My daughter came into town yesterday.

[James Banta]

This makes the second time I have seen her in 5 years.. We had a great visit.. One thing we talked about was sin.. That before a Holy God Sin is Sin.. Whether it be murder, adultery, or lying, Sin is Sin and will all have the same result, spiritual death in the Lake of Fire.. My son in law a man new to the Church had the same thinking on the subject as I have seem here from the LDS and those that comfort the LDS in their error.. That there are levels of sin.. My daughter and I agreed that there is that one penalty for sin and it makes no difference what the sin is, it is all rebellion against God.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

My daughter and I agreed that there is that one penalty for sin and it makes no difference what the sin is, it is all rebellion against God.. IHS jim

Maybe you could explain a couple of things.

1. Is it rebellion against God if you aren't the one doing the sin? From other posts, I've gathered that you believe that SIN is the cause of sin, whatever that means. I still don't understand that.

2. Where does a Christian's responsibility lie in knocking sin out of their lives? I've also gathered that it sure seems that a Christian is not responsible for the sin that remains in their life. Is this correct?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Maybe you could explain a couple of things.

1. Is it rebellion against God if you aren't the one doing the sin? From other posts, I've gathered that you believe that SIN is the cause of sin, whatever that means. I still don't understand that.

2. Where does a Christian's responsibility lie in knocking sin out of their lives? I've also gathered that it sure seems that a Christian is not responsible for the sin that remains in their life. Is this correct?

Christians, do not knock out any sin. The flesh just wont let us. Only with the help of the Holy Ghost of the Holy Bible can a christian fight against the evil of Satan, Joseph Smith, or Jim Jones, or Obama.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Maybe you could explain a couple of things.

1. Is it rebellion against God if you aren't the one doing the sin? From other posts, I've gathered that you believe that SIN is the cause of sin, whatever that means. I still don't understand that.

2. Where does a Christian's responsibility lie in knocking sin out of their lives? I've also gathered that it sure seems that a Christian is not responsible for the sin that remains in their life. Is this correct?

Do you often have this much trouble understanding the scripture? The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul tells us that:

Romans 7:17-20
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

You can say you don't understand this teaching from now until judgment day, and therefore say that is isn't the truth.. But that doesn't change the FACT that the scripture teaches that it is no longer jim that sins "but sin that dwelleth in" jim that does it..

It is the Christians duty to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in HIS *** of sanctifying the Church.. The word of God tells us who's responsibility it is to carry out that ***..

1. John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
2. Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word
3. 1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly...
4. Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

By the Bible I would say that our sanctification is accomplished by God, by His death on the cross or though His word preserved for us in the Bible..What is left for us to do? Only to cooperate with Him through Faith..IHS jim

[Libby]

Do you really believe that you are no longer responsible for your sins, James? That, it is not "you" who sins, but some THING that sins against your will?

If that's true, you are no longer responsible for your sins and have no need of Jesus.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Libby

Do you really believe that you are no longer responsible for your sins, James? That, it is not "you" who sins, but some THING that sins against your will?
.

remember the words of Paul?......he addressed your question

[Libby]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

remember the words of Paul?......he addressed your question

I don't have a question, Alan. I'm very familiar with the Bible. Just think James is not explaining it well. He's too busy being hyper-condescending (as usual). But, that's okay, he's "forgiven".

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

I don't have a question, Alan. I'm very familiar with the Bible. Just think James is not explaining it well. He's too busy being hyper-condescending (as usual). But, that's okay, he's "forgiven".

You are still inventing your own "gospel" that will somehow holds that Jesus paid the full penalty for all sin while you can still hold the sinner responsible. And if I quote the scripture that tells us that Jesus became sin in the place of all who believe and He has given all those His righteousness, you call it confusing, hard to understand? If it is so, why can't you just believe Him and accept it?

Yes Libby I am forgiven.. I was helplessly lost in sin and I called on Jesus and He kept His word and saved me, cleansing me from all my sin.. All, not just what I had done up to that time, but all of it.. It was a mighty pile of filth but He dealt with it.. It is all gone because of HIM.. In my posts to you I gave mostly scripture.. You have yet to confirm agreement to that sacred message.. But I have seen what you have said in the past about the Bible.. You doubts that it is all God's word.. Your doubts that it was divinely inspired, your doubts that Jesus (God) is capable of seeing to it that His word, the message He wants mankind to have, is the same today as the day His apostles and prophets first recorded it.. I am sorry for that.. I will pray for you.. IHS jim

[Libby]

you call it confusing, hard to understand?

Nope, never said that. I wish you would read more carefully, James.

I said, there are many different interpretations of the Bible (and, there are). I didn't say that I, personally, found it difficult to understand...nor am I "confused". Not at all.

I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. My hope and salvation is in him. Always has been, always will be.

You can pray for me, if you like, but if you're praying for my "salvation"..that is done.

I'll pray for you, as well. For better understanding. ;-)

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

Nope, never said that. I wish you would read more carefully, James.

I said, there are many different interpretations of the Bible (and, there are). I didn't say that I, personally, found it difficult to understand...nor am I "confused". Not at all.

I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. My hope and salvation is in him. Always has been, always will be.

You can pray for me, if you like, but if you're praying for my "salvation"..that is done.

I'll pray for you, as well. For better understanding. ;-)

I don't believe that you are lying here. I count it to a poor memory.. You have said that there are parts of the OT mostly that deal with the history of Israel that aren't God's word.. I guess you have forgotten that post from a few years ago.. Yes I have prayed for your understanding. I have placed you in the hand of the mighty God, the everlasting Father (Jesus), to deal with your salvation.. I have real doubts but God be the judge.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I don't believe that you are lying here. I count it to a poor memory.. You have said that there are parts of the OT mostly that deal with the history of Israel that aren't God's word.. I guess you have forgotten that post from a few years ago.. Yes I have prayed for your understanding. I have placed you in the hand of the mighty God, the everlasting Father (Jesus), to deal with your salvation.. I have real doubts but God be the judge.. IHS jim

I guess you have forgotten that salvation is in Jesus Christ...not, in one's interpretation of the Old Testament.

My understanding of the O.T. is "in progress"....I do not have a perfect understanding. My understanding is not perfect, but one thing I know for certain, is that my salvation is in Jesus Christ. Everything else is an ongoing work in progress.

I appreciate that you allow God to be the judge. I'm sure he appreciates it, as well. (just teasing - so don't go off all serious on me! )

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Libby

I guess you have forgotten that salvation is in Jesus Christ...not, in one's interpretation of the Old Testament.

you really think he has forgotten that eh?....

[Libby]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

you really think he has forgotten that eh?....

Seems he did (temporarily, at least) if he's asking about my "interpretations" (some time ago) of the O.T.

[James Banta]

[Libby;154706]I guess you have forgotten that salvation is in Jesus Christ...not, in one's interpretation of the Old Testament.

It wasn't me that interpreted the OT as mostly a history of Israel that wasn't inspired.. That was you.. In this exchange I have made NO interpretation at all.. Mostly I don't interpret any scripture at all I allow the Holy Spirit to do that ***..

My understanding of the O.T. is "in progress"....I do not have a perfect understanding. My understanding is not perfect, but one thing I know for certain, is that my salvation is in Jesus Christ. Everything else is an ongoing work in progress.

The OT and the New are about Jesus 100%. We have His word on it..

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Jesus is the subject of the whole Bible.. It is NOT "in progress", or "on going".. IT IS FINISHED.. If you are so Christian it is time to stand up for truth and question and show that error is not of God. If you don't find questioning someone else religion you really don't have to post here, But to those of us willing to call a viper a viper, a hypocrite a hypocrite, and a child of the devil a child of the devil we will go on showing the true Way, Truth, and Life.. We don't need someone to be in agreement with such against those that should be your brothers and sisters in Christ.. If you want to stay and learn more about who God is and what He has done you will be welcomed by me to do so. If you try to show me how holy the LDS beliefs such as works salvation, and polytheistic Gods are you may as will leave.. Such pandering to error is not welcome with me.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Again, James, you completely misconstrued what I said...and, as usual, went off on a condescending rant.

Where did I say anything about YOUR interpretation of the O.T.? No where.

And, perhaps, you think YOU have it all figured out, but some of us may still be open to learning. Patience sure doesn't seem to be one of your strong suits.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Libby

Again, James, you completely misconstrued what I said...and, as usual, went off on a condescending rant.

Where did I say anything about YOUR interpretation of the O.T.? No where.

And, perhaps, you think YOU have it all figured out, but some of us may still be open to learning. Patience sure doesn't seem to be one of your strong suits.

I have it all figured out, but sometimes I forget where I put it.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

I have it all figured out, but sometimes I forget where I put it.

Well, that may be my problem. I have become more forgetful as I age. I'm sure I did have it all figured out, at some point. ;-)

[James Banta]

[Libby;154718]Again, James, you completely misconstrued what I said...and, as usual, went off on a condescending rant.

Where did I say anything about YOUR interpretation of the O.T.? No where.

You said "My understanding of the O.T. is "in progress"".. I found that to say that your understanding is superior to mine.. After all yours is "In Progress" while I made it clear that mine is based in the Person of Jesus.. Sounded that way to me.. I still affirm that the OT, the entire Bible is all about Jesus.. Like we live and have our being for Him, not for us.. That is what I mean that you seem to have a lot to learn.. All things are about God, this world and everything in it are about Him.. If you read the OT with that in mind it will mean more to you..

And, perhaps, you think YOU have it all figured out, but some of us may still be open to learning. Patience sure doesn't seem to be one of your strong suits.

I will NEVER fully understand God.. There will always be so something that we can learn about Him.. He is infinite we will always be finite.. I do know that there is ONE GOD, and that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.. I know that in Him all fullness exists.. I have faith in His word to us. That He will never change, that He is the only example of a LOVE that is eternal.. That because of this Love He put on humanity lived among us, gave us His guidance, then to make us righteous gave up His life on a cruel Roman cross, shedding His blood so that those who would believe Him are made clean and imputed with His righteousness.. You seem to doubt these things and side with unbelievers as to even His power to keep His message pure for us so that we can have His words like men of old did.. You prove that you are not a disciple of Jesus by loving the lost more than you love other believers..

Alan and I don't see eye to eye on many doctrines but Alan loves the Lord His God and look to no other for his salvation.. He received his righteousness the same way I received mine and neither of us had one thing to do with it.. We agree on these matters. He doesn't question me thinking that I am silly for saying I am perfect in the righteousness Jesus gave me. While I don't believe you have to conform to everything I say here you are required to conform to the meaning of God's word.. That meaning is normally very clear.. Jesus said that we must be Born Again, born spiritually from above. That whosoever believes in Him will not die but have eternal life.. There doesn't seem to be questionable.. What else could it mean other than what it says? IHS jim

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

You said "My understanding of the O.T. is "in progress"".. I found that to say that your understanding is superior to mine..

James, if "my" understanding of the O.T. is "in progress" (which means, I do not understand it, in total), how in the world could that mean it was superior to yours or anyone's??? Unless, of course, you are at that stage, as well (which I certainly didn't claim)....and, you sure don't act like you have anything to learn. The problem I have with you is that you don't really bear testimony of Christ. You bear testimony of being a "know it all". Sorry, but that's how you come across. You act like you, not only know everything, but what you know makes you better than everyone else. You are arrogant and extremely condescending.

When I come across people like that (and Christianity is full of them) I usually end up thinking they really know nothing. People who are humble and really know Christ, are patient, kind and forgiving. At least, that's what I've read in the Bible (and experienced from true Christians).

[alanmolstad]

Libby....you might want to overlook things that upset you....

(Im just saying, that its one thing to be talking about different ideas and teachings...its another to catch yourself talking about only the other person personally.)

[Libby]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Libby....you might want to overlook things that upset you....

(Im just saying, that its one thing to be talking about different ideas and teachings...its another to catch yourself talking about only the other person personally.)

Alan, why don't you say that to James? He is the one who ALWAYS makes the conversation personal. Believe me, I am not the kind of person who normally does that, but James really needs to hear how he comes across, especially, if he's going to try and p*** himself off as some kind of "teacher". He is extremely offensive.

You can check this forum and see that I would much rather address issues and have done so, numerous times. I have started many threads and most all of my posts are on topic. I don't LIKE to get personal with anyone, but James has a very long history of saying rude and condescending things to me as well as to others.. and I won't put up with it anymore. If he wants to play that game, I will play it.

Notice, he doesn't like it much when he gets some of his own behavior thrown back at him.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Libby

Alan, why don't you say that to James? .

Because I ran into this post of yours that is really a clear sign .........


"The problem I have with you is that you don't really bear testimony of Christ.
You bear testimony of being a "know it all"....
You act like you, not only know everything, but what you know makes you better than everyone else.
You are arrogant and extremely condescending."

(and pointing to the other guy and saying, "He started it"?....that's what you are going with?)


I like to talk about topics, about teachings, about ideas..about religions, and salvation, and the Bible, and ways to do things...

I also suggest the use of the IGNORE setting if a person does not like the manners of others, as well as reporting the situation to the owner Jill.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Because I ran into this post of yours that is really a clear sign .........


"The problem I have with you is that you don't really bear testimony of Christ.
You bear testimony of being a "know it all"....
You act like you, not only know everything, but what you know makes you better than everyone else.
You are arrogant and extremely condescending."

(and pointing to the other guy and saying, "He started it"?....that's what you are going with?)


I like to talk about topics, about teachings, about ideas..about religions, and salvation, and the Bible, and ways to do things...

I also suggest the use of the IGNORE setting if a person does not like the manners of others, as well as reporting the situation to the owner Jill.

And, I would suggest, to you, that it would be wiser to address the person who, not only started it (years ago), but continues it, everytime I come to this forum (which is not often, anymore). Otherwise, it appears that you are playing favorites or trying to protect your "Christian" friends.

I also enjoy talking about religion, Jesus and his teachings and all other things spiritual...especially with people who know how to have a civil discussion and who do not always take it to a personal level.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Libby

And, I would suggest, to you, that it would be wiser to address the person who, not only started it (years ago), but continues it, everytime I come to this forum (which is not often, anymore). Otherwise, it appears that you are playing favorites or trying to protect your "Christian" friends.

I also enjoy talking about religion, Jesus and his teachings and all other things spiritual...especially with people who know how to have a civil discussion and who do not always take it to a personal level.

....."He started it...."


that's what you want to say eh?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

....."He started it...."


that's what you want to say eh?

And, you don't care, as it appears you are more uncomfortable pointing a finger at James, than at me? Have you ever heard the saying, "No Justice, No Peace"?

Anyway, enough of this. Time to move on.