What does James Chapter 2 teach us?

[James Banta]

James 2:15-17
If a brother or sister be naked, and d e s t i t u t e of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

This is the message of James. It is the message that the LDS keep throwing around as we the Christian here firmly cling to the teaching of Jesus that whosoever believes in Him has eternal life..

So what kind of example of caring for the poor is the LDS church? With less than 1% of their income going to help the poor they spend between 10 and 20 Million dollars on buildings dedicated to the salvation of the dead. The spend billions on a shopping mall in down town Salt Lake City, and now they spend half a billion to buy land in Florida (Salt Lake Tribune, November 08, 2013). Why so little to fulfill the teaching of the Apostle James, and so much on investments to gain even more income? Didn't Jesus teach us just the opposite

Matthew 6:19-21
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Maybe because mormonism is faithless even to the being it teaches to be Christ.. It's hard to be faithful to a God that just doesn't exist.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

So what kind of example of caring for the poor is the LDS church?

I bet it beats your church. Give us the stats on YOUR church's philanthropic accomplishments, if you really want to do the comparison. Otherwise, you have no basis for comparison, and thus no basis for whining. And should never have raised the issue.

After all, it's a foolish bully who picks on someone else without first making sure he's gonna win the fight.

Even though you started this fight and therefore YOU should be the one who first provides the info about your church, I will be nice and provide the following info about what the LDS church has been doing:

In 2008, the LDS Church responded to 124 disasters in 48 countries.[2]

Wheelchair Distribution is another program of the LDS Church crucial to helping those in need. Studies estimate that only one percent of the disabled in the world have wheelchairs. For the rest, being without a wheelchair means for adults that they can not provide for themselves or their families, and for children it often means not being able to attend school. By providing wheelchairs to those in need, the LDS Church hopes to help people become more self-reliant which is an important tenant of LDS beliefs.[3]

The Clean Water Service provides clean water and wells to people who otherwise would most likely contract deadly diseases because of the dirty water. It is estimated that one billion people lack clean water. The clean water program is designed to partner with local community agencies to provide sustainable clean water.[4]

The Neonatal Resuscitation program sends doctors and volunteers to areas where infant mortality rate is high. They are able to teach people in the area how to resuscitate newborns as well as provide simple medical equipment. This service is greatly needed as it is estimated that nearly 1 million newborns die each year due to birth difficulties. Up to 10% of newborns have breathing difficulties.[5]

The Vision Treatment Training program teaches facilities and medical personnel in developing countries how to treat preventable or reversible blindness. There are 37 million people in the world who are blind, and up to 75 % of blindness is treatable. The vision care program works with local vision health care centers to help treat and prevent blindness for the poor.[6]

In addition to these efforts, the LDS Church also has over 300 *** development and placement centers around the world. In 2001, the LDS Church began the Perpetual Education Fund which provides money to cover tuition and other school expenses to people in developing nations. As of 2007, tens of thousands of individuals had been given ***istance. So far this program has operated primarily in South America and Oceana. The LDS Church has also begun producing a nutrition-rich porridge named Atmit to help during acute famines. The LDS Church Welfare program owns farms, ranches, canneries, and other food producing facilities to provide temporary food relief for families and individuals. LDS Humanitarian Services frequently works with other charities and NGOs such as the Red Cross, Catholic charities and even various Islamic charities for which the LDS Church has produced halaal food.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDS_Humanitarian_Services

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And now it's your turn to dazzle us with the impressive contributions that YOUR church has made.

Or you can just admit that "Maybe Jim's church is faithless even to the being it teaches to be Christ.."

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

I bet it beats your church. Give us the stats on YOUR church's philanthropic accomplishments, if you really want to do the comparison. Otherwise, you have no basis for comparison, and thus no basis for whining. And should never have raised the issue.

After all, it's a foolish bully who picks on someone else without first making sure he's gonna win the fight.

Even though you started this fight and therefore YOU should be the one who first provides the info about your church, I will be nice and provide the following info about what the LDS church has been doing:

In 2008, the LDS Church responded to 124 disasters in 48 countries.[2]

Wheelchair Distribution is another program of the LDS Church crucial to helping those in need. Studies estimate that only one percent of the disabled in the world have wheelchairs. For the rest, being without a wheelchair means for adults that they can not provide for themselves or their families, and for children it often means not being able to attend school. By providing wheelchairs to those in need, the LDS Church hopes to help people become more self-reliant which is an important tenant of LDS beliefs.[3]

The Clean Water Service provides clean water and wells to people who otherwise would most likely contract deadly diseases because of the dirty water. It is estimated that one billion people lack clean water. The clean water program is designed to partner with local community agencies to provide sustainable clean water.[4]

The Neonatal Resuscitation program sends doctors and volunteers to areas where infant mortality rate is high. They are able to teach people in the area how to resuscitate newborns as well as provide simple medical equipment. This service is greatly needed as it is estimated that nearly 1 million newborns die each year due to birth difficulties. Up to 10% of newborns have breathing difficulties.[5]

The Vision Treatment Training program teaches facilities and medical personnel in developing countries how to treat preventable or reversible blindness. There are 37 million people in the world who are blind, and up to 75 % of blindness is treatable. The vision care program works with local vision health care centers to help treat and prevent blindness for the poor.[6]

In addition to these efforts, the LDS Church also has over 300 *** development and placement centers around the world. In 2001, the LDS Church began the Perpetual Education Fund which provides money to cover tuition and other school expenses to people in developing nations. As of 2007, tens of thousands of individuals had been given ***istance. So far this program has operated primarily in South America and Oceana. The LDS Church has also begun producing a nutrition-rich porridge named Atmit to help during acute famines. The LDS Church Welfare program owns farms, ranches, canneries, and other food producing facilities to provide temporary food relief for families and individuals. LDS Humanitarian Services frequently works with other charities and NGOs such as the Red Cross, Catholic charities and even various Islamic charities for which the LDS Church has produced halaal food.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDS_Humanitarian_Services

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And now it's your turn to dazzle us with the impressive contributions that YOUR church has made.

Or you can just admit that "Maybe Jim's church is faithless even to the being it teaches to be Christ.."

We have been through the numbers before. Maybe you need to understand there is a difference between giving alms and providing wages.. One is a gift and the other is providing a way for people to earn. Still it is confirmed that the LDS give less than 1% of their income to the needs of the poor. Where did the writer of the Business Week’s article get their information to make this claim? He draws from a single source: This fact sheet, published by the LDS church. Hardly an anti mormon source. Payment of wages is hardly providing for the giving that James 2 is calling the Church to involve it's self in.. Each *** offered provides the church with value in accomplishing what it is designed to carry out.. Food must be canned, packed, shipped and distributed. Cattle, and sheep must be cared for and brought to market. Private industry does this just as mormonism does and yet they don't see it as part of their charitable giving. Why now do you point to it as just that. Isn't your church doing just what for profit industry does in the ***s they offer?

Samaritan's Purse, a Christian charity, has been shown by independent audit to use 88% of their available funds to the work the Apostle James calls the Church to do.. My church, part of THE CHURCH that Samaritan's Purse works through, shares it's income with many different agencies such as Samaritan's Purse. Come to the Church and we will open our records to you.. I don't have them at my fingertips and I am nor longer in church leadership with full time access to those records but we have never denied access to those record to anyone who asked for access.. Still that less than 1% giving looms as a sign that mormonism doesn't live up to the commandment to show it's faith by it's works.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Any Christian church or LDSinc. Hold out any money or charity even if it is only 1% is guilty of not selling all that you have and following Jesus of the Holy Bible.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

We have been through the numbers before.

I don't recall you providing the numbers that show how much ***istance your church has given to the needy. So maybe we haven't been through those numbers before.

You are throwing a stone at another church. You should have already provided the numbers that prove that your church is "without sin" in this category, BEFORE you threw that stone. Otherwise, you're like the Pharisees Jesus wasn't happy with.

For you to mumble the evasive "I don't have MY church's numbers handy" excuse is unacceptable.
If you're gonna be the bully and start the fight by throwing the first punch, you should have first made sure you could win the fight. After you throw that first punch, it's a little late to start doing research on whether or not you can win.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

I don't recall you providing the numbers that show how much ***istance your church has given to the needy. So maybe we haven't been through those numbers before.

You are throwing a stone at another church. You should have already provided the numbers that prove that your church is "without sin" in this category, BEFORE you threw that stone. Otherwise, you're like the Pharisees Jesus wasn't happy with.

For you to mumble the evasive "I don't have MY church's numbers handy" excuse is unacceptable.
If you're gonna be the bully and start the fight by throwing the first punch, you should have first made sure you could win the fight. After you throw that first punch, it's a little late to start doing research on whether or not you can win.

Ok When I was a Deacon of the Church we gave 30% of our income to the poor.. That included giving to agencies like the Salt Lake Rescue Mission, Food For the Poor, and Samaritan's Purse. What I won't include here is the missionaries that we supported even though CBFMS (Conservative Baptist Foreign Mission Society; Now called WorldVenture) does a lot of the same kind of service in drilling wells, providing medical care, and even building schools that you included as part of the LDS giving to the poor.. But this is an ongoing outreach not just temporary help in time of disaster. Yes I know that your missionaries are required to do comp***ionate service, but Jeff these are 18-20 year old boys. CBHMS has professional builders in developing nations and yes in the US in blighted areas 24/7/365. CBHMS has a membership of just 200,000 in only 1200 churches, They all contribute to that effort of missionaries that see this service as their life long calling. All of them sharing 25-35% of their income to the efforts of caring for and reaching out to the lost make equal of better then those of the LDS. If you want these number verified come visit us as Sandy Ridge Community church, and visit the CB home page at http://cbamerica.org/.. Is that the Lord one true church? No, but part of the Lord's church gathers there..

The one true Church is the body of Christ. The sinners saved by God's grave though faith in Jesus.. That church meets in many local churches under the banners of many denominations, and nondenominational churches.. It isn't church membership that makes the Church.. It doesn't matter what you are or who you are, it's who's you are.. Are you Christ's, putting your complete faith in Him, or are you putting some of your faith in a prophet, a temple, a priesthood, your marriage, or any other thing whether or not you also include Jesus? It's 100% Jesus without any of the add ons or you are NOT HIS.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Ok When I was a Deacon of the Church we gave 30% of our income to the poor..

"We" refers to who? You and your wife? Or every member of your church? Or the church's leaders sent 30% of its takings to the poor?

Yes I know that your missionaries are required to do comp***ionate service, but Jeff these are 18-20 year old boys.

Yes. SEVENTY THOUSAND of them, out there in the world every day, every year.

CBHMS has professional builders in developing nations and yes in the US in blighted areas 24/7/365.

LDS has older missionaries who do the same--pro architects, builders, farmers, who retired and now have the ability to donate their knowledge for 18 months, at their own expense.

[James Banta]

[nrajeffreturns;149184]"We" refers to who? You and your wife? Or every member of your church? Or the church's leaders sent 30% of its takings to the poor?

The church's income.. Remember I said I was a deacon of the church? The Deacons are in charge of the church's property.. We controlled the Lord's money, paying the bills and directing the comp***ionate giving.

Yes. SEVENTY THOUSAND of them, out there in the world every day, every year.

Yes 70,000 children who have no skills at all.. They don't know how to drill a well, that don't know to build a house.. They can pick up trash, sweep floors and paint.. That is about it.. As far as doing something like Food for the Poor does.. They are woefully inadequate.

Through the years, the Hope for Haitians Board (Food for the Poor) has raised enough money to build 215 two-room homes with sanitation in Haiti (http://www.foodforthepoor.org/newsro...ti-092013.html)

The weak efforts of mormonism to respond to disaster, though laudable, can't compare to the work done by this one Christian agency to meet the call of the Apostle James to see a brother or sister be naked, and des***ute of daily food, and do a lot more than to say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; while not providing those things which are needful to the body. So what good have they done? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. These people who unite together to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, provide safe shelter, clean water and proper sanitation have indeed shown their faith to the world by their work (James 2:14-18).

LDS has older missionaries who do the same--pro architects, builders, farmers, who retired and now have the ability to donate their knowledge for 18 months, at their own expense.

I have meet several of these "pro architects, builders, farmers, who retired".. They were NOT pro any of these they were retired data communication specialists, and rental property managers.. One could set up a WAN, the other knew who to CALL to have things fixed.. Not exactly the professionals you named in your text.. Then again there must be some people who are called on missions after they retire that do know something useful.. But to direct 25 to 70 thousand unskilled children.. That I don't believe.. As far as doing it at their own expense, that means that they have built up wealth throughout their working lives in order to do these things.. Understand there is nothing wrong with that, but the people that work full time for agencies like Food for the Poor, Samaritan's Purse, and Mercy Ships receive much less than they could have made putting their skills to work for profit. What they do is ministry.. Their reward other then enough to barely hold their families together is found in the gra***ude of those they serve and the promises of reward given to them in the eternities by their Lord Jesus..

The LDS church provides less than one percent of their income to charitable giving, my little Baptist church, gave 30%, Samaritan's Purse gives 87.7%, and Food for the poor over 90%. Your attempts to show how the giving of mormonism can be compared to that of the Church. LDS giving in these matters runs a bit flat compared with the efforts of the Christian Church. The commandment of our Lord Jesus, so clearly spelled out in the words of the Apostle James, even through all LDS insistence that faith without works is dead, is shown to be better kept by the Church than it is in mormonism.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

James 2:15-17
If a brother or sister be naked, and d e s t i t u t e of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

This is the message of James. It is the message that the LDS keep throwing around as we the Christian here firmly cling to the teaching of Jesus that whosoever believes in Him has eternal life..

So what kind of example of caring for the poor is the LDS church? With less than 1% of their income going to help the poor they spend between 10 and 20 Million dollars on buildings dedicated to the salvation of the dead. The spend billions on a shopping mall in down town Salt Lake City, and now they spend half a billion to buy land in Florida (Salt Lake Tribune, November 08, 2013). Why so little to fulfill the teaching of the Apostle James, and so much on investments to gain even more income? Didn't Jesus teach us just the opposite

Matthew 6:19-21
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Maybe because mormonism is faithless even to the being it teaches to be Christ.. It's hard to be faithful to a God that just doesn't exist.. IHS jim

Just a little information from one stake out of many. I am the financial clerk for the stake so I know a little about what I speak. Fast Offerings year to day total about $80,000 with $63,000 being spent on families and individuals within the stake's boundaries. That is about 78%. The rest is sent to Salt Lake where it can be further dispursed. I would say becuase of the structure of the church, close to if not all Fast Offerings are dispursed to those in need. This does not include the thousands that are distributed through the Bishop's storehouse and Deseret Industries.

Also, ***hing for our stake is about $400,000 for the year so far. The wards and stake take between $80,000 and $100,000 for budgets in the local area. That means about 20% of the ***hing stays in the local area to pay for different activities and supplies.

I also live in an area that used to have a lot of farm land owned by the church. The products from these farms were to be canned and distributed to those in need.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Just a little information from one stake out of many. I am the financial clerk for the stake so I know a little about what I speak. Fast Offerings year to day total about $80,000 with $63,000 being spent on families and individuals within the stake's boundaries. That is about 78%. The rest is sent to Salt Lake where it can be further dispursed. I would say becuase of the structure of the church, close to if not all Fast Offerings are dispursed to those in need. This does not include the thousands that are distributed through the Bishop's storehouse and Deseret Industries.

Also, ***hing for our stake is about $400,000 for the year so far. The wards and stake take between $80,000 and $100,000 for budgets in the local area. That means about 20% of the ***hing stays in the local area to pay for different activities and supplies.

I also live in an area that used to have a lot of farm land owned by the church. The products from these farms were to be canned and distributed to those in need.

You won't hear from me as to the way my mother was treated to be "given" a little help with her groceries. How she was 72 years old with moderate Alzheimer's and still told to receive "help" she had to put in the hours the bishop though was fair to "earn" that help.. That is not seeing to the poor, that is providing a *** and forcing a person to work. That is slavery.. Such "giving can;t be counted as comp***ionate giving, it is merely wages for services rendered.. I said our church gave 30% of it's income as comp***ionate giving. I excluded all operating expenses. So that means, as the article states, less than 1% of your ***he is used as comp***ionate giving since it is then all directed by the different corporations that make up the ruling bodies of the church as a whole..

I applaud the DI, but being a federal protected workshop it is prohibited to make a profit to support anything outside it's own operational needs. I have been in it's doors many times. I see the prices they charge for their "goods" even if they gave it all away to the poor the value of that gift would be small even compared to it's budget to operate the workshop..

Every year the Salt Lake Rescue Mission spends millions just on providing daily meals to the poor. How much of their income goes to direct aid? OVER 95%! Stop adding your cleansers and floor polish in as comp***ionate giving.. None of these agencies add their operating costs as part of their budgeted giving to the poor.. Why did you add it in? Sanitarian's Purse doesn't even add in the fuel to deliver help in as part of their comp***ionate giving.. Hey they don't ask nonbelievers to aid in doing that either.. This is the work that God prepared for them to do (Eph 2:10), Not the Muslims, but the BELIEVERS IN JESUS..

All you have done here is to attempt to justify building lavish buildings that are condemned in your scripture.

Mormon 8:37
For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

And how much does it cost to build even a small temple, a stake center, or even a ward house? Millions? YES!! Your church does that and uses it's wealth to even buy land, hundreds of thousands of acres, to expand it wealth.. It has sure become a organization of greed. Taking the small ***he from a poor family and expand it's holding to far above anything that the first century Church ever dreamed of.. IHS jim

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

You won't hear from me as to the way my mother was treated to be "given" a little help with her groceries. How she was 72 years old with moderate Alzheimer's and still told to receive "help" she had to put in the hours the bishop though was fair to "earn" that help.. That is not seeing to the poor, that is providing a *** and forcing a person to work. That is slavery.. Such "giving can;t be counted as comp***ionate giving, it is merely wages for services rendered..

You may not like this but that is not my experience and I've been working with numerous bishops.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Your church does that and uses it's wealth to even buy land, hundreds of thousands of acres, to expand it wealth.. It has sure become a organization of greed. Taking the small ***he from a poor family and expand it's holding to far above anything that the first century Church ever dreamed of.. IHS jim

The building you worship in is far above anything the first century Church ever dreamed of.

So the mega-church that built 2 softball fields, 10+ soccer fields, indoor turf field, and many other amenities is using its money to feed the poor.

Your argument is full of hypocrisy unless you come down on every single church congregation that builds nice buildings, owns land, owns other businesses, etc. You sure seem to be a legalist in some aspects of the Bible but not in others.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

The building you worship in is far above anything the first century Church ever dreamed of.

So the mega-church that built 2 softball fields, 10+ soccer fields, indoor turf field, and many other amenities is using its money to feed the poor.

Your argument is full of hypocrisy unless you come down on every single church congregation that builds nice buildings, owns land, owns other businesses, etc. You sure seem to be a legalist in some aspects of the Bible but not in others.

All I got to add to this is. Chruches should not be in the business of business. However if anyone feels guilty you can send me your 10% and I"ll put it to good use.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

The building you worship in is far above anything the first century Church ever dreamed of.

There is really no comparison between the wealth that the LDS church pours into huge temples (and in many cases on prime expensive pieces of real estate--San Diego temple immediately comes to mind) and large pieces of acreage (Orlando farm as an example) and the local Christian churches that most Christian posters on this board attend.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by Billyray

There is really no comparison between the wealth that the LDS church pours into huge temples (and in many cases on prime expensive pieces of real estate--San Diego temple immediately comes to mind) and large pieces of acreage (Orlando farm as an example) and the local Christian churches that most Christian posters on this board attend.

You are right. Lump all churches everywhere that "fall within the circle of modern Christianity" and compare then.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

You may not like this but that is not my experience and I've been working with numerous bishops.

I have had my experiences just as you have.. I have been told on two occasions that it is just and right to see some efforts made by those who receive church aid make some effort to deserve that help.. Your experiences are just as anecdotal as mine.. So show me some definitive directive from the Brothern that spells out who deserves help and who doesn't.. I look at the explanation of this from Jesus. The traveler never told the Samaritan if he went to worship meetings, or that he paid a full t i t h e. He just saw the need and met it.. That was the example of true Christian giving and should be the standard.. No one should be outside the Church's comp***ion is receiving her help.. All that should be required in a call for help.. Will some take advantage? YES! That is on them.. But if we turn away from children living in a state like North Dakota and have no coats, the mother's lack of attendance at sacrament meeting should never be a reason to deny them such a minor gift as a coat.. I heard the Branch President tell the Relief Society president to make sure that the girls in question not receive anything of or through the branch because of their mother's lack of attendance.. Yes that is what James two teaches..

James 2:15-16
If a brother or sister be naked, and des t i tute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Can you point out the exceptions to making sure that a brother of a sister has clothing and food? But I see the LDS church requiring old people to work for the help the church "gives", and requires church attendance to make sure that little girls have coats in winter temps that seldom exceeded 20 degrees.. This goes to show me that the men who dealt with these people had no faith and are not children of God.. Make sure this doesn't ever happen in your Wards (if you can).. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Jim, did you vote for Obama for either of his terms as president?

Seems like he is your ideal leader for creating the utopia you want: Play Santa Claus, handing out other people's money and making the donors feel guilty if they want some accountability from the recipients of the free stuff.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Jim, did you vote for Obama for either of his terms as president?

Seems like he is your ideal leader for creating the utopia you want: Play Santa Claus, handing out other people's money and making the donors feel guilty if they want some accountability from the recipients of the free stuff.

My politics have nothing to do with James chapter 2.. I show my faith through my works.. My works are the works James call Christian to preform. They cloth the naked, feed the hungry,and tend to the needs of the orphan.. If you believe that The President is doing those things for the glory of Jesus then he would be a christian wouldn't he?

You seem to want to change the scripture so that it says "When you have done this unto the least of my brothern you must expect them to Fix your roof, tend your flocks, harvest your crops, and paint your house".. It's not so important to believe that you have done these things unto Him.. You ask the recipients to feel obligated for help. I thought even you believed that these things are from the Lord and His bounty, and not from you or your church.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If you believe that The President is doing those things for the glory of Jesus then he would be a christian wouldn't he?

Yes, IF I believed that Obama was doing ANYTHING for the glory of Jesus....

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Yes, IF I believed that Obama was doing ANYTHING for the glory of Jesus....

Don't you mean for the glory of allah?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Yes, IF I believed that Obama was doing ANYTHING for the glory of Jesus....

I am an American cons***utionalist. Neither a democrat nor am I a republican.. So explain to me again what that has to do with the facts of James 2? I see neither party keeping faith with Jesus.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

The building you worship in is far above anything the first century Church ever dreamed of.

So the mega-church that built 2 softball fields, 10+ soccer fields, indoor turf field, and many other amenities is using its money to feed the poor.

Your argument is full of hypocrisy unless you come down on every single church congregation that builds nice buildings, owns land, owns other businesses, etc. You sure seem to be a legalist in some aspects of the Bible but not in others.

I don't justify how other people, even other churches use their money. It none of my business.. I don't care if the LDS church spends 50M on a temple in Washington DC or San Diego California. I only repulse when they stand up telling the world how caring they are and then build such structures to serve mostly the dead.. Remember what Jesus said about the dead (Luke 9:60)..

As for Sandy Ridge Christian Church it is SMALL church.. A home on the east side of Sandy Utah that was converted to use as our church.. The sanctuary (Chapel) is the garage.. The mater BR is the church office, and the bedrooms are our cl*** rooms.. The basement is now finished as one large room we use for Jr church.. It is modest, extremely modest by LDS standards.. It isn't so much different than the churches of the first century that met in the homes of the members.. Yes this is the 21st century and we have modern conveniences like electricity, telephone, sanitation and running water.. But when compared with what the churches of the first century had to what the homes of the people of that era had the difference disappears.. Their churches were houses, my church is a house. In contrast the LDS buildings are the palaces.

Mormonism is in tune with the mega "churches". In turn with the rich Pharisees, in turn with the prideful Zoramites. I don't mind my church struggling to fulfill it's obligations. We always do thanks to the Grace of our Lord. You couldn't force me to join one of those mega churches anymore than I would rejoin the LDS mega church.. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

I don't justify how other people, even other churches use their money. It none of my business.....

I can agree with you on that point, Jim: How the LDS church spends its money is none of your business, and that means you have no business criticizing it.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

I can agree with you on that point, Jim: How the LDS church spends its money is none of your business, and that means you have no business criticizing it.

And when was the last time you saw me coming down on the spending of church's $$$ for extravagant temples? The only time it comes up is when the LDS church or it's members start thumping their chests in pride of the gifts they provide for the aid of the poor and desti tute. Stop telling everyone how generous the LDS church is and you won't hear another word from me about LDS stinginess. IHS jim

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by James Banta

And when was the last time you saw me coming down on the spending of church's $$$ for extravagant temples?

Hello, Jim? Who created this thread and started it out with

"So what kind of example of caring for the poor is the LDS church??" ??

The only time it comes up is when the LDS church or it's members start thumping their chests in pride of the gifts they provide for the aid of the poor and desti tute.

Jim, your duplicity and outright hypocrisy would make even Obama jealous. YOU brought up this issue and YOU ASKED about LDS spending for the needy. For you to now make the false accusation that by answering YOUR QUESTION, we were thumping our chests, is so dishonest that it is a sight to behold.

Stop telling everyone how generous the LDS church is and you won't hear another word from me about LDS stinginess.

Amazing. YOU CREATE THIS THREAD which ASKED about our generosity, and then you end this same thread telling us to stop giving you the answer.

Could the Pharisees of Jesus' day outdo that? I am not sure.