Most excellent, Dude! Instead of using specious logic, you go to the effort of citing Scripture to refute my ***ertions
Originally Posted by
Richard
Paul recognized that persons could "fall from grace" if they rejected Christ by conduct inconsistent with the law of love—conduct injurious to the covenant relationship—such as murder, fornication, or sodomy ( Galatians 5:5—6, 19—21).
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 Envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Before we jump to conclusions, let's look at the CONTEXT of Galatians to discover what Paul was talking about.
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Notice two things in verse 6: the Gospel of Jesus is called "the Gospel of grace" and anything other than the "gospel of grace" is called ANOTHER (totally different) gospel.
Verses 7 & 8 calls that other gospel, a "perversion" and Paul actually says that anyone proclaiming anything other than what taught is ****ed. That also includes "an angel from heaven" teaching anything different than what Jesus taught. (As I read that, my mind goes to the statue of Moroni on top of Cumorrah, and I do not believe that that is in Scripture by accident)
Therefore, Paul is talking about a heresy being taught in Galatia.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Here is a repe***ion of the other verses above.
According to you John and verse 5, persons can accept the saving Grace only because God has predestined them to Salvation. So those who do not accept God's efficacious grace, or grace that accomplishes their salvation, fail to do so because God has decided in his arbitrary election to leave them to ****ation. So in essence, ****ation has also been arbitrarily predestined. Am I correct in stating this as Creedal Evangelism John?
I am unfamiliar with your term, so I will not comment. What is important is NOT what I say, rather what the Bible says. So if you do not like what verse 5 says, I suggest that you pray to God, asking him to make it clear. He did not stutter when he wrote it. I am NOT being snarky when I write that, but ask Him to reveal the truth of that verse, and I am sure He will.
[quote]This concept of prevenient grace makes God an arbitrary and evil tyrant. He could save all persons, but he has decided not to. This is not the God of love taught by Jesus. This view of grace makes God unjust, unfair, unloving, and loathsome. If God can save everyone, and he desires to save everyone out of love, then why has he decided to leave some persons to ****ation?
It just won't do to observe that we all deserve to be ****ed, so we should be grateful that God has decided to save some of us? As for me John, I cannot worship such a God, my Father in Heaven has given us all the gift of Free Will, no one excluded or predestinated to be arbitrarily chosen.[/QUOTE]
The topic of prevenient (enabling) grace is not the issue here.
Why are you calling God an "evil tyrant"? He does what He does because he is God, and He is right. You are elevating mere human reason over the all the attributes of God.
Are you saying in this sentence that there is something inherently good in humanity that would be pleasing to God? It just won't do to observe that we all deserve to be ****ed If that is true, it does not square with Scripture in many places. "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23 is an example.
You are arguing against Scripture, and that is futile. If you do not like what he wrote, ask God to clarify that, and I am sure that he will
The Elect are not Chosen by God, but the Elect choose God.
That sounds nice, but it does not conform to Scripture