me a Bible question I can likely find you the answer to it.

    But Im sure you can tell me all kinds of things about the Mormon "religion" (if you want to call it that) that I don't know.....
    Yes, I know a lot about Mormonism. But, I was only seven years in the church, so I'm not an expert. I did attend and work in the Temple, though.

    So in my many long answers to the many questions and issues you see me make posts on,,,always remember Im going at this from a the point of view of a "Bible Student"....and not that of an "Anti-Mormon"
    That's good. I'm glad to hear that.

    The Bible I know......so thats what I try to stick to talking about.
    I've been exposed to the Bible all of my life, but I think I'm just now really learning about it. I've belonged to a Bible study for several years, now, and we take it a chapter at a time. It has been a pretty in depth study. I started by reading the whole Bible through, in 90 days (that was a couple of years ago). I think I definitely bit off more than I could chew. I came away from that very disillusioned and frustrated. Studying it slow and steady has been a much better experience.

  6. #56
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    ok,,,first...are all sins equal?


    the correct answer is "yes and no"


    this is because you have to define the context of things....
    "Yes" all sins are equal in that from the biggest sin to the smallest you can be sent to hell for doing....it does not matter if its even a very small sin...you burn.....see James 2:10


    but on the other hand.....



    On the other hand "No"

    God is not crazy ..he knows there is a HUGE difference between and murder and stealing a cookie.
    This is why Jesus does talk about a range of sins at John 19:11
    So, if "God is not crazy", as you said, why would he punish everyone the same, of those who do not accept Jesus Christ?

    Your Bible reference is interesting...and perplexing, in a way.

    …10 So Pilate said to Him, "You do not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?"

    11 Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

    12 As a result of this Pilate made efforts to release Him, but the Jews cried out saying, "If you release this Man, you are no friend of Caesar; everyone who makes himself out to be a king opposes Caesar."…

    Jesus is telling Pontius Pilate that the only authority he has is what is given from above....this makes those who delivered him over to Pilate more sinful.

    So, is he saying God's hand was in what Pilate was doing...but, not in what the Jewish leaders were doing, thus making the Jewish leaders more responsible for their sin?

    I always thought God's hand was in the whole process. But, then, of course, this thing with predestination and God's sovereignty, brings up questions about culpability. How can one be responsible for something God is totally orchestrating?

  7. #57
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    I don't think they had zippers back then. Probably ****ons. At any rate, JS's sealings to very young girls and married women was one of the main issues that turned me away from the church.
    ...........he clearly was a horny little dog....

  8. #58
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Well, most LDS critics believe LDS are on a path to hell. They want to try and save them. Are you not concerned about that?
    am I concerned that all the Mormons are on their way to hell?....


    do you think I accidentally stop by here every day?

  9. #59
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post

    Yes, I know a lot about Mormonism. But, I was only seven years in the church, so I'm not an expert. I did attend and work in the Temple, though.

    You did the "handshake" thingy?

    if you did, I have a question about that

  10. #60
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Studying it slow and steady has been a much better experience.
    I like my old NIV study bible due to all the footnotes and connections and helps listed...so I can find all the places where the same idea or the same word is used at other places....

  11. #61
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    …10 So Pilate said to Him, "You do not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?"

    11 Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above;

    So many people ***ume that Jesus was talking about God the father with this comment.....

    Want to **** their minds?....tell them, "No it's simply talking about the Roman Caesar....you know the guy higher up than Pilate"

  12. #62
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Okay, I can't leave while James is still making stuff up.



    I never said that, Jim...and neither did Alan. You are simply not comprehending what is being said.

    Please, at least, read Alan's posts, if you couldn't understand mine (and NO you didn't understand...again!)



    Nice, Jim. You could type that and then put "In His Name"? If that was "In His Name" it was taking his name in vain.

    Maybe I had better stick around for awhile.
    Great then you see all sin and being equal. That none except the denial of the Holy Spirit is any more serious than another. That murder, and adultery is no more serious than lying? If that is what you are saying IT'S ABOUT TIME.

    Yes I said YEAH and did so in the name of Jesus.. For we are commanded to bring our differences to each other, then to two or three others, and then finally to the Church.. This was followed in your case.. But your attacks against the Bible and then individual Christians increased, they didn't diminish.. So as to the scripture I treat you as an unbeliever.. It makes me happy to see you wanting to leave the forum.. I have asked you to leave many times.

    A good friend of mine had a saying "We all bring happiness to this place, some by coming some by leaving".. You bring happiness by leaving.

    So I stick by what I first said here.. All sin, other than the unforgivable sin, are the same before a Holy God.. There is no difference in commission of murder and telling a little white lie.. Before Him sin is sin.. Lying is sin as I have shown again and again.. Not just a mean hateful lie, or lie meant to conceal other evil, but as it taught in the scripture "all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.".. All liars means those that tell little white lies to those who are involved in serious perjury. All such are liars.. It is a crime that left unconfused in worthy of ****ation. IHS jim

  13. #63
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    I'm not going to overlook it, when someone puts words in my mouth that I never said. Sorry. Came back to clear the record.
    Libby you have attacked the Bible as not being completely the word of God and yes I am speaking of the ancient history of Israel, Sampson pulling down the pillars, and Gideon choosing only the men who lapped up water like a dog to save Israel, even the genealogies of the patriarchs.. No words have been put in your mouth. You had been fully a nonbeliever for well over a 2 years.. Are you back? Is that what you are trying to tell me.. or are you still going to support mormon arguments that there is more than one God, and that have the biblical authority to appoint as many High Priests as seems good to them..

    I am not going to go through years worth of posts to point out all the accepting language you have held for mormonism. If you don't remember the acceptance you have given to mormonism even to the point of quoting Eastern religions as your authority for doing so, all I can say is, your memory is as bad as your bitterness for those that see the Bible as their uncompromising authority.. IHS jim

  14. #64
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    So many people ***ume that Jesus was talking about God the father with this comment.....

    Want to **** their minds?....tell them, "No it's simply talking about the Roman Caesar....you know the guy higher up than Pilate"
    You know what? I actually thought of that as a possibility! That's very interesting that you bring it up. Is that in the NIV study notes?

  15. #65
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I like my old NIV study bible due to all the footnotes and connections and helps listed...so I can find all the places where the same idea or the same word is used at other places....
    Yeah, we use the NIV Study Bible in cl***. I used to have one of my own, but the print was soooo small, it just wasn't practical, so I gave it away. I need to buy a new one in larger print. We have a bunch of them at church, so I usually use one of theirs for cl***. I do like the footnotes.

  16. #66
    alanmolstad
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    My NIV is about...um.....23 years old?.....Im not sure.
    I know its in bad shape...missing pages, covers gone, and a lot of marks and highlights.
    I have not went looking for a new one yet.
    A few years ago I noticed that there is a newer NIV Study Bible that has a different set of notes and ways to help students find the connecting verses.

    Although a lot of stuff is on computer now...I still kinda like the idea of holding a big, thick book when I do some real research....

  17. #67
    RealFakeHair
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    My NIV is about...um.....23 years old?.....Im not sure.
    I know its in bad shape...missing pages, covers gone, and a lot of marks and highlights.
    I have not went looking for a new one yet.
    A few years ago I noticed that there is a newer NIV Study Bible that has a different set of notes and ways to help students find the connecting verses.

    Although a lot of stuff is on computer now...I still kinda like the idea of holding a big, thick book when I do some real research....
    I don't think, my comic books are that thick, but I still kinda like the idea of holding them in my hands,

  18. #68
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    You know what? I actually thought of that as a possibility! That's very interesting that you bring it up. Is that in the NIV study notes?
    One time i was in a youth Bible study, way back in about 1975 i think, and we were looking at this section of the Scriptures, and the teacher was going on and on about how the "from Above" wording was pointing to god, and how God had given Pilate the power over Christ.....

    But I looked at this argument, and found it seemed to be an answer that did not really fit the context....

    The main point we take from this verse is that Jesus talks about the greater sin of this other unnamed person.
    Jesus says the the person who "delivered Me to you has the greater sin."...

    The cl*** was asked "Who is this person?"
    Many in the cl*** pointed to Judas , but my thinking was that Judas did not actually turn Jesus over to the Romans.
    the person who did that was Caiaphas the high priest.

    Now Caiaphas actually had authority, whereas Jesus points out that Pilate was simply carrying out the rule of Rome at the time.

    In other words, Jesus remarks that He knows that Pilate was just a middle-man.

    Now when you look at the sentence Jesus makes, you note that Jesus is pointing to something else too..
    Lets look at the verse again.
    ""You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

    Do you see the "for this reason" part?
    I think this is the key to understanding the thing Jesus was pointing to.

    What is 'this reason"?>......

    What do you think it is?

  19. #69
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    One time i was in a youth Bible study, way back in about 1975 i think, and we were looking at this section of the Scriptures, and the teacher was going on and on about how the "from Above" wording was pointing to god, and how God had given Pilate the power over Christ.....

    But I looked at this argument, and found it seemed to be an answer that did not really fit the context....

    The main point we take from this verse is that Jesus talks about the greater sin of this other unnamed person.
    Jesus says the the person who "delivered Me to you has the greater sin."...

    The cl*** was asked "Who is this person?"
    Many in the cl*** pointed to Judas , but my thinking was that Judas did not actually turn Jesus over to the Romans.
    the person who did that was Caiaphas the high priest.

    Now Caiaphas actually had authority, whereas Jesus points out that Pilate was simply carrying out the rule of Rome at the time.

    In other words, Jesus remarks that He knows that Pilate was just a middle-man.

    Now when you look at the sentence Jesus makes, you note that Jesus is pointing to something else too..
    Lets look at the verse again.
    ""You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

    Do you see the "for this reason" part?
    I think this is the key to understanding the thing Jesus was pointing to.

    What is 'this reason"?>......

    What do you think it is?
    Interesting reasoning. Is it in your mind that God didn't appoint the Romans to their position over the land? Was this not even in His permissive will, if not His perfect will? And it is also your idea that the Sanhedrin was not an extension of Roman authority allowed by the procurator of Rome to give the conquered a semblance of self rule? But it was still operated through the authority of the Romans? But that is only how I see it.. I think either way you see it conforms to the scripture.. I have no problem with you holding that the Jews of the Sanhedrin turned Jesus over to the Romans.. Can you see your point that the Sanhedrin turned Jesus over to the Romans and not Judas. Can you see my thinking that Judas turned Jesus over to the Sanhedrin, the Roman authority? After all the Romans set up that council to give Israel the allusion of autonomous government.. Do you really believe that Roman control wasn't the real power of the Sanhedrin? IHS jim

  20. #70
    James Banta
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    I don't think they had zippers back then. Probably ****ons. At any rate, JS's sealings to very young girls and married women was one of the main issues that turned me away from the church.

    I don't know that it was Joseph's "main" purpose for starting this church, but it did (seem to) turn into something rather ugly, later on.
    It wasn't "Later on" by 1833 Smith made it first moves on Fanny Alger.. Just two years after the cult was officially organized.. That is hardly later on.. At the time Smith took her as a "Wife" she was just 16 years old while Smith was 28.. He started off in pedophilia and allowed his lust to extend to any woman who would allow his attentions even if it took some fast taking and dragging God into his behavior.. He was a pervert and worse in using God to gain the access to women he craved.. This man was never a prophet he was a conman and a sexual predator..

    Actually, there are only a few chapters from the Book of Isaiah, in the Book of Mormon.
    What is a few to you How about 20 chapters? See below..

    Isaiah 2 2 Nephi 12
    Isaiah 3 2 Nephi 13
    Isaiah 4 2 Nephi 14
    Isaiah 5 2 Nephi 15
    Isaiah 6 2 Nephi 1
    Isaiah 7 2 Nephi 17
    Isaiah 8 2 Nephi 18
    Isaiah 9 2 Nephi 19
    Isaiah 10 2 Nephi 20
    Isaiah 11 2 Nephi 21
    Isaiah 12 2 Nephi 22
    Isaiah 13 2 Nephi 23
    Isaiah 14 2 Nephi 24
    Isaiah 48 1 Nephi 20
    Isaiah 49 1 Nephi 21
    Isaiah 50 2 Nephi 7
    Isaiah 51 2 Nephi 8
    Isaiah 52 3 Nephi 20
    Isaiah 53 Mosiah 14
    Isaiah 54 3 Nephi 22

    This isn't a list generated by some Anti-mormon organization this is from http://www.mormonhandbook.com.. That is a very pro-LDS site..

    Well, most LDS critics believe LDS are on a path to hell. They want to try and save them. Are you not concerned about that?
    Since there is no salvation found in the worship of false Gods. There is no salvation in mormonism.. The believe that God is a glorified man that became a god through His own efforts in keeping all his gods laws and preforming all his gods ordinances. He is nothing more than a man that became a god.. You know that the Bible teaches that God has been eternally God, That He is NOT A MAN.. That He is invisible God of whom Jesus is the tangible image.. Is not the worship of false Gods, no matter who invents them, the "Path to hell"?

    Yes, I know a lot about Mormonism. But, I was only seven years in the church, so I'm not an expert. I did attend and work in the Temple, though.
    Sadly I was in the church a bit longer than that.. I wish I could transfer all I gave then to a Christian charity.. Maybe some real good could be done with those funds. It is clear that mormonism is far more concerned with the dead and doing temple work for them than it is anything else. I would like to see what monies God has given me to be steward of used to help the living..

    I've been exposed to the Bible all of my life, but I think I'm just now really learning about it. I've belonged to a Bible study for several years, now, and we take it a chapter at a time. It has been a pretty in depth study. I started by reading the whole Bible through, in 90 days (that was a couple of years ago). I think I definitely bit off more than I could chew. I came away from that very disillusioned and frustrated. Studying it slow and steady has been a much better experience.
    There is a huge difference between Reading God's word and studying it.. I believe that both should be directed by the Holy Spirit and not by the order they are set withing the record.. All new-ish believers should always start in the Gospel of John. Then they should read Romans.. After all Romans was written directly to Gentile believers.. But you can do it your way and start in Genesis and WORK your way to the Revelation. I will do both my reading and my study as He directs me.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 04-13-2014 at 09:59 AM.

  21. #71
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Interesting reasoning. Is it in your mind that God didn't appoint the Romans to their position over the land? ......
    As far as i know, the "authority" that Jesus is talking about, comes from Rome.....its from Caesar.


    That is the point Jesus is making when he compares this guy to the other guy.....

  22. #72
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    ...... Was this not even in His permissive will, if not His perfect will?
    I dont think Jesus was talking about that stuff at all......

    jesus was making a point in comparing the culpability of two men....Pilate compared to Caiaphas.

  23. #73
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    And it is also your idea that the Sanhedrin was not an extension of Roman authority allowed by the procurator of Rome to give the conquered a semblance of self rule?
    thats a long question...LOL

    I believe the main point Jesus is making is the "for this reason" part of the verse......

  24. #74
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Can you see my thinking that Judas turned Jesus over to the Sanhedrin, the Roman authority? After all the Romans set up that council to give Israel the allusion of autonomous government.. Do you really believe that Roman control wasn't the real power of the Sanhedrin? IHS jim


    Thats a long question...

    What i can see is that Jesus was turning to the guy who just said that he had the "authority" over life and death of him...and Jesus was pointing out that while Pilate is still a guilty party in the murder of an innocent man, his blame is less due to the fact that Pilate was just carrying out Roman law as he had been charged to do by Rome.
    So Jesus is calling Pilate a "middle-man", whereas Caiaphas was simply out to kill Jesus for being Jesus.

    Jesus is telling Pilate, "Your authority?..you dont have any real authority, your so-called 'authority' is actually someone else's"
    This is the reason Jesus was more or less telling Pilate that he was kinda "off the hook" for the blame in killing a known innocent men.



    this is the "For this reason" that is key to understanding the point Jesus is making to Pilate, and why Pilate heard this and right away tried to let Jesus go free.....


    Jesus is also saying that Caiaphas has more blame in this murder of an innocent men.
    Caiaphas is not a middle-man in this story...

  25. #75
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Ok....if that is all over now ?....then I think I might see a topic here worth posting on....
    No not as long as she is still here teaching the world that mormonism is a wonderful way to God.. I will call her every time something erred come out of her mind and onto the forum.. IHS jim

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